Venetian states gold qvar ducat 0

[Nutmeg Coin]

A dealer at a show had this Venetian states gold ducat coin originally sold at the 1947 ANA convention auction in Buffalo, NY. Lot #388. He said that the ANA in CO sent him additional details on the coin. Ancient coins expert Allen Berman was at the coin show and I walked the coin over to him and he seemed very interested in it but needed proof, records etc. as there are enough copies floating around to discourage buyers without absolute proof.

 

The additional description on the coin the dealer provided was "Renier Qvar Ducato Mint RB "Double Ducat". Italian States. Venice. Paolo Renier 1779-1780. Initials R.B. denote mint inspector Raimondo Bembo. Choice very fine as originally described".

 

Does anyone know the significance of this gold coin and why it is worth strong money?

[Angelo43]

Just got my Gigante from Italy and see no reason that the coin should get strong money since it catalogs at 350 Euro in the 2015 catalog. The double ducati description might make a difference but I have never heard of them. I collect Italian but not these coins.

[RWB]

It isn't. Just another "dealer" who wants a big profit from a little coin.

[Nutmeg Coin]

I had a chance to scan the images of the coin:

 

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/LzcSmWy.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/ALBZtYe.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2014 by Nutmeg Coin

[dadams]

got a bit interested in this one for some reason. All the info below was found online and I've tried to put it in some semblance of order.

 

Here is what I learned:

 

Italian States-Venice, Paolo Ranieri as Doge (1779-1789), Quarter-ducat

[in Christie's Sale 4701, Lot 431 the coin is described as "struck in gold to the weight of 2-Zecchini, 5.1 g" and as being "Very Rare" the OP would have to verify weight]

 

Obverse: A figure [st. Mark] sitting, and another [Doge of Venice] kneeling and receiving a standard [the gonfalon (the banner of the republic)] from him; legend, S.M.V [st. Mark of Venice] and the Doge's name as PAUL RAINERIUS D.

Reverse: A winged lion, with a tower and holding book of Gospels ; legend QUAR.DUCAT.VENET. [Quarter Ducat]

 

 

 

Of Course, (after much of the above) I also located an old eBay Auction of this very coin from 7/25/13 wherein the seller's description is quoted below in full:

 

We bring to auction the first appearance in a long time of an original Renier Qvar Ducato Mint RB "Double Ducat" (Technically, I believe, 1/4 Ducat).

 

Italian States. VENICE. Paolo Renier, 1779-1780. Struck in Gold. Initials R.B. denote Mint Inspector of Venice, Raimondo Bembo. 6.9 grams, 29 mm diameter. Very Rare. Choice Very Fine as originally described, by today's lax standards most would represent it as Extra fine.

 

This fabulous and elusive specimen has a pedigree: It comes with the original auction envelope that housed it as Lot #388 in the 1947 Convention Auction of the American Numismatic Association, in Buffalo, New York. This convention is famous for it's sale of the Sheraton Collection, built by the founder of the namesake Hotel Chain, and a partner of his. I don't know if this coin is from the Henderson-Moore partnership per se; or a different session of the auction. The good folks in the library of the ANA in Colorado Springs generously researched this for several weeks and sent me images from the actual print auction catalog, which I'm including here. I just missed the catalog itself by one month! It came to auction at Lake Books... for a real challenge, buy the coin then go look for the book!

 

The original envelope, in elegant handwriting, bears the following inscription: "DOUBLE DUCAT PAUL RAINER 1779-1789 DOGE, KNEELING BEFORE ST MARK / REV, LION STANDING 1, WITH BOOK AND CASTLE / VERY FINE VERY RARE / CAT $57.50." (Rainer's name has varied spellings in the literature.) Now, if you know anything about numismatic history, fifty bucks back then was a nice piece of change. For measure: A VF Chain Cent priced at $55 in an old Yeoman price guide listed today in the PCGS Price Guide at $75,000.

 

Do your research: You'll agree this piece is rare. There are no known mintage records on this variety. I have, for months, searched through several million lots from the auction archives of major houses and can only find two other gold coins with this nimbate lion on the reverse. These bear the more common initials "LAF" (Lunardo Alvice Moscarini), and both sold for five figures, in the $10,000-$15,000 range. This coin has "RB," which I discovered attributed in the January 1901 Spink & Son Numismatic Circular Vol 8-9 to Raimondo Bembo, the 1780 Mint Inspector. The Standard Catalog dates RB 1779, and other references put him at 1779-1780 and also 1779-1789. Current literature supports the earlier date range.

 

This piece has nice luster. A slight discoloration at twelve o'clock suggests to me that at one time, the coin was holed, as many of these were, and then subsequently filled. If I am right about this, the repair was done with skill, as letters are sharp and intact.

 

I am including both high-resolution scans and photographs in this description to depict the coin as accurately as possible. (My experience is that scans highlight the details, surface features, and flaws in coins; and digital photos give a truer representation of color and actual appearance/eye-appeal.) We are privileged to share this truly wonderful find, and hate to part with it; if it fits in your discriminating collection, don't miss this opportunity. You might not see a second chance this century.

 

 

References (in no particular order and not all of them either because I read through a lot, learned much about Venetian Ducats, and was actually a bit disappointed when I found the eBay auction):

Dictionary of Numismatic Names

The Universal Cambist

Christie's Sale 4701, Lot 431

"STUNNING & RARE Gold QVAR DUCAT" eBay Auction

Edited October 9, 2014 by dadams

[Nutmeg Coin]

Thanks for the research.

 

I sent it to them and got it back this week from NGC, attribution was:

 

(1779-80) RB ITALY VENICE PAOLUCCI-14 GOLD 1/4DUC XF DETAILS PLUGGED

[Nick Bogiatzis]

Hello, I hope there is still some interest in this coin. I am aware of two similar coins, cast in gold, but for Aloise Mocenigo with the mintmaster Giacomo Anzolo Foscarini, shown on the coin as GAF. 

Both coins had circulated in the Ottoman world and are pierced for jewellery.

I would be interested to know if more information has come to light on these coins, and would be interested in acquiring one.