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Another sticker startup -- PQ

Started by delta,

119 posts in this topic

coinman1794

coinman1794

Posted
Posted
Slabs with unique serial numbers, online databases,online pictures, money back guarantees, and a 3 person grading and certification process were not enough.

 

The community needed STICKERS.

 

One day stickers will not be enough and there will be a checkmark written in permanent marker on the slab.

 

Eventually a grunt of approval will take the hobby where it really needs to be.

 

China in counterfeiting serial numbers.

 

Online databases are a recent occurrence and are incomplete, nor do they tell anything about a coins quality.

 

Online picture quality varies wildly.

 

Grading standards have changed 100 times since 1986.

 

I'll take a second opinion on my investment, thank you ;)

 

 

 

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FishyOne

FishyOne

Posted
Posted
They don't "PQ Approve" any denominations below Half Dollars? I must be missing something, please enlighten me.

 

They definitely sticker quarters; you can look at the link in my original post.

 

In the link they reference this page to view coins that "PQ" is reviewing:

PQ Services

 

Nothing below 50C pieces?

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted
Slabs with unique serial numbers, online databases,online pictures, money back guarantees, and a 3 person grading and certification process were not enough.

 

The community needed STICKERS.

 

One day stickers will not be enough and there will be a checkmark written in permanent marker on the slab.

 

Eventually a grunt of approval will take the hobby where it really needs to be.

 

China in counterfeiting serial numbers.

 

Online databases are a recent occurrence and are incomplete, nor do they tell anything about a coins quality.

 

Online picture quality varies wildly.

 

Grading standards have changed 100 times since 1986.

 

I'll take a second opinion on my investment, thank you ;)

 

 

 

Agreed but now that I know CAC accepts scratched coins as PQ, I will say I am not as confident in their second opinion as I was. 'PQ' on the other hand, notes that spots, scratches, etc. will not get the PQ sticker. Bring it on!

 

Best, HT

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Raisethis2

Raisethis2

Posted
Posted

After all this gumflapping I'm pleased to announce that yesterday I received a CAC packet by mail welcoming me to the party.

 

I'm embarrased to say I was wrong. They do let little fish into the pond.

 

 

I guess I'll go on a buying spree.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
Posted

Grading standards have changed 100 times since 1986.

 

 

Having one set of "standards" reviewed by another set of "standards" means absolutely nothing if tomorrow the "standards" have yet again changed.

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coinman1794

coinman1794

Posted
Posted
Slabs with unique serial numbers, online databases,online pictures, money back guarantees, and a 3 person grading and certification process were not enough.

 

The community needed STICKERS.

 

One day stickers will not be enough and there will be a checkmark written in permanent marker on the slab.

 

Eventually a grunt of approval will take the hobby where it really needs to be.

 

China in counterfeiting serial numbers.

 

Online databases are a recent occurrence and are incomplete, nor do they tell anything about a coins quality.

 

Online picture quality varies wildly.

 

Grading standards have changed 100 times since 1986.

 

I'll take a second opinion on my investment, thank you ;)

 

 

 

Agreed but now that I know CAC accepts scratched coins as PQ, I will say I am not as confident in their second opinion as I was. 'PQ' on the other hand, notes that spots, scratches, etc. will not get the PQ sticker. Bring it on!

 

Best, HT

 

CAC market grades, just like the other services; and market grading is not synonymous with "over-grading." This coin is an AU50 or 53 with a medium size scratch. The overall appearance is pleasing enough that PCGS decided it was worth holdering at XF45 due to perceived marketability at that price range. CAC must have agreed that they would stand behind it as a 45.

 

I doubt that CAC consider it a PQ coin. CAC green-stickers those that are both A and B coins for the grade, an rejects low-end coins.

 

Were this an XF45 with a scratch, it would be a definite problem for the reputation of both PCGS and CAC.

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted
Slabs with unique serial numbers, online databases,online pictures, money back guarantees, and a 3 person grading and certification process were not enough.

