$50 Gold Buffalo scam

[jarro-migration]

I have never posted comments to any forum before. However, I feel that it is my duty to do so now. Being I am 65 years old and retired, I recently rejuvenated a youthful passion for coin collecting. Among other things I have been purchasing $50 Gold Buffalos.

Unfortunately, over this past weekend I know of at least 2 instances where a $5 souvenir replicas of the $59 gold Buffalo were auctioned off as authentic. The last one had 31 bids and sold for $1,451.00.

I know they were souvenirs by the fact that a blow-up the picture with the listing of the coin showed the word "copy" directly under the indians chin and I confirmed with the seller that the picture was of the actual coin being sold. Everything else about the listing indicated it was authentic, even showing the PCGS #. I nicely emailed the sellers, informing him that they were not authentic Buffalos and asked that the listings be withdrawn. Obviously they weren"t.

And now for the really disturbing part. I spent a considerable amount of time contacting Ebay to notify them of the fraudulent listings (I sent 3 emails & talked to 5 different people). In both instances I was assured by Ebay that they were most concerned and would take immediate actions to have the listings withdrawn. However, in neither case was anything done and the auctions were allowed to be completed.

In other words Ebay knowingly let innocent buyers be defrauded out of a substantial amount of money.

Since I am new to this and picked up on this Buffalo coin scam almost immediately, I can obviously conclude that these frauds are frequent and ongoing involving many types of coins. There is quite a bit of money that can be made selling $5 coins for $1,450. Even more disturbing is that Ebay knows that it is happening and does nothing about it even when conclusive evidence is given them on a silver platter.

I know of another dealer on Ebay that sells all their coins encased in a NCG slab (not NGC) for those of us who are dyslexic. They are all fairly rare Morgan and Peace dollar dates and all with "certified" MS66, 67 & 68 ratings. Inocently, I bought one. I took it to 3 different local expert. They all said that the coin was cleaned and even if it wasn't it would not come close to being AU. I know, stupid but I could afford the lesson some can't. The really sad thing is that seller sells little else, deals in a high volume (several thousand) and is labeled a "trusted seller" by Ebay. I looked at the written reviews and the people innocently buying the NCG labels were giving ravingly good reviews about the sellers and the coins. In other words they were adding them to their collections without any idea that they had been had. (probably the same thing will happen with the Buffalos).

I know that I have now become greatly disillusioned with Ebay and am having serious doubts about using them any more, especially for coin purchases. The fact that even when they know a listing is fraudulent they will do nothing to warn the buyer is highly disturbing. It means that there is absolutely no deterrent for the scam artist.

I know this has been long winded but if it will save just a couple of people from being scammed it is worth it. If you can, please pass the word.

[mumu]

Any links to the auctions even if now closed? There are back channel contact methods to the ebay coin fraud team many here can get in contact with, Every time ive reported a coin they have answered back and removed the listing within 24 hours and there are people with even more direct lines than that.

[GoldFinger1969]

Reminds me of those American Buffalo Gold replica TV ads I see on TV. Sneaky.....

[wdrob]

Welcome to the forum!

 

Sad to hear that you were taken by the resemblance of the third party name for profit by deception.

 

You were the type of person I was using as an example when I posted this thread a while back. But according to some here, the person is not breaking eBay policies so they feel that it is your responsibility to know better.

 

I tried to help folks like you but there are a lot of people here that see things in only black and white. The encouraging thing is that while there are many that don't care enough, there are some, evidenced in that thread, that actually do care.

 

Good luck on spotting the 'Con Artists'.

 

 

[jpcienkus]

Welcome to the forums. I hope you stick around and participate.

 

thanks for sharing your eBay experiences. It is truly a caveat emptor auction site!

[rrantique]

Welcome to the forums

[benjmurts]

I have never posted comments to any forum before. However, I feel that it is my duty to do so now. Being I am 65 years old and retired, I recently rejuvenated a youthful passion for coin collecting. Among other things I have been purchasing $50 Gold Buffalos.

Unfortunately, over this past weekend I know of at least 2 instances where a $5 souvenir replicas of the $59 gold Buffalo were auctioned off as authentic. The last one had 31 bids and sold for $1,451.00.

I know they were souvenirs by the fact that a blow-up the picture with the listing of the coin showed the word "copy" directly under the indians chin and I confirmed with the seller that the picture was of the actual coin being sold. Everything else about the listing indicated it was authentic, even showing the PCGS #. I nicely emailed the sellers, informing him that they were not authentic Buffalos and asked that the listings be withdrawn. Obviously they weren"t.

And now for the really disturbing part. I spent a considerable amount of time contacting Ebay to notify them of the fraudulent listings (I sent 3 emails & talked to 5 different people). In both instances I was assured by Ebay that they were most concerned and would take immediate actions to have the listings withdrawn. However, in neither case was anything done and the auctions were allowed to be completed.

In other words Ebay knowingly let innocent buyers be defrauded out of a substantial amount of money.

Since I am new to this and picked up on this Buffalo coin scam almost immediately, I can obviously conclude that these frauds are frequent and ongoing involving many types of coins. There is quite a bit of money that can be made selling $5 coins for $1,450. Even more disturbing is that Ebay knows that it is happening and does nothing about it even when conclusive evidence is given them on a silver platter.

