GTG: 1942 Walker

[Tyler N.]

Take a stab at the grade on this one I bought today. Love the subtle color.

 

 

Thanks,

Tyler

[Curry]

Great color. Good buy. What's the grade?

[Tyler N.]

Great color. Good buy. What's the grade?

 

That's for you to guess I'll reveal the grade tomorrow afternoon-ish once more people have replied.

[yonico]

66 and beautiful

[coinman_23885]

If the luster is strong enough in hand, I would call it MS67. It's a very nice coin; I like it a lot.

[Afterword]

I will squeeze between them with an MS 66+.

[yonico]

If the luster is strong enough in hand, I would call it MS67. It's a very nice coin; I like it a lot.

 

the kind of muted luster is exactly why i went with 66.

 

if it's indeed stronger in hand and not fully showing in pics - I'd have no problem with a 67 grade. it is sure struck well and clean enough. beautiful coin!

[copper toning]

66+

 

and love the toning

[Curry]

Great color. Good buy. What's the grade?

Solid 66

[ldhair]

66

[jackson64]

Okay, I'll chime in with my non-professional but walker experienced opinion.

 

I think the luster is wonderful and quite satiny for the date. The year 1942 philly issues usually are associated more as a frosty luster issue than satiny and you'd probably do better with PCGS grading since they seem to like a satiny look (just an observance).

 

The color is outstanding and also subtle for a series that has some gorgeous toned examples but the toners are easily the exceptions. I'd buy this coin in a heartbeat with the look of its wistful tones.

 

The strike is actually a touch weak for a 1942. The center obverse is a bit soft for one of the bolder struck philly dates with the index finger blending smoothly into the stems and soft area under the breast (L)--although the hip area isvery clean and devoid of contact marks. The reverse has a less than optimum ridging or definition of breast feathers and the trailing leg is flat all the way down.

 

Before it sounds like I'm getting too critical of a coin I find gorgeous and would love to own-- I'll give my grade opinion of a 66+ but would have no problem seeing it in an MS67 slab.

[Tyler N.]

Alright, time to reveal the EXTREMELY SURPRISING grade on this Walker. All of you were in the 66-67 range, and I don't blame you. I do not have this coin in-hand yet so I can't comment on luster. If someone else would have posted this Walker in the GTG, I would have said 66.

 

This Walker is graded MS63 by NGC (Cert: 2633485-003) , and I bought it for $56.95.... I mention the price because I think this Walker is WAY too nice for a 63. So nice that maybe the seller has editted it a bit in PhotoShop. I have no reason to believe he has because he has 99.8% positive feedback with almost 10,000 transactions, and I do not notice any blurring or evidence of the clone stamp tool.

 

After seeing this coin, I did a cert verification on NGC's website to see if their photos showed anything undesirable - I did not pick up on anything as the scans are pretty worthless. If this Walker is, indeed, as nice as the photos suggest, I'm cracking it out and sending it to PCGS. For $57 on a 63, I'm willing to take that chance, even more so with a 30-day return policy. I'm looking for a nicely toned 1942 Walker in 67 for my short set (take a look at it - linked below). I have hope that this coin will upgrade, but, realistically, I can't see it bumping up more than two points. If the coin looks as good as it does in the pictures, I don't really care if it upgrades or not. It's gorgeous.

 

This leads me to a question. After cracking out/resubmitting, what is the largest point upgrade you have received?

 

As stated, I do not have the coin in-hand yet. I'll be away Monday-Friday with no phone or internet access, so I'll post my own, accurate photos next weekend once I receive it. I'll also comment on the luster or any distracting marks.

 

Let me know your thoughts, and thank you for participating in guessing the grade.

 

Tyler

[coinman_23885]

Alright, time to reveal the EXTREMELY SURPRISING grade on this Walker. All of you were in the 66-67 range, and I don't blame you. I do not have this coin in-hand yet so I can't comment on luster. If someone else would have posted this Walker in the GTG, I would have said 66.

 

This Walker is graded MS63 by NGC (Cert: 2633485-003) , and I bought it for $56.95.... I mention the price because I think this Walker is WAY too nice for a 63. So nice that maybe the seller has editted it a bit in PhotoShop. I have no reason to believe he has because he has 99.8% positive feedback with almost 10,000 transactions, and I do not notice any blurring or evidence of the clone stamp tool.

