Name 5 coins you could put in a safe for 20 years and forget about?

[CSdot]

I saw this on another site and thought it looked interesting. Name 5 coins you could put in a safe for 20 years and forget about? I think in the posting I saw on the other site the OP limited it to $1,500 per coin, but I won't do that here. Just limit it to what you could envision yourself spending and tell how much per coin. I based mine on a spending limit I use of between $500 - $2,500/per coin depending denomination.

 

 

MS63 or PF63 and up Trade and Seated dollars.

 

MS65 Saint and MS64 Liberty $20s

 

MS64 and up Half cents.

 

MS64 and up Large cents.

 

MS63 and up Flying Eagle cents.

 

[GoldFinger1969]

Seems like good choices, I am only familiar with the Double Eagle $20 coins.

 

I think premiums for MS-65's have burnt-off their 25-year bear market (a typical bear market length for financial assets). Gold is 30% off it's highs, too.....a great combination for a buying opportunity longer-term. (thumbs u

[okbustchaser]

I can't think of a single coin that I would be willing to buy and not look at for 20 years. I collect coins for my pleasure not simply because I have extra room in the safety deposit box.

 

That's why I have never understood roll collecting. I simply cannot imagine a scenario in which I wouldn't break open the roll to enjoy the coins inside.

 

 

 

NOTE: This is not an indictment of anyone else's collecting mode...different strokes and all that.

[GoldFinger1969]

I can't think of a single coin that I would be willing to buy and not look at for 20 years. I collect coins for my pleasure not simply because I have extra room in the safety deposit box. That's why I have never understood roll collecting. I simply cannot imagine a scenario in which I wouldn't break open the roll to enjoy the coins inside.NOTE: This is not an indictment of anyone else's collecting mode...different strokes and all that.

 

I think what CS meant was that it would be a classic Buy-And-Hold coin, not necessarily one that you would not look at periodically.

[BillJones]

That's a tough question because from what you read the younger people are not into collecting anything, including coins. Another problem is that the economy seems to be stagnating which means that there is less money available to be spent on leisure time activities.

 

I suppose that a larger piece of gold might be relatively safe, but will the value come from the price of gold bullion or some collector premium beyond that? If it's gold bullion, you might do better with a bullion coin like an American Gold Eagle. If it's collector value, then perhaps a nicely preserved double eagle would work.

 

It's hard to predict the value of anything 20 years or more in the future. Who could have predicted in 1989 that General Motors stock as well as all of the company's bonds would be worthless in 2009?

 

[GoldFinger1969]

That's a tough question because from what you read the younger people are not into collecting anything, including coins. Another problem is that the economy seems to be stagnating which means that there is less money available to be spent on leisure time activities.

 

Definitely true. I used to be big into baseball card collecting -- fun, and had 3 younger cousins who I would take to shows and stuff. Check out this video on the collapse of the baseball card shows and the young people that no longer attend:

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/collectors-lament-baseballs-house-of-cards/

 

That's the Parsippany PAL building that also houses the monthly coin show.

 

You veterans can tell me how many kids attended coin shows 20 and 40 years ago. I wouldn't know.

 

I suppose that a larger piece of gold might be relatively safe, but will the value come from the price of gold bullion or some collector premium beyond that? If it's gold bullion, you might do better with a bullion coin like an American Gold Eagle. If it's collector value, then perhaps a nicely preserved double eagle would work.

 

With both gold and the numismatic premium on SOME coins (i.e., Common Saints) pretty low, I think you can benefit from either or both moving up. Since rarer coins hold up better during downturns than Commons, but also sell at a bigger premium to bullion value, that's a different market.

 

It's hard to predict the value of anything 20 years or more in the future. Who could have predicted in 1989 that General Motors stock as well as all of the company's bonds would be worthless in 2009?

 

Actually, a bunch of people did. Notably, Mary Anne Keller, the dean of the auto analysts, was warning as early as 1985 repeatedly on the old Wall Street Week With Louis Ruykeyser show. Ross Perot also warned -- he was GM's #1 individual holder and got forced out. And anybody who watched the company knew eventually it would have to file bankruptcy -- just like Greece and Detroit. We just didn't know exactly when.

 

When GM's bonds traded to junk status in 2005, that signified a 50% chance of going under within 5 years.

 

It happened in 4.

[CSdot]

I can't think of a single coin that I would be willing to buy and not look at for 20 years. I collect coins for my pleasure not simply because I have extra room in the safety deposit box. That's why I have never understood roll collecting. I simply cannot imagine a scenario in which I wouldn't break open the roll to enjoy the coins inside.NOTE: This is not an indictment of anyone else's collecting mode...different strokes and all that.

 

I think what CS meant was that it would be a classic Buy-And-Hold coin, not necessarily one that you would not look at periodically.

