Looks like that toned 23-S MS65 Peace $ is up for auction again...

[brg5658]

If coins like this are so great, why do they get passed around from person (dealer?) to person (dealer?) in multiple auctions over short periods of time like some sort of currency. If it truly is a beautiful gem as Mark and Bruce attest, then I hope it goes into an actual collectors hands for many years.

 

When I buy a coin I think is splendid, I don't put it back up for sale 10 months later. And, yes I've heard the "hardship" excuse before -- but if you are someone who has $11.5K to spend on a coin in the first place, I have a hard time believing that person has fallen on hard times and now needs the money.

 

Good luck to anyone bidding. I'm done with this thread and the insults of our fortnightly visitor from ATS.

 

I don't think the frequency of appearances is necessarily a fair measure of whether a coin is great, good, poor, etc..

 

I think it's a pretty good measure of the game that dealers play in purchasing, attempting upgrades, reselling, etc. ad infinitum. So much for collecting coins nowadays -- the hobby today is essentially trading and flipping coins. (YES, I'm writing this in hyperbole, but you get the point).

[Kurtdog]

I don't get what people see in that coin. I wouldn't pay even one tenth of it's Legend sale price.

I do. I viewed the coin prior to its last sale and It's one of the most beautifully toned Peace Dollars I have seen.

Well, I guess it's just personal preference then...that or the images are absolutely horrendous. Based on the Legend and HA images, and using my imagination, I don't see a $10K coin. Not even close.

You have to remember that a white example of that date/grade is worth $6.5k+ So that's giving a 60% premium for color. Nothing out of the ordinary inš terms of that %.

You have to remember this coin used to be in an MS64 holder (I can't find the old thread)...so it's already been "market graded" up to a 65 probably because of the supposed eye-appeal.

 

People can spend their money however they'd like, but not my cup of tea.

So it was graded 64 before and 65 now. Why are you the one to say it was upgraded for the toning giving it eye appeal? Maybe when it was originally graded, the graders felt 64, but later, they actually felt it was 65...for the technical grade?

 

Too many assumptions, particularly when bashing on a coin/price that one is not even interested in.

 

There is no way in HE&& that I would pay that kind of money for that coin, but I also don't bother to come on here and bash on it and criticize the grade since I have not seen it in person.

Man it's a touchy day. Must be something with the stars aligning to make everyone so grumpy. For the record, if you read the old thread from back in February 2013 (which I linked), it wasn't me who suggested such an upgrade. But, the coin was unquestionably traced through CoinFacts images to have gone through the phases of MS64 to MS64+ then to MS65. But, thanks for your ever-so-enlightening two cents -- I always love when someone comes over to the NGC boards from ATS for the sole purpose to belittle and criticize here.

 

For the record, if Mark Feld (who I respect) said that he thought it was an MS65, then so be it -- I trust him and his opinion. Having not seen the coin in person yourself, you sure do also seem be throwing around just as many if not more assumptions than I did. Again, if you read the entire thread, my point was that, unless the coin looks WAY better than both the Legend and HA images make it look, then it's not attractive IN MY OPINION. That's all. I also stated more than once that if someone wants to spend that kind of money on a coin like that, then more power to them. It's a free country.

 

I'm sure if this coin were in an NGC holder, and the same historical "upgrade" information sale prices were known, everyone and their grandma ATS would be throwing a fit. Take a deep breath, drink your kool-aid, and maybe spike it with a bit of vodka so you can settle down. Good grief.

Dude, grow up. I don't play the 'their forum vs our forum' BS that you obviously do. I'd make the same comment, given your post that started it all, regardless.

 

You made the comment in this thread about the upgrade being die to toning.... don't try to cower behind someone else's thread.

 

No, I haven't seen it and I didn't comment on whether kt deserved the grade or not...I commented on YOU stating it was due to the toning.

 

Your jab at me being on the PCGS board, as well as here, is precisely my point in a post here the other day, in response to a post Scott made..... that certain folks over here go out of their to badmouth others from the PCGS boards that come here. Must be great to feel elite and better than others, eh?