I know of another dealer on Ebay that sells all their coins encased in a NCG slab (not NGC) for those of us who are dyslexic. They are all fairly rare Morgan and Peace dollar dates and all with "certified" MS66, 67 & 68 ratings. Inocently, I bought one. I took it to 3 different local expert. They all said that the coin was cleaned and even if it wasn't it would not come close to being AU. I know, stupid but I could afford the lesson some can't. The really sad thing is that seller sells little else, deals in a high volume (several thousand) and is labeled a "trusted seller" by Ebay. I looked at the written reviews and the people innocently buying the NCG labels were giving ravingly good reviews about the sellers and the coins. In other words they were adding them to their collections without any idea that they had been had. (probably the same thing will happen with the Buffalos).

I know that I have now become greatly disillusioned with Ebay and am having serious doubts about using them any more, especially for coin purchases. The fact that even when they know a listing is fraudulent they will do nothing to warn the buyer is highly disturbing. It means that there is absolutely no deterrent for the scam artist.

I know this has been long winded but if it will save just a couple of people from being scammed it is worth it. If you can, please pass the word.

 

 

I feel your frustration. We need to speak up and get these guys removed from ebay. I see this happen all the time but most time we get the item removed before the sale is over. I feel better knowing that they arent getting away with a scam. (knowingly or unknowingly)

[TonerGuy]

Welcome to the forums and sorry this happened to you...

 

I have always wondered why a company like NGC doesnt go after "NCG" for infringing on their trademark and stopping the potential fraudulent listings.

 

There's a Ninth Circuit ruling that could even make Ebay liable for allowing NCG to sell their "slabs" on Ebay. It wouldnt even require a lawsuit.

 

Getting one listing removed is good, putting an end to the practice is better.

[jarro-migration]

This is yesterday's Buffalo scam

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-BUFFALO-50-GOLD-Bullion-Coin-9999-FINE-GOLD-2012-/111291233791?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=irKIm%252FOWb4L8AJyy1MPpvCGFy1w%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

 

Here is the link to Saturday"s

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-American-Buffalo-9999-Fine-Gold-/181331514048?ViewItem=&ssPageName=ADME%3AX%3ARTQ%3AUS%3A1123&item=181331514048&nma=true&si=irKIm%252FOWb4L8AJyy1MPpvCGFy1w%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

The name of the seller of all the NCG dollars is the "coinclub". They do honor their 30 day return policy. I guess this keeps buyers who immediately recognize that they have been had quite. It is that large majority that are giving the possive feedback that I worry about.

 

If anyone can give me a backdoor contact number to report Ebay frauds I would appreciate it as my methods were clearly not successful (as well as extremely frustrating and time consuming0

 

Thanks all for the welcome..

[WoodenJefferson]

OK, the ~first one~ I find a bit deceiving, it plays right into the 'greed' factor, especially the way it is worded. If you do not scrutinize the images well and the fact that the auction started out @ $750.00 your thinking this will be a bonanza to win below the estimated value.

 

Lots and lots of naive buyers out there and by far to many unscrupulous sellers for e-Bay to police.

[VDBCoins]

Thanks for your note jarro. It is always good to keep reminding innocent buyers that there are a lot of bad actors out there. It is also true that folks need to do their own homework, look at the images, read ALL of each listing, and only then CONSIDER whether to bid or to call someone they know and TRUST to see if they can buy.

 

But yes these frauds give all legitimate coin dealers a black eye. I have been in the business for 50+ years and still learn something new every day to try to stay ahead of the wolves.

 

Best Regards,

 

George

[Conder101]

Ebay has retroactively pulled the auction from Saturday. Yesterday's went to conclusion and is still there.

 

jarro , I don't know what method you used to report the auction but if you used the "Report this auction" link that is in each auction that is not the way to do it. That just adds it to the que and they will get to looking at it eventually, almost certainly after the auction ends. Ebay does have a linkthat lets you specifically report fraudulent coin auctions which moves them directly to the head of the line and will often get results in just a few hours (except on weekends) but they do not make that link easy to find. Unfortunately all I have is the long version of the link and I am not sure it will post correctly. If it does when ou get to the page bookmark it so you can get to it easily for future reporting. Another good thing about this link is it lets you report up to 10 auctions at a time and give you a ten thousand characters to explain why the auctions are fraudulent. (And a good explanation is important. If you just post that these auctions are fraudulent or these coins are fake they may not do anything. But if you can explain WHY they will act swiftly.)

 

http://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ContactUs&wftype=213a7651ffe03d58&bcrumb=1f4e8befdb153500906ab94c4f0a40110c35e15717ccf7396bb93a5cca697e7c29f834c3fcf1346ecf7d5389cefb4070f474323c3a5fc64739b2bffb65bbe5c428b3d0b11173f9fbe17ca9626154d8c91a0dac16a0481303da9085dee5225ec0&subject=1bebaaaf5a42a226871a48fcc33a46b6&rcode=c7d8e9c4b298eff616b2159d03a4ea35.

[Frank1-migration]

Who is this seller? Can you give us his name.

[hunter's gold]

Unfortunately there are greedy sellers of all types of coins. I had to take my lumps just being a Lincoln cent collector and when you see some of the prices that unethical sellers ask it will make you sick. Knowledge is the most important thing. Keen eye people like you help out by being vigilant and reporting these types of listings.