 

After seeing this coin, I did a cert verification on NGC's website to see if their photos showed anything undesirable - I did not pick up on anything as the scans are pretty worthless. If this Walker is, indeed, as nice as the photos suggest, I'm cracking it out and sending it to PCGS. For $57 on a 63, I'm willing to take that chance, even more so with a 30-day return policy. I'm looking for a nicely toned 1942 Walker in 67 for my short set (take a look at it - linked below). I have hope that this coin will upgrade, but, realistically, I can't see it bumping up more than two points. If the coin looks as good as it does in the pictures, I don't really care if it upgrades or not. It's gorgeous.

 

This leads me to a question. After cracking out/resubmitting, what is the largest point upgrade you have received?

 

As stated, I do not have the coin in-hand yet. I'll be away Monday-Friday with no phone or internet access, so I'll post my own, accurate photos next weekend once I receive it. I'll also comment on the luster or any distracting marks.

 

Let me know your thoughts, and thank you for participating in guessing the grade.

 

Tyler

 

There are one of two possibilities:

 

1) There are more ticks or other marks than the images suggest, or it was silently net graded for something not apparent in the photos; or

 

2) You scored big time! Congratulations.

 

I think it was worth purchasing either way. For $57, it is hard to imagine you losing on the coin.

 

To answer your other question, the largest upgrade that I can think of for the moment was a two point upgrade that I received on a Morgan.

[coinman_23885]

P.S. Have you thought about CAC?

[Tyler N.]

P.S. Have you thought about CAC?

 

I have. I applied for membership a few months ago, but I haven't heard anything. I'm a little fish, and would only send 20ish coins a year. There's one semi-local dealer who would probably submit for me. I'd like to submit this one to PCGS to see what they would call it.

[Mark T]

The seller probably photoshopped the coin to hide its imperfections, when you get it in hand you will see all those small nicks that are not visible in the photograph.

 

 

Based on the photo this coin is way to clean for a 63. I would have also guessed no less then MS 66 .

[Curry]

Then u got a GREAT deal!

[yonico]

P.S. Have you thought about CAC?

 

Excuse my ignorance, but how can CAC help here?

 

Even if a gold CAC was applied, and someone would have paid for the coin the full retail price of a MS65, he could not make a dime on it with the shipping back and forth, CAC fee, and his buy price.

MS65 examples sell EVEN ON EBAY for <$80. At coin show a little less. I don't see the point of buying this coin or trying to do anything with it.. Sorry

[Tyler N.]

I don't see the point of buying this coin or trying to do anything with it.. Sorry

 

I bought the coin because I like the look of it. I agree that this doesn't have much opportunity for financial gain, but I can afford a $57 price tag on (judging from the pics) a good-looking coin. Yes, if this coin is accurate to the photo, I'll submit this with some others and "waste" shipping and grading fees. This will be, solely, for my ego - knowing I had the presence of mind to find a nice coin in a series that I love learning about and grading.

 

If it is genuinely a 63 that looks different than the seller's photo, I'll send it back to him.

 

Thank you, all, for your input. As always, I appreciate it!

 

Tyler

[yonico]

I don't see the point of buying this coin or trying to do anything with it.. Sorry

 

I bought the coin because I like the look of it. I agree that this doesn't have much opportunity for financial gain, but I can afford a $57 price tag on (judging from the pics) a good-looking coin. Yes, if this coin is accurate to the photo, I'll submit this with some others and "waste" shipping and grading fees. This will be, solely, for my ego - knowing I had the presence of mind to find a nice coin in a series that I love learning about and grading.

 

If it is genuinely a 63 that looks different than the seller's photo, I'll send it back to him.

 

Thank you, all, for your input. As always, I appreciate it!

 

Tyler

 

Ok. Sorry. I meant to say "I don't see the point of buying this coin or trying to do anything with it.." FOR FINANCIAL GAIN. Not in general. Of course I have no problem with anyone buying a coin for whatever reason he has.

 

It would be cool for you, though, to make your first gold CAC

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do with it!

[coinman_23885]

P.S. Have you thought about CAC?