Assumptions made about how others would feel based on the plastic and applying those assumptions to everyone not part of your clique.....

Bochiman, you're dealing with immaturity. You'll never get across to it. Shake it off. Then just stay in here and pitch.

[MarkFeld]

If coins like this are so great, why do they get passed around from person (dealer?) to person (dealer?) in multiple auctions over short periods of time like some sort of currency. If it truly is a beautiful gem as Mark and Bruce attest, then I hope it goes into an actual collectors hands for many years.

 

When I buy a coin I think is splendid, I don't put it back up for sale 10 months later. And, yes I've heard the "hardship" excuse before -- but if you are someone who has $11.5K to spend on a coin in the first place, I have a hard time believing that person has fallen on hard times and now needs the money.

 

Good luck to anyone bidding. I'm done with this thread and the insults of our fortnightly visitor from ATS.

 

I don't think the frequency of appearances is necessarily a fair measure of whether a coin is great, good, poor, etc..

 

I think it's a pretty good measure of the game that dealers play in purchasing, attempting upgrades, reselling, etc. ad infinitum. So much for collecting coins nowadays -- the hobby today is essentially trading and flipping coins. (YES, I'm writing this in hyperbole, but you get the point).

 

The games to which you refer - and I'm not disputing them - can occur with good or great coins, too. A coin which appears for sale frequently might be a failed upgrade, failed crossover, failed CAC submisison, successful upgrade, whatever and still be a wonderful coin.

[Whiteknight-migration]

This coin interestingly enough has quite a few sisters, meaning that it was 1/9 from an aftermarket cardboard holder.

It was purchased by two dealers splitting a table, they sent in the 23s, since it was the only mintmarked one, and then flipped it.

they then split the remaining 8, taking 4 and 4 each. All of which are still raw and havent been submitted until today. if I remember correctly a mix of 22,23and 24 P's. all with very similar toning patterns and colors.

However one of them has since retired and recently has offered all 4 of the peace for sale that he has from the set, either as a group or single, doesn't matter to him. if anyone is interested, send me a pm ill send you his contact info.

[jpcienkus]

If coins like this are so great, why do they get passed around from person (dealer?) to person (dealer?) in multiple auctions over short periods of time like some sort of currency. If it truly is a beautiful gem as Mark and Bruce attest, then I hope it goes into an actual collectors hands for many years.

 

When I buy a coin I think is splendid, I don't put it back up for sale 10 months later. And, yes I've heard the "hardship" excuse before -- but if you are someone who has $11.5K to spend on a coin in the first place, I have a hard time believing that person has fallen on hard times and now needs the money.

 

Good luck to anyone bidding. I'm done with this thread and the insults of our fortnightly visitor from ATS.

 

I don't think the frequency of appearances is necessarily a fair measure of whether a coin is great, good, poor, etc..

 

Your logic is sound because there are always exceptions, but in this instance, I agree with brg. I would have thought that after it's last auction and price, it had found a home.

 

Did I say something earlier about exceptions?

[dimefreak]

I don't know if folks actually read the whole thread but it appears Shane bought this for somebody and that somebody never paid him for it. Therefore Shane is selling to recoup what he paid for somebody else.... I'd say waiting damn near a year is very admirable

[kryptonitecomics]

I don't know if folks actually read the whole thread but it appears Shane bought this for somebody and that somebody never paid him for it. Therefore Shane is selling to recoup what he paid for somebody else.... I'd say waiting damn near a year is very admirable

 

 

No actually I just know the buyer and provided cash advances for other coins he consigned to me and he failed to pay me back for all of the advances. I own no part of the Peace dollar and never have....just for clarity sake (thumbs u

[michael]

wow amazing colored gem coin

 

i wonder why someone would buy this extraspecial coin and then not even own it a year and put it up for auction????

 

they cant find a buyer except at auction??