 

The community needed STICKERS.

 

One day stickers will not be enough and there will be a checkmark written in permanent marker on the slab.

 

Eventually a grunt of approval will take the hobby where it really needs to be.

 

China in counterfeiting serial numbers.

 

Online databases are a recent occurrence and are incomplete, nor do they tell anything about a coins quality.

 

Online picture quality varies wildly.

 

Grading standards have changed 100 times since 1986.

 

I'll take a second opinion on my investment, thank you ;)

 

 

 

Agreed but now that I know CAC accepts scratched coins as PQ, I will say I am not as confident in their second opinion as I was. 'PQ' on the other hand, notes that spots, scratches, etc. will not get the PQ sticker. Bring it on!

 

Best, HT

 

CAC market grades, just like the other services; and market grading is not synonymous with "over-grading." This coin is an AU50 or 53 with a medium size scratch. The overall appearance is pleasing enough that PCGS decided it was worth holdering at XF45 due to perceived marketability at that price range. CAC must have agreed that they would stand behind it as a 45.

 

I doubt that CAC consider it a PQ coin. CAC green-stickers those that are both A and B coins for the grade, an rejects low-end coins.

 

Were this an XF45 with a scratch, it would be a definite problem for the reputation of both PCGS and CAC.

 

Last time I looked, it had an XF45 grade on it, not an AU50 scratched, net XF45. So it is a problem coin, no question about it, and CAC beaned it, hence call it PQ, A, B, whatever, but they beaned a problem coin IMO.

 

Best, HT

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mumu

mumu

Posted
Posted
Slabs with unique serial numbers, online databases,online pictures, money back guarantees, and a 3 person grading and certification process were not enough.

 

The community needed STICKERS.

 

One day stickers will not be enough and there will be a checkmark written in permanent marker on the slab.

 

Eventually a grunt of approval will take the hobby where it really needs to be.

 

China in counterfeiting serial numbers.

 

Online databases are a recent occurrence and are incomplete, nor do they tell anything about a coins quality.

 

Online picture quality varies wildly.

 

Grading standards have changed 100 times since 1986.

 

I'll take a second opinion on my investment, thank you ;)

 

 

 

I would be willing to gamble that if the Chinese can counterfeit a 200 year old American coin and a slab, sticker technology hasn't eluded them.

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Kurtdog

Kurtdog

Posted
Posted
Slabs with unique serial numbers, online databases,online pictures, money back guarantees, and a 3 person grading and certification process were not enough.

 

The community needed STICKERS.

 

One day stickers will not be enough and there will be a checkmark written in permanent marker on the slab.

 

Eventually a grunt of approval will take the hobby where it really needs to be.

China in counterfeiting serial numbers.

 

Online databases are a recent occurrence and are incomplete, nor do they tell anything about a coins quality.

 

Online picture quality varies wildly.

 

Grading standards have changed 100 times since 1986.

 

I'll take a second opinion on my investment, thank you ;)

I would be willing to gamble that if the Chinese can counterfeit a 200 year old American coin and a slab, sticker technology hasn't eluded them.

:lol:

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Slabs with unique serial numbers, online databases,online pictures, money back guarantees, and a 3 person grading and certification process were not enough.

 

The community needed STICKERS.

 

One day stickers will not be enough and there will be a checkmark written in permanent marker on the slab.

 

Eventually a grunt of approval will take the hobby where it really needs to be.

 

China in counterfeiting serial numbers.

 

Online databases are a recent occurrence and are incomplete, nor do they tell anything about a coins quality.

 

Online picture quality varies wildly.

 

Grading standards have changed 100 times since 1986.

 

I'll take a second opinion on my investment, thank you ;)

 

 

 

I would be willing to gamble that if the Chinese can counterfeit a 200 year old American coin and a slab, sticker technology hasn't eluded them.

 

While obviously, true, there is far less upside to counterfeiting the stickers than there is the coins and holders.