 

Excuse my ignorance, but how can CAC help here?

 

Even if a gold CAC was applied, and someone would have paid for the coin the full retail price of a MS65, he could not make a dime on it with the shipping back and forth, CAC fee, and his buy price.

 

It is not uncommon for CAC gold stickered coins to sell for more than the next grade up. I have seen gold stickered coins sell for more than two, maybe even three grade intervals up for a blast white generic coins. I remember a PCGS rattler that was in a MS64 holder that sold for more than MS67 price and pushing close to MS67++. This has happened on multiple occasions. So unless the market has changed very recently (hopefully someone who follows this more closely will chime in), it is something worth considering. With regards to the recent trends on CAC gold stickered coins, I think it would be an excellent question to pose on the CAC chat boards. Perhaps Ankur will chime in.

 

Edited: If it looks like that in hand, I think it would exceed MS65 money.

 

[yonico]

P.S. Have you thought about CAC?

 

Excuse my ignorance, but how can CAC help here?

 

Even if a gold CAC was applied, and someone would have paid for the coin the full retail price of a MS65, he could not make a dime on it with the shipping back and forth, CAC fee, and his buy price.

 

It is not uncommon for CAC gold stickered coins to sell for more than the next grade up. I have seen gold stickered coins sell for more than two, maybe even three grade intervals up for a blast white generic coins. I remember a PCGS rattler that was in a MS64 holder that sold for more than MS67 price and pushing close to MS67++. This has happened on multiple occasions. So unless the market has changed very recently (hopefully someone who follows this more closely will chime in), it is something worth considering. With regards to the recent trends on CAC gold stickered coins, I think it would be an excellent question to pose on the CAC chat boards. Perhaps Ankur will chime in.

 

Edited: If it looks like that in hand, I think it would exceed MS65 money.

 

Not to be a pain in the neck, but even if it WAS to sell at MS66 money (3 grades up), it would still make no sense, financially. MS66 examples of this date are readily available for $105-$150, so with his cost price, plus shipping both ways and the CAC fee, he won't have much room left for profit.

 

[coinman_23885]

Not to be a pain in the neck, but even if it WAS to sell at MS66 money (3 grades up), it would still make no sense, financially. MS66 examples of this date are readily available for $105-$150, so with his cost price, plus shipping both ways and the CAC fee, he won't have much room left for profit.

 

But he won't fair any better financially if it comes back as a MS66 from PCGS as you predicted. He would probably pay about the same shipping costs, but the PCGS grading fee is more and then add on the processing fee which PCGS applies to each invoice, then he would be in poorer shape. And this, of course, assumes a crack out. If he tried to cross it in holder, then an additional 1% of the FMV of the coin would apply. And regardless of whether we are talking about a TPG submission or CAC submission, there are ways on saving on shipping. For instance, a local dealer can do it for a reduced shipping fee because there are multiple coins (and people) that are chipping in to reduce the over all fee. I understand what you're saying though.

 

 

[yonico]

Not to be a pain in the neck, but even if it WAS to sell at MS66 money (3 grades up), it would still make no sense, financially. MS66 examples of this date are readily available for $105-$150, so with his cost price, plus shipping both ways and the CAC fee, he won't have much room left for profit.

 

But he won't fair any better financially if it comes back as a MS66 from PCGS as you predicted. He would probably pay about the same shipping costs, but the PCGS grading fee is more and then add on the processing fee which PCGS applies to each invoice, then he would be in poorer shape. And this, of course, assumes a crack out. If he tried to cross it in holder, then an additional 1% of the FMV of the coin would apply. And regardless of whether we are talking about a TPG submission or CAC submission, there are ways on saving on shipping. For instance, a local dealer can do it for a reduced shipping fee because there are multiple coins (and people) that are chipping in to reduce the over all fee. I understand what you're saying though.

 

 

Correct.

 

"But he won't fair any better financially" - you're picking the best out of 2 bad options..

 

There's a better option though.

 

Instead of playing around and just about break even IF HE GETS LUCKY,

 

I would just try to sell it as a very PQ 63 for, lets say, $70-$75. In the current holder.

 

I assume he also still has a return privilege, since he didn't get the coin in hand yet.. I still agree that it would be fun to play with, but can't see any real profit coming from this coin, since the spread is so small between 63-66....