 

Thanks GF. That's exactly what I meant. I still own most of the coins I have purchased, so most will still be around in 20 years anyway. The only reason I have sold what I have is that I read somewhere that it is a good practice to sell occasionally so you have a real world understanding of what your coins are worth. Meaning, not what you would pay for them or what some book or online source says they are worth, but what a willing buyer would pay.

 

Bill- I do occasionally wonder if coin collecting will go the way of stamp collecting when the US Treasury/the Fed/the banks require us to move from coins and paper currency to much easier to control and monitor digital currency, but you have to think there will still be some who follow and collect classic coins as a hobby. People still collect records, horses and classic cars, and we all know those are ancient history. ;-)

[GoldFinger1969]

Bill- I do occasionally wonder if coin collecting will go the way of stamp collecting when the US Treasury/the Fed/the banks require us to move from coins and paper currency to much easier to control and monitor digital currency, but you have to think there will still be some who follow and collect classic coins as a hobby. People still collect records, horses and classic cars, and we all know those are ancient history. ;-)

 

Probably NOT as bad because while stamp usage continues to decline, more and more Americans are holders of precious bullion (and of course, jewelry).

 

The key is how many investors do what I did: gravitate from 100% bullion to a mix of bullion and classic coins. For me, it was a combination of factors -- I was aware of Saint Gaudens coins 15-20 years ago and never had the slightest interest (of course -- the price was alot lower !!! ) -- and now I'm reading books, posting here, buying coins, etc.

[okbustchaser]

I can't think of a single coin that I would be willing to buy and not look at for 20 years. I collect coins for my pleasure not simply because I have extra room in the safety deposit box. That's why I have never understood roll collecting. I simply cannot imagine a scenario in which I wouldn't break open the roll to enjoy the coins inside.NOTE: This is not an indictment of anyone else's collecting mode...different strokes and all that.

 

I think what CS meant was that it would be a classic Buy-And-Hold coin, not necessarily one that you would not look at periodically.

 

Thanks GF. That's exactly what I meant. I still own most of the coins I have purchased, so most will still be around in 20 years anyway. The only reason I have sold what I have is that I read somewhere that it is a good practice to sell occasionally so you have a real world understanding of what your coins are worth. Meaning, not what you would pay for them or what some book or online source says they are worth, but what a willing buyer would pay.

 

 

And there's the difference. I don't invest in coins...I collect them for my own enjoyment. Once I own a particular example I couldn't care less what its future value is to someone else--up, down, or sideways.

[TonerGuy]

That's a tough question because from what you read the younger people are not into collecting anything, including coins.

 

I dont know if thats true. I see some kids at coin shows. But I see more kids at flea markets buying collectibles or at least with their parents who are buying collectibles.

 

I have numerous friends that are collectors - just not coins. They collect certain folk art, records, books, posters, photographs ect. I see CDs starting to gain value.

 

I think being a collector is a personality type - hence why I am friends with other collectors - we share common personality traits.

 

There will always be collectors - what they collect will change though. On the west coast we have huge flea markets every Sunday. Some cover acres of space in the parking lots of stadiums and colleges. Many of the booths are selling collectibles.

 

A friend collects girlie pin-up photos from the 30s and 40s. I asked him why he collects them. He said he likes the history behind them and how they illustrate a change in societies' values. Bikini shots from the 30s were considered racy. Now they are passe.

 

I asked how he came to collect them and he said from seeing them at flea markets. He used to collect just records and then one day he was at a flea market and just happened by someone selling thousands of old photos so he started going through them and just latched onto the old girlie photos. Now his collection contains thousands of photos and is quite valuable. He now buys and sells entire collections.

 

I personally think that if we want to grow this hobby we need to go to where the collectors are... online and at flea markets. B&M stores are a thing of the past. I wish I had the time and the means to set up a booth every Sunday at a flea market. Im convinced that I would quickly develop a customer base for lesser valued coins ($50 and under) and then some of the customers would probably turn into collectors of higher end coins. You have to cultivate clients now.

 

I just dont see dealers concerned with the collectors anymore. Most make more money from dealer to dealer transactions. The Long Beach Show now ends on Saturday because none of the dealers wanted to stay the extra day for the collectors.

 

If the current crop of dealers dont want to stay on a Sunday at a huge show for collectors what future does the hobby have ?

 

Stepping off my soapbox now... sorry for the long rant.

[e1cnr]

There will always be people with OCD

 

I would put in 5 national park quarters

[cmorg-migration]

I can't think of a single coin that I would be willing to buy and not look at for 20 years. I collect coins for my pleasure not simply because I have extra room in the safety deposit box.

