Hardest series to grade - even for TPGs ??

[TonerGuy]

Share your experiences.

 

Ive really dont collect difficult series to grade except for perhaps SLQs in circulated grades.

 

Ive seen coins that are graded by PCGS & NGC as VF35 with enough luster and meat to be XF40 or 45. Ive seen (what I though should be) XF40 coins graded VF30 or even less.

 

Even dealers seem to have a hard time grading raw SLQs. I see some dealers calling what seems to be F and VF coins VF and XF or even AU.

 

Its confusing to say the least...

 

What other series are difficult to grade and even the TPGs are hit or miss on them ?

 

 

[e1cnr]

I am not sure about TPGs, but I have a problem with buffalo nickels

[DKenny]

I would say Indian Head Half and Quarter Eagles and distinguishing AU and MS pieces.

[Mr. Smith Guesser]

Good question.

 

Not a series...But, I'd imagine that the hardest to grade would be world coins. Or whatever has been the least previously examined. I'm guessing that neither of the TPGs get to look at many Maltese dimes or Vanuatuan vatu pieces or anything like that.

[Roscoe-migration]

Been lurking for a couple of years and joined recently to grab something off the Marketplace board but had to respond to this.

 

IMO, Nickel coins of all series, especially buffalos have swings in grading as well as circ SLQs. And it's not just NGC. Seems like strike and wear get confusing.

 

BTW, Nice meeting ya'll.

[cpm9ball]

Welcome to the neighborhood, Roscoe! Pull up a rocker and set a spell.

 

I'd better get this in before Roger does. For me, the hardest series to grade is one that is less than 1/2" in diameter.

 

Chris

[RWB]

I suspect it varies with the quality of production, although a poorly planned design, such as the $2.50 and $5.00 by Pratt/Bigelow, certainly can be a major contributor to ambiguity.

[mikew148]

I am not sure about TPGs, but I have a problem with buffalo nickels

 

+1, particularly coins that have not been struck well.

 

Many MS Buffalo nickels, with a weak strike, appear AU to me.

[coinman_23885]

Indian Gold $2.50.

[coinman_23885]

I am not sure about TPGs, but I have a problem with buffalo nickels

 

+1, particularly coins that have not been struck well.

 

Many MS Buffalo nickels, with a weak strike, appear AU to me.

 

The key is luster and knowing the striking characteristics associated with each date. An AU coin will likely have luster disturbances on the high points and around the horn (although be careful not to overlook rub in the field). If it is fully lustrous, and then it is likely a striking issue, especially if it is one of the branch date coins from the early to mid part of the 1920s.

[rrantique]

Welcome to the neighborhood, Roscoe!

[jom]

I am not sure about TPGs, but I have a problem with buffalo nickels

 

+1, particularly coins that have not been struck well.

 

Many MS Buffalo nickels, with a weak strike, appear AU to me.

 

The key is luster and knowing the striking characteristics associated with each date. An AU coin will likely have luster disturbances on the high points and around the horn (although be careful not to overlook rub in the field). If it is fully lustrous, and then it is likely a striking issue, especially if it is one of the branch date coins from the early to mid part of the 1920s.

 

Buffalos are rather easy to find AU pieces once you get used to it. Just look at the higher part of the Buffalos read-end. On AU pieces there is a flatness or discoloration...like a plateau. Then again sometimes discoloration is from old holders ie "sliders". Not really true circulation.

 

I still think the $2.5 and $5 Indians are the ones that the TPGs (all us) have trouble with. Then add to the fact many of the dates are not very eye appealing makes for a tough go.

 

jom

[AHFreak]

Not that I have any experience with it, since they are not easy to come by, and not anywhere near my budget if I did come by one/any.... but I have heard/read that the early flowing hair coppers can be very difficult to grade. Between strike variance and die issues.... Apparently it is not uncommon for UNC specimans to grade in the VF range. I know of one early copper expert who had to send in an early copper like 7 or 8 times before it came back UNC. It kept coming back VF.

[PerryHall]

I would say Indian Head Half and Quarter Eagles and distinguishing AU and MS pieces.

 

Agree. The lack of a raised rim means even MS coins have some rub in the fields from normal handling.

[Nutmeg Coin]

Copper coins especially earlier and Colonial issues; incuse gold. Bust H10s.

[johnny9434]

small coinage and gold i have a hard time with. it is what it is.

[jpcienkus]

Interesting read. I have the most problems with Lincoln cents. I don't collect them so I don't study the coin. There appear to be many "elevation details" on the jacket, face and hair. When I view photos, I can't really tell if it's a intended feature or a light tick mark.