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dimefreak

dimefreak

Posted
Posted
Brandon Kelley has his own sticker as well... its in its infancy and only pertains to the toning.

 

Oh this should be interesting... any info on when this may launch ?

 

Coins have been stickered all ready

 

A price guide to go with the color coordinated stickers should be on the way shortly. Not completely sure on timeline

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mumu

mumu

Posted
Posted
Slabs with unique serial numbers, online databases,online pictures, money back guarantees, and a 3 person grading and certification process were not enough.

 

The community needed STICKERS.

 

One day stickers will not be enough and there will be a checkmark written in permanent marker on the slab.

 

Eventually a grunt of approval will take the hobby where it really needs to be.

 

China in counterfeiting serial numbers.

 

Online databases are a recent occurrence and are incomplete, nor do they tell anything about a coins quality.

 

Online picture quality varies wildly.

 

Grading standards have changed 100 times since 1986.

 

I'll take a second opinion on my investment, thank you ;)

 

 

 

I would be willing to gamble that if the Chinese can counterfeit a 200 year old American coin and a slab, sticker technology hasn't eluded them.

 

While obviously, true, there is far less upside to counterfeiting the stickers than there is the coins and holders.

 

Well what if the counterfeiter feels his counterfeit is an A or B quality job?

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Slabs with unique serial numbers, online databases,online pictures, money back guarantees, and a 3 person grading and certification process were not enough.

 

The community needed STICKERS.

 

One day stickers will not be enough and there will be a checkmark written in permanent marker on the slab.

 

Eventually a grunt of approval will take the hobby where it really needs to be.

 

China in counterfeiting serial numbers.

 

Online databases are a recent occurrence and are incomplete, nor do they tell anything about a coins quality.

 

Online picture quality varies wildly.

 

Grading standards have changed 100 times since 1986.

 

I'll take a second opinion on my investment, thank you ;)

 

 

 

I would be willing to gamble that if the Chinese can counterfeit a 200 year old American coin and a slab, sticker technology hasn't eluded them.

 

While obviously, true, there is far less upside to counterfeiting the stickers than there is the coins and holders.

 

Well what if the counterfeiter feels his counterfeit is an A or B quality job?

 

I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to have a serious discussion.

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coinman1794

coinman1794

Posted
Posted
Slabs with unique serial numbers, online databases,online pictures, money back guarantees, and a 3 person grading and certification process were not enough.

 

The community needed STICKERS.

 

One day stickers will not be enough and there will be a checkmark written in permanent marker on the slab.

 

Eventually a grunt of approval will take the hobby where it really needs to be.

 

China in counterfeiting serial numbers.

 

Online databases are a recent occurrence and are incomplete, nor do they tell anything about a coins quality.

 

Online picture quality varies wildly.

 

Grading standards have changed 100 times since 1986.

 

I'll take a second opinion on my investment, thank you ;)

 

 

 

Agreed but now that I know CAC accepts scratched coins as PQ, I will say I am not as confident in their second opinion as I was. 'PQ' on the other hand, notes that spots, scratches, etc. will not get the PQ sticker. Bring it on!

 

Best, HT

 

CAC market grades, just like the other services; and market grading is not synonymous with "over-grading." This coin is an AU50 or 53 with a medium size scratch. The overall appearance is pleasing enough that PCGS decided it was worth holdering at XF45 due to perceived marketability at that price range. CAC must have agreed that they would stand behind it as a 45.

 

I doubt that CAC consider it a PQ coin. CAC green-stickers those that are both A and B coins for the grade, an rejects low-end coins.

 

Were this an XF45 with a scratch, it would be a definite problem for the reputation of both PCGS and CAC.

 

Last time I looked, it had an XF45 grade on it, not an AU50 scratched, net XF45. So it is a problem coin, no question about it, and CAC beaned it, hence call it PQ, A, B, whatever, but they beaned a problem coin IMO.