 

 

 

[Tyler N.]

I've always had trouble understanding gold CACs. I know what they signify, but I have trouble with understanding the collector market for them. This is purely from my ignorance and not, in any way, bashing CAC or the people who buy gold stickered coins. My thought process with a gold CAC coin would be to buy it (considering it was an attractive coin that I collected) and resubmit it - whether this would be for financial gain, registry reasons, etc.

 

At the same time, a gold bean commands quite a premium, as stated above. By resubmitting a coin with a gold bean, you lose that added value if it's upgraded and re-slabbed. However, you add the value if it's upgraded.

 

I'm sorry if my logic doesn't make sense or is skewed. Maybe someone who has bought a coin with a gold bean can chime in and explain what they did with it. Did you keep it with the gold bean, or did you trust CAC's expertise and resubmit it?

 

Again, this isn't questioning CAC or anything. This is for my own benefit as someone who is relatively new to the "serious" side of the hobby. Before this, I was into collecting raw coins and paid no attention to TPGs and 4PGs.

 

Thanks for the insight!

 

Tyler

[coinman_23885]

I've always had trouble understanding gold CACs. I know what they signify, but I have trouble with understanding the collector market for them. This is purely from my ignorance and not, in any way, bashing CAC or the people who buy gold stickered coins. My thought process with a gold CAC coin would be to buy it (considering it was an attractive coin that I collected) and resubmit it - whether this would be for financial gain, registry reasons, etc.

 

At the same time, a gold bean commands quite a premium, as stated above. By resubmitting a coin with a gold bean, you lose that added value if it's upgraded and re-slabbed. However, you add the value if it's upgraded.

 

I'm sorry if my logic doesn't make sense or is skewed. Maybe someone who has bought a coin with a gold bean can chime in and explain what they did with it. Did you keep it with the gold bean, or did you trust CAC's expertise and resubmit it?

 

Again, this isn't questioning CAC or anything. This is for my own benefit as someone who is relatively new to the "serious" side of the hobby. Before this, I was into collecting raw coins and paid no attention to TPGs and 4PGs.

 

Thanks for the insight!

 

Tyler

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with your logic/comprehension at all. I think some of the prices fetched at auction for some of the gold stickered coins are ridiculous. Just as some people buy labels and plastic, others fixate on stickers without examining the quality of the coin. I don't think it is wise, but I would be ignoring reality if I pretended like it didn't happen.

 

I am getting ready to ship off a Morgan Dollar in a no line fatty with a gold CAC sticker that looks every bit of 2 to 3 points higher. I haven't decided whether I am going the no reserve route or whether I will post it as a BIN type of listing. I plan to do the same thing that I recommended to you (once I have my piece imaged) and ask the CAC gang who follow the gold sticker trends more closely than I do.

[coinman_23885]

 

"But he won't fair any better financially" - you're picking the best out of 2 bad options..

 

There's a better option though...

 

I would just try to sell it as a very PQ 63 for, lets say, $70-$75. In the current holder.

 

 

 

That's fair enough. And even though the OP doesn't seem concerned with selling the piece, I do agree that if he does change his mind, selling it with excellent images and a good description for premium quality money is a viable strategy for sure.

[johnny9434]

ms 66 and a nice coin for sure

[jpcienkus]

I would have said MS66+ to a 67. I agree the hand is soft, but the fields are incredibly clean in the picture. I could only find a small tick or two on the eagles leg on the reverse.

 

For this to be in a 63 holder, I agree with the earlier post that either it's been photo shopped or you scored big time.

 

So what's the update? Now that you have the coin in hand, what do you think of it? Did you return it? Are you thinking of sending it for a regrade?

 

From the pictures, I can easily see why you jumped on it for $57!

[Walkerfan]

I NEVER would have guessed 63. The luster looks to be more of a satin than a brilliant and that may have limited/affected the grade somewhat. Those images most likely can hide some surface issues but larger scratches should still be evident, which I don't see. What I'd wonder about is possible hairlines that could limit the grade, too. The strike is decent but the thumb is a bit soft for a 1942 P coin. In any event, I DON'T see it grading any lower than 64-65, regardless.