[dimefreak]

I don't know if folks actually read the whole thread but it appears Shane bought this for somebody and that somebody never paid him for it. Therefore Shane is selling to recoup what he paid for somebody else.... I'd say waiting damn near a year is very admirable

 

 

No actually I just know the buyer and provided cash advances for other coins he consigned to me and he failed to pay me back for all of the advances. I own no part of the Peace dollar and never have....just for clarity sake (thumbs u

 

Ahhh I see! Good luck with that! Your a good guy!

[jom]

I'm gonna have to agree with BRG on this one. I realize I have not seen the coin in hand but just from the photos I don't find it that big of a deal. To be fair, I've never cared for PDs to begin with so it would take a lot of "make up" for me to take notice. heh

 

However if Feld, TDN, CAC and PCGS agree now it's a 65 then it's a good bet it's a 65. So a 60% uptick on that value isn't bad at all.

 

I hope Krypton gets his money back too!

 

jom

[L1ncolnF4n]

I don't get what people see in that coin. I wouldn't pay even one tenth of it's Legend sale price.

 

I do. I viewed the coin prior to its last sale and It's one of the most beautifully toned Peace Dollars I have seen.

 

Well, I guess it's just personal preference then...that or the images are absolutely horrendous. Based on the Legend and HA images, and using my imagination, I don't see a $10K coin. Not even close.

 

You have to remember that a white example of that date/grade is worth $6.5k+ So that's giving a 60% premium for color. Nothing out of the ordinary in terms of that %.

 

PS -- where did you get the $6.5K value? The last few in PCGS holders were from $3600-$4100 as listed in the Legend auction link...

 

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?hdnJumpToLot=1&saleNo=1187%20&lotNo=3271&x=0&y=0

 

65 CAC.

 

In regards to market grading that's a whole different animal. People look at plastic as much as the coin. If someone didn't know it was in a 64 holder what's it matter? Mark commented that he felt it was fine at 65, so it would have theoretically been undergraded at 64.

[coinman_23885]

However if Feld, TDN, CAC and PCGS agree now it's a 65 then it's a good bet it's a 65.

 

(thumbs u

 

[Kurtdog]

However if Feld, TDN, CAC and PCGS agree now it's a 65 then it's a good bet it's a 65.

(thumbs u

I suppose a lot of collectors these days reason that way. I suppose you two aren't the only ones.

[BillJones]

I agree with the MS-65 grade, but I can't relate to the $10,000 price because I am not a toner fanatic.

[jom]

However if Feld, TDN, CAC and PCGS agree now it's a 65 then it's a good bet it's a 65.

(thumbs u

I suppose a lot of collectors these days reason that way. I suppose you two aren't the only ones.

 

OK, so what's you point? I mean, how many experts need to be consulted until it's agreed that the coin is a MS65? 3? 15? 403?

 

Sorry...but I fail to understand your statement.

 

jom

[brg5658]

However if Feld, TDN, CAC and PCGS agree now it's a 65 then it's a good bet it's a 65.

(thumbs u

I suppose a lot of collectors these days reason that way. I suppose you two aren't the only ones.

 

OK, so what's you point? I mean, how many experts need to be consulted until it's agreed that the coin is a MS65? 3? 15? 403?

 

Sorry...but I fail to understand your statement.

 

jom

 

jom, his statement means that if HE thinks it's correct then it is. No one else matters. It's the normal "useful" additions that he adds to conversation/discussion here on the NGC boards.

 

[MarkFeld]

However if Feld, TDN, CAC and PCGS agree now it's a 65 then it's a good bet it's a 65.

(thumbs u

I suppose a lot of collectors these days reason that way. I suppose you two aren't the only ones.

 

OK, so what's you point? I mean, how many experts need to be consulted until it's agreed that the coin is a MS65? 3? 15? 403?

 

Sorry...but I fail to understand your statement.

 

jom

 

jom, his statement means that if HE thinks it's correct then it is. No one else matters. It's the normal "useful" additions that he adds to conversation/discussion here on the NGC boards.