 

Best, HT

 

Sorry, but I was looking at the coin, not the label. ;) PCGS deemed it acceptable at a lower grade, rather than putting it in a genuine slab. It happens all the time.

 

CAC "beaned" a problem coin because it was graded a couple points lower than the details it possesses, and they were willing to make a market in that specific coin as an XF45. That is a fact. I don't like it either, but that is what we have here.

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mumu

mumu

Posted
Posted
Slabs with unique serial numbers, online databases,online pictures, money back guarantees, and a 3 person grading and certification process were not enough.

 

The community needed STICKERS.

 

One day stickers will not be enough and there will be a checkmark written in permanent marker on the slab.

 

Eventually a grunt of approval will take the hobby where it really needs to be.

 

China in counterfeiting serial numbers.

 

Online databases are a recent occurrence and are incomplete, nor do they tell anything about a coins quality.

 

Online picture quality varies wildly.

 

Grading standards have changed 100 times since 1986.

 

I'll take a second opinion on my investment, thank you ;)

 

 

 

I would be willing to gamble that if the Chinese can counterfeit a 200 year old American coin and a slab, sticker technology hasn't eluded them.

 

While obviously, true, there is far less upside to counterfeiting the stickers than there is the coins and holders.

 

Well what if the counterfeiter feels his counterfeit is an A or B quality job?

 

I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to have a serious discussion.

 

Your answers are so open and shut that I thought the serious part of the conversation was over and it was time for fun and games.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
Posted

Seriously though - wouldn't a counterfeit sticker make a counterfeit coin in a counterfeit slab easier to sell? Are people expecting counterfeit stickers? Will they look closely enough at a coin with a sticker to determine its authenticity, or will they just trust the sticker?

 

I could see a scenario where an unscrupulous dealer buys a counterfeit coin and stickers it himself in attempt to dupe an unsuspecting buyer. To me, that seems like a serious concern.

 

In this scenario, there seems like there could be a lot of upside potential to putting a 2 cent sticker on a coin. Since the whole idea of the CAC is supposedly "liquidity," I could see a counterfeit sticker providing the same benefit.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Seriously though - wouldn't a counterfeit sticker make a counterfeit coin in a counterfeit slab easier to sell? Are people expecting counterfeit stickers? Will they look closely enough at a coin with a sticker to determine its authenticity, or will they just trust the sticker?

 

I could see a scenario where an unscrupulous dealer buys a counterfeit coin and stickers it himself in attempt to dupe an unsuspecting buyer. To me, that seems like a serious concern.

 

In this scenario, there seems like there could be a lot of upside potential to putting a 2 cent sticker on a coin. Since the whole idea of the CAC is supposedly "liquidity," I could see a counterfeit sticker providing the same benefit.

 

Are you saying you think it's a lot more likely that someone would be duped by a counterfeit coin, holder and sticker than they would by a counterfeit coin and holder, without a sticker?

 

If so, I don't think so and I hope not, but I can't claim to know for certain.

 

My thought is that buyers are either aware of the counterfeit problem or not. If they are, a sticker shouldn't make any difference. And if they're not, they can be taken advantage of with or without a sticker, anyway.

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted
Slabs with unique serial numbers, online databases,online pictures, money back guarantees, and a 3 person grading and certification process were not enough.

 

The community needed STICKERS.

 

One day stickers will not be enough and there will be a checkmark written in permanent marker on the slab.

 

Eventually a grunt of approval will take the hobby where it really needs to be.

 

China in counterfeiting serial numbers.

 

Online databases are a recent occurrence and are incomplete, nor do they tell anything about a coins quality.

 

Online picture quality varies wildly.

 

Grading standards have changed 100 times since 1986.

 

I'll take a second opinion on my investment, thank you ;)

 

 

 

Agreed but now that I know CAC accepts scratched coins as PQ, I will say I am not as confident in their second opinion as I was. 'PQ' on the other hand, notes that spots, scratches, etc. will not get the PQ sticker. Bring it on!