 

I'd also agree with the $2.5 Indian gold crowd. Difficult to judge.

[orifdoc]

Incuse gold.

 

I imagine the truly rare early Federal issues and esoteric series like certain Colonials can cause them a little angst. People are good at what they do all the time. I'm sure any decent grader can feel pretty confident about a CBH or a Morgan. Coins that they only see a few times a year probably require more thought.

[physics-fan3.14]

The beefaloes give me the hardest time. Circulated grades are tricky, but UNC grades are even worse.

[TonerGuy]

I am not sure about TPGs, but I have a problem with buffalo nickels

 

+1, particularly coins that have not been struck well.

 

Many MS Buffalo nickels, with a weak strike, appear AU to me.

 

Add me to this list. Though I have gotten very lucky with them. I just never know if the coin Im sending in for grading is an AU58 or an MS63. I just roll the dice. Out of 10, 2 have come back AU and/or cleaned. The rest were MS - with one a MS67. Even the dealer sold to me as an MS63.

[Roscoe-migration]

I think some of the comments on MS coins comes from the strike and state of dies in the buffalo series. You can tilt and catch the light and look for rub but if it's a coin that's more original tone and a little harder to see the rub or not a flasher I think more often than not they're discounted as AU or less, except the price of course.

 

Thanks for the welcome fellas.

 

 

[rockhobby]

For me, as with most of the folks who replied, it is buffalo nickels and 2 1/2 Indian gold. I really don't know old copper at all but from what I have read it appears to be difficult also.

 

Also welcome Roscoe.

 

 

Doug

[Tyler N.]

Very broad answer here: Proof coinage. I've had a few proof Seated quarters that looked almost identical in grade (to me). The TPGs had them a few points off from each other...

[PerryHall]

Very broad answer here: Proof coinage. I've had a few proof Seated quarters that looked almost identical in grade (to me). The TPGs had them a few points off from each other...

 

Rotate them under a halogen light and you'll probably see that one has more hairlines than the other.

[World Colonial]

Good question.

 

Not a series...But, I'd imagine that the hardest to grade would be world coins. Or whatever has been the least previously examined. I'm guessing that neither of the TPGs get to look at many Maltese dimes or Vanuatuan vatu pieces or anything like that.

 

I don't think the grading services are particularly consistent in grading pillar coinage either, even though in the aggregate the census contains a few thousand.

 

In US coinage, I have also heard that the Indian Head half and quarter eagles are among the toughest due to the incuse design.

[TonerGuy]

I would expect TPGs to have a hard time with coins they dont see many of.

 

I am more surprised by the number of people saying Buffs and some gold. You would figure they have seen them by the 1000s and thus be able to be fairly consistent with grading.

[World Colonial]

Someone mentioned large cents or early copper. Not a good grader of these coins at all but I know that the EAC has completely different (and stricter) grading standards than the TPG. I don't know if the grades are just lower or if the criteria these collectors uses results in a different ranking though.

 

Outside the US, collectors prioritize different attributes. A prior thread here mentioned the apparent different preferences of British collectors with "originality". I have also come to learn that non-US collectors have a completely different perspective of "market acceptability" with Spanish colonial coinage. Many "details" coins really have nothing wrong with them and I think the grading services are too harsh. Most have been cleaned at some point but that is probably true of 95% or more of them and there isn't much else to buy.

[Alan Glasser]

My personal experience is that early U.S. type coins are the most difficult to grade. This is a broad area, I know...but as a collector for many years and I spent most of these years collecting and "upgrading" for my early U.S. type set, weakness of strike issues in the early series drove me batty as far as determining grades. The ANA grading book lists many issues in which a particular years of early type coins (maybe 1793- approximately 1807) present issues with striking difficulties. I must have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours examining the ANA book, Photograde, Grading coins by Photgraphs and countless E-Bay listings of certified examples of early half dimes, dimes, quarters and even half dollars that literally are all over the map. I guess the ANA guide and others are now rather "past it" but in their day, I thought they were great fun with the ANA guide being my favorite (and I still use it when selling on E-Bay.)

 

Anyway, as if that isn't enough, grading MS 65, 66, 67 and so on in modern issues is another area in which I will receive no medals for accuracy. Glad I don't have to worry about THOSE grades in early U.S. type.

 

Alan in MA Musiccoins

[rrantique]

I remember the issue with 1795 coin Al. Welcome back glad to see your still kicking.