 

I actually did do that...left my coins in a safety deposit box during the majority of my child rearing years. It was quite a surprise learning how much some of them had appreciated. I didn't think about how much they'd be worth in the future when buying back then, but bought coins that really caught my eye and imagination. I'm trying to use that same approach now with coins that I hope to pass on. Coins that circulated near the beginning of the U.S. Mint are my favorites. I wonder where and on what they were spent and if they were ever placed in the pocket or purse of an ancestor. I wonder how far they traveled before arriving in my hand.

 

Five coins:

 

1795 Flowing Hair Half Dollar F-VF

 

1795 Flowing Hair Dollar F-VF

 

Bust Half Dollar MS

 

Bust Dollar XF

 

1878 8TF Morgan MS anything (I really like 8TF!)

 

One caveat to the hold without worry coins is that they have original surfaces and no problems, so they're actually quite difficult to find.

 

I've wondered if even these might lose value due to counterfeiting of coins and slabs, but my plan is to leave the ones I like best in the SDB. What my heirs will do with them is unknown to me although I do have one who has some interest in collecting.

[Nutmeg Coin]

The "Rosen Numismatic Advisory" is a good guide on this type of question from time to time. Coins that you rarely see except at the biggest shows have the big potential probably, if a bunch of conditions are met. And the usual major players are the experts on questions like this; John Albanese, Doug Winter and some of the others.

 

My caveat is that you should have the boxes of type material in high grade marked to be broken out and sold in case of hyperbolic rises which has happened. It would not be that hard to develop a computer program on how to maximize profits in numismatics based on past scenarios.

 

What about $2 12/ Libs. in MS65? Premiums on those are really cheap, I sold an MS65+ for $1025 early this month and they moved up recently.

 

Type I and type II $20s in MS62/63 in no-problem condition. They are big classy coins which have only grown in popularity in the last 20 years.

[cmorg-migration]

Where does one find this Advisory? I buy what I like the look of but still have much to learn.

 

Gold coins have never been as intriguing to me as silver. I don't know why that is, but I value them close to the metal price and don't really collect them.

[michael]

Name 5 coins you could put in a safe for 20 years and forget about?

 

if i had the money which i dont..............................

 

but if i did have the money these are the 5 coins

 

1--- pcgs cac ms65 pre 1900 common date with motto quarter eagle

 

2--- pcgs cac ms65 saint with motto common date

 

3--- pcgs cac au58 1860 1854 1857 1856 three dollar gold piece

 

4--- pcgs cac ms65 type 3 liberty $20 common date

 

5---- pcgs cac xf45 1870-cc seated dollar, xf45 1794 halfdime, wreath cent fine to vf

 

of course all 5 would need to be exceptional eye appeal and premium quality for the grade

[GoldFinger1969]

What about $2 12/ Libs. in MS65? Premiums on those are really cheap, I sold an MS65+ for $1025 early this month and they moved up recently.

 

Wow, wasn't aware that quarter-Eagles were that expensive. That's a steep absolute premium to the underlying gold content compared to many later-commons in the Liberty $20 family. And common Saints.

[CSdot]

What about $2 12/ Libs. in MS65? Premiums on those are really cheap, I sold an MS65+ for $1025 early this month and they moved up recently.

 

Wow, wasn't aware that quarter-Eagles were that expensive. That's a steep absolute premium to the underlying gold content compared to many later-commons in the Liberty $20 family. And common Saints.

 

I suspect the small coins cost more (have a larger numismatic premium) because they were used in circulation. Therefore, MS65 specimens are more difficult to find than for example the larger, and more likely hoarded in banks, Saints.

[Nutmeg Coin]

Just google it and it should pop up. Maurice Rosen, let me know if you need the number of his business. It comes out four times a year. Buying at dealer wholesale prices would be key, as otherwise you have to gain 20% in order to make a profit. Precious metals are a lot less complicated and there are dealers like Richard Nachbar who have been discouraging holding coins as an investment for years while buying collections at huge profits to himself.

[Nutmeg Coin]

Here are a couple links, one with an interview with the head of NGC: http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=2259

 

Here is Mr. Rosen's contact info: http://directory.numismaster.com/?id=13572

[Mr. Smith Guesser]

good story on baseball cards. but i think baseball cards are a little different than coins. private companies create them. and like the guy noted in that article, they can basically print as many cards as they want, market them like they're rare, and charge as much as they want. at least with coins, there are limits on minting.

 

however, i also think the U.S. mint itself is kind of hurting the the numismatic market with all these new designs, particularly the state quarter series. what many people don't realize is that the U.S. makes billions and billions of dollars selling these coins over face value...not millions...BILLIONS. It's called Serigniorage, which I think is important for every American to know about, particularly coin collectors (Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seigniorage )

[Nutmeg Coin]

Their explosion of new types, forms and premiums on them is just furthering the fragmentation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragmentation and probably also the weakening of numismatics.