 

Best, HT

 

CAC market grades, just like the other services; and market grading is not synonymous with "over-grading." This coin is an AU50 or 53 with a medium size scratch. The overall appearance is pleasing enough that PCGS decided it was worth holdering at XF45 due to perceived marketability at that price range. CAC must have agreed that they would stand behind it as a 45.

 

I doubt that CAC consider it a PQ coin. CAC green-stickers those that are both A and B coins for the grade, an rejects low-end coins.

 

Were this an XF45 with a scratch, it would be a definite problem for the reputation of both PCGS and CAC.

 

Last time I looked, it had an XF45 grade on it, not an AU50 scratched, net XF45. So it is a problem coin, no question about it, and CAC beaned it, hence call it PQ, A, B, whatever, but they beaned a problem coin IMO.

 

Best, HT

 

Sorry, but I was looking at the coin, not the label. ;) PCGS deemed it acceptable at a lower grade, rather than putting it in a genuine slab. It happens all the time.

 

CAC "beaned" a problem coin because it was graded a couple points lower than the details it possesses, and they were willing to make a market in that specific coin as an XF45. That is a fact. I don't like it either, but that is what we have here.

 

Sorry, but I was looking at the coin, not the label. ;) It is blatanly scratched, thus I would never buy it, bean, NGC, grade, no grade. Maybe something like a G8 that scratch is acceptable to me, but not at VF30, XF40, AU50 for sure. If CAC makes a market in problem coins for the grade, it tells me I have to be very cautious buying CAC beaned coins. It is simply amazing that we have to even have this discussion simply because one persons opinion (JA and his graders) carry so much weight in the market, yet they bean blatantly scratched coins that should concern anyone.

 

Best, HT

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted
Slabs with unique serial numbers, online databases,online pictures, money back guarantees, and a 3 person grading and certification process were not enough.

 

The community needed STICKERS.

 

One day stickers will not be enough and there will be a checkmark written in permanent marker on the slab.

 

Eventually a grunt of approval will take the hobby where it really needs to be.

 

China in counterfeiting serial numbers.

 

Online databases are a recent occurrence and are incomplete, nor do they tell anything about a coins quality.

 

Online picture quality varies wildly.

 

Grading standards have changed 100 times since 1986.

 

I'll take a second opinion on my investment, thank you ;)

 

 

 

I would be willing to gamble that if the Chinese can counterfeit a 200 year old American coin and a slab, sticker technology hasn't eluded them.

 

While obviously, true, there is far less upside to counterfeiting the stickers than there is the coins and holders.

 

Well what if the counterfeiter feels his counterfeit is an A or B quality job?

 

I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to have a serious discussion.

 

Your answers are so open and shut ........

 

That is because Mark is an informed numismatist, he knows all ;):devil:

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted

 

Are you saying you think it's a lot more likely that someone would be duped by a counterfeit coin, holder and sticker than they would by a counterfeit coin and holder, without a sticker?

 

No Mark, read what he says, he just says there would be incentive to put a counterfeit bean on a coin because having a bean makes it easier to sell. Jason did not say anything about being duped more, he never even used the term 'duped', if the bean was not present on a slab.

 

Best, HT

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted

Are you saying you think it's a lot more likely that someone would be duped by a counterfeit coin, holder and sticker than they would by a counterfeit coin and holder, without a sticker?

 

No Mark, read what he says, he just says there would be incentive to put a counterfeit bean on a coin because having a bean makes it easier to sell. Jason did not say anything about being duped more, he never even used the term 'duped', if the bean was not present on a slab.

 

Best, HT

 

I already read what Jason said, or I wouldn't have quoted him and asked a follow-up question.

 

If "having a bean makes it easier to sell", then it follows that someone could/would be more easily duped (than if there were no counterfeit sticker involved).

 

If you disagree with that, please explain what would be the incentive for a counterfeit CAC sticker being used (along with a counterfeit coin and holder) by the unscrupulous dealer?