 

 

If you're going to take issue with a poster - and I have, previously - at least do so with respect to what he states, as opposed to words you might be putting in his mouth.

[brg5658]

However if Feld, TDN, CAC and PCGS agree now it's a 65 then it's a good bet it's a 65.

(thumbs u

I suppose a lot of collectors these days reason that way. I suppose you two aren't the only ones.

 

OK, so what's you point? I mean, how many experts need to be consulted until it's agreed that the coin is a MS65? 3? 15? 403?

 

Sorry...but I fail to understand your statement.

 

jom

 

jom, his statement means that if HE thinks it's correct then it is. No one else matters. It's the normal "useful" additions that he adds to conversation/discussion here on the NGC boards.

 

 

If you're going to take issue with a poster - and I have, previously - at least do so with respect to what he states, as opposed to words you might be putting in his mouth.

 

I didn't even know what he had written until it was quoted, as he has been on my ignore list for quite some time. That being said, I've never known the poster in question to speak his mind in a straightforward and "to the point" manner. It's usually some sort of back-handed insult or cryptic supposedly "witty" response. Thus, my reply to jom was in intended to encourage him to pay no attention to the post. Thanks for keeping me honest though Mark.

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled Sunday programming...

 

 

[jom]

That being said, I've never known the poster in question to speak his mind in a straightforward and "to the point" manner. It's usually some sort of back-handed insult or cryptic supposedly "witty" response. Thus, my reply to jom was in intended to encourage him to pay no attention to the post.

 

I suppose I should not have even mentioned it. I did feel the comment was possibly as you say a "back-handed" insult. However, I agree with Mark in that I'd like to hear what he says rather than guess...hence my question.

 

He has made comments in the past that were "possibly" negative in terms of "market grading" or other common issues of the day. I would like to know what he means because it might be of some value. On the other hand it might end up being more of the cryptic style which, IMO, is rather useless as an addition to the thread.

 

jom

[TonerGuy]

So now one wants to place a guestimate...

 

Is this coin going higher or lower than the last hammer price ?

 

Im going lower... hope Im wrong. I really really do. I would love to see this coin break $20,000.

 

[TonerGuy]

Well with less than a week to go it looks like she's at $8000 and $9400 with the Buyer's Premium...

 

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1201&lotNo=6075

 

Can she double in price in a flurry of bidding at the end ?

[WoodenJefferson]

Doubling the auction price at this point would require a gold bean...but you never know about them feeding frenzies.

[dimefreak]

I now know the consignor.... with that said he has been caught shilling his bids with heritage before.... now he has somebody else do his dirty work...

 

 

Edited to add.. in fairness the consignor might not even be who we think it is... a dealer might have taken it as payment.. anything is possible when dealing with this guy.. and I mean ANYTHING

[mumu]

If someone posted some random coin and asked who owned it, no one would think twice about naming that person.

 

For example:

 

Poster 1: Does anyone know who owns this coin?

 

 

 

Poster 2: Yea that's Coinfreak's coin.

 

 

No big deal right?

 

 

So why not post the consignor of this one if youre going to sell us on the suspense of the drama behind it?

[Whiteknight-migration]

ATS it's been posted in the bst by bestclser1

Don't know anything about that poster, assuming that poster owns the coin.

[mumu]

What was the asking price there? Or do you mean just a link to the current auction?

[jayman1970]

It is a link to the current auction.

[robec1347]

ATS it's been posted in the bst by bestclser1

Don't know anything about that poster, assuming that poster owns the coin.

Lloyd does own the coin. He is a well known dealer, specializing in toned coins.

[coinman_23885]

ATS it's been posted in the bst by bestclser1

Don't know anything about that poster, assuming that poster owns the coin.

Lloyd does own the coin. He is a well known dealer, specializing in toned coins.

 

I thought he was a collector!?

[lloyd cowle]

He is a collector!Dimefreak,i dont know who you are,so watch what you say please.And as for my business with anyone i am gentleman enough to conduct it in private.If i owe someone money they will get it.Thank you!