[GoldFinger1969]

good story on baseball cards. but i think baseball cards are a little different than coins. private companies create them. and like the guy noted in that article, they can basically print as many cards as they want, market them like they're rare, and charge as much as they want. at least with coins, there are limits on minting.

 

Good point. (thumbs u

 

however, i also think the U.S. mint itself is kind of hurting the the numismatic market with all these new designs, particularly the state quarter series. what many people don't realize is that the U.S. makes billions and billions of dollars selling these coins over face value...not millions...BILLIONS. It's called Serigniorage, which I think is important for every American to know about, particularly coin collectors (Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seigniorage )

 

Is it billions I have to run the numbers.....

[GoldFinger1969]

Their explosion of new types, forms and premiums on them is just furthering the fragmentation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragmentation and probably also the weakening of numismatics.

Yes, and when you add in the slab-ification, that's an additional problem.

 

That's why while I will buy new/recent coins, including in slabs, including with some MS designation and/or Proof or PL, I make sure that the bulk of my 'investment' $$$ are geared for stuff that doesn't have an easy replacement, like the Saints or Liberty Double-Eagles.

 

The stuff that got killed when supply overwhelmed demand in baseball (and then caused demand to dry up) was not the classic cards, but the stuff minted from 1980 onward.

 

[Mr. Smith Guesser]

Yeah Billions. Wiki references Robert Stein, Staff Director, Subcommittee on Economic Policy, U.S. Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs who said in 2000, "The United States earns about $25 billion per year in seigniorage"

 

Source: http://www.banking.senate.gov/docs/reports/dollar.htm

(about half way down the page)

[NWrarecoins-migration]

IMO,

 

I would not put any coins in a safe for 20 years and just leave them. There are some exceptions of course but with a market that changes so often I think its an overall bad idea.

 

Example 1.

Matte proof lincolns, the market for these exploded several years ago and now they can be had for a fraction of what they were going for. Looking at the matte proof lincolns it would appear a market as stong as it was will not be seen for some time to come.

 

Example 2

 

Commemorative coins.

 

Again several years ago the market for these were pretty hot and yet now they can be had for a fraction of what they were going for.

 

Example 3

 

Generic gold,

 

The price for gold shot through the roof and we are along way from what it was a short while ago, yes will go back up and reach those levels again. If someone had gold stored away they would have been much better selling and purchasing again at a lower level, of course hindsight is 20/20 but there was a clear bubble on gold.

 

Example 4

 

Silver, see above example

 

Example 5

 

Monster toned coins,

 

The market for these was insane and now while there is still a market its no where near what it once was, again a buy wait a bit for the market and sell.

 

There are exceptions and I am sure numerous examples of coins that have done amazing over the last 20 years. My point is that you are better off keeping an eye on the market vs just letting coins sit for an investment.

 

[Walkerfan]

Answered this ATS and I will answer it here, too. In no particular order.

 

Draped Bust & Flowing hair coinage of any decent grade XF-MS

 

Semi Key Morgans--94-S, 94-O, 01-S, 99-S, 83-S etc. in MS 63-64

 

Better Date Saint $20s in MS 64-65

 

Early CBHs (1807-1820) in MS.

 

Early Walkers in MS

 

TWO MORE---

 

Better date SLQs in MS----23-S, etc.

 

1853 Arrows & Rays SLHs in MS

[GoldFinger1969]

Yeah Billions. Wiki references Robert Stein, Staff Director, Subcommittee on Economic Policy, U.S. Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs who said in 2000, "The United States earns about $25 billion per year in seigniorage"

 

Source: http://www.banking.senate.gov/docs/reports/dollar.htm

(about half way down the page)

 

This is highly dubious. This is not like the Fed earning money engaging in clearing and Open Market operations. Many times the Bureau of Engraving and Printing is replacing money.

 

The Fed makes $20 billion in a good year with profits swept to the Treasury (likely earmarked for the ESF, Exchange Stabilization Fund). I don't see the Mint matching this on a true accounting basis.

[Walkerfan]

There will always be people with OCD

 

Agree---people will always collect things and (more specifically) they'll have a fascination with the rarity and history of coins.

 

The demographics have not changed over the years----percentage-wise.

 

I know of more than a few young people who are interested in coins. They will take our place 'tomorrow'.

[Mr. Smith Guesser]

good point. after i did that post i was thinking of trying to contacting the mint directly about how much they current pull in due to seigniorage. i'm guessing that they would have to report it under the freedom of information act.

[Mr. Smith Guesser]

wait, here it is:

 

https://www.usmint.gov/downloads/about/annual_report/2012AnnualReport.pdf