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coinman1794

coinman1794

Posted
Posted

Firstly, the scratch is moderately distracting but not terrible. Secondly, you do not seem to understand that I am on your side. Thirdly, the coin is not a scratched XF45, its a scratched AU53.

 

I said I looked at the coin because it doesn't sound like you realize this coin would grade AU53 without the scratch ("If CAC makes a market in problem coins for the grade, it tells me I have to be very cautious buying CAC beaned coins"). PCGS and CAC clearly figured the marketability of a scratched AU53, and decided it was worth XF45 money.

 

Yes, it is a problem coin, yes it has been market graded downward to reflect its value, no I would never buy this coin, either. Don't shoot the messenger.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
Posted
Seriously though - wouldn't a counterfeit sticker make a counterfeit coin in a counterfeit slab easier to sell? Are people expecting counterfeit stickers? Will they look closely enough at a coin with a sticker to determine its authenticity, or will they just trust the sticker?

 

I could see a scenario where an unscrupulous dealer buys a counterfeit coin and stickers it himself in attempt to dupe an unsuspecting buyer. To me, that seems like a serious concern.

 

In this scenario, there seems like there could be a lot of upside potential to putting a 2 cent sticker on a coin. Since the whole idea of the CAC is supposedly "liquidity," I could see a counterfeit sticker providing the same benefit.

 

Are you saying you think it's a lot more likely that someone would be duped by a counterfeit coin, holder and sticker than they would by a counterfeit coin and holder, without a sticker?

 

If so, I don't think so and I hope not, but I can't claim to know for certain.

 

My thought is that buyers are either aware of the counterfeit problem or not. If they are, a sticker shouldn't make any difference. And if they're not, they can be taken advantage of with or without a sticker, anyway.

 

I think the problem would be two-fold. I think first, it would be easier to sell because everyone hears about the sticker and its reliability, so someone who would be duped by a counterfeit would be even more easily duped by a counterfeit with a sticker.

 

Second, and more problematic, I think somewhat knowledgeable people who might be on their guard for counterfeits may relax their guard somewhat when they see a sticker. They might not suspect a counterfeit sticker on top of all the rest - so a counterfeit with a sticker may more easily pass even for a more knowledgeable person.

 

These are hypothetical scenarios, of course, but they are plausible.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Seriously though - wouldn't a counterfeit sticker make a counterfeit coin in a counterfeit slab easier to sell? Are people expecting counterfeit stickers? Will they look closely enough at a coin with a sticker to determine its authenticity, or will they just trust the sticker?

 

I could see a scenario where an unscrupulous dealer buys a counterfeit coin and stickers it himself in attempt to dupe an unsuspecting buyer. To me, that seems like a serious concern.

 

In this scenario, there seems like there could be a lot of upside potential to putting a 2 cent sticker on a coin. Since the whole idea of the CAC is supposedly "liquidity," I could see a counterfeit sticker providing the same benefit.

 

Are you saying you think it's a lot more likely that someone would be duped by a counterfeit coin, holder and sticker than they would by a counterfeit coin and holder, without a sticker?

 

If so, I don't think so and I hope not, but I can't claim to know for certain.

 

My thought is that buyers are either aware of the counterfeit problem or not. If they are, a sticker shouldn't make any difference. And if they're not, they can be taken advantage of with or without a sticker, anyway.

 

I think the problem would be two-fold. I think first, it would be easier to sell because everyone hears about the sticker and its reliability, so someone who would be duped by a counterfeit would be even more easily duped by a counterfeit with a sticker.

 

Second, and more problematic, I think somewhat knowledgeable people who might be on their guard for counterfeits may relax their guard somewhat when they see a sticker. They might not suspect a counterfeit sticker on top of all the rest - so a counterfeit with a sticker may more easily pass even for a more knowledgeable person.

 

These are hypothetical scenarios, of course, but they are plausible.

 

Thanks Jason and I hope you're wrong. ;)

 

Hopefully Mr. HT will see your follow-up post, too.

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