Opinions...??

[AcesKings]

Last week I bought this certified 1887 Morgan Dollar. I noticed this cut out mark on her lower neck and thought it was some type of die break, but realized it should be raised if that was the case. So, I thought it must be some kind of strike through, but it only appears on her neck, and not on her lower curls or anything else on the design. Any opinions on what this is, and/or how it was made? I did check VAMworld, and narrowed her down to a VAM 10, but none of the descriptions or pictures there for this date show anything like this. Any help appreciated!

 

 

[bsshog40]

Lamination?

[Deerefan8420]

Lamination?

 

That's kind of what I was thinking Bobby. But it is hard to say for sure based just on the two photos provided.

 

To the OP, try to upload some pictures of the coin from directly overheard. That would give a much better view of what you've got going on there! From these angles, it is difficult to see exactly what you've got going on there.

 

Edited to remove extra quote.

[Coindude]

Bobby that's what I was about to say.

[WoodenJefferson]

Aces over King...welcome to the boards. Since you chose NCG should I assume it is encapsulated in their slab?

[coinman1794]

This looks like either a strike-thru or a lamination. A foreign object or grease could have caused the depression during striking, or a piece of metal could have flaked off the finished coin due to impurities in the metal causing layers to delaminate.

[coinman_23885]

This looks like either a strike-thru or a lamination. A foreign object or grease could have caused the depression during striking, or a piece of metal could have flaked off the finished coin due to impurities in the metal causing layers to delaminate.

 

I agree with this.

[RWB]

Psoriasis

[johnny9434]

welcome to the forums. it looks like a lamination to me as well. jmo

[AcesKings]

Thanks all for the opinions. I think I'm leaning more toward a lamination (though I'm not really sure). To me, a strike through seems less likely considering there's no overflow or markings in the field near the point of the bust. I'd think any strike through would have a hard time confining itself within the tip. So, I guess I'll mark my books as a possible lamination. Thanks again, and thanks for all the welcomes.

[coinman1794]

It could have been struck through a solid object, or grease within the recesses of the die.

[SuperDave]

Wow. When was the last time I posted here?

 

I don't think a strikethrough would leave such a rough surface on the coin. For my money, this is a lamination which propagated just right so that the strike "snipped" it off on the neck contours with the pressure of forcing metal from the fields into the (recessed) devices. If you could completely disassemble the coin, you might find the slightest of separation at the necklines.

[coinman1794]

Grease-filled dies produce a rough surface.

[Conder101]

A small drop of "grease" in the recesses of the neck would also be trapped in the V of the neck by the planchet closing off the recess by the field of the die. So the grease could not spread beyond the confines of the design. A lamination that exactly matches the contours of the design and doesn't extend out into the fields seems wildly unlikely.

[Treashunt]

It could have been struck through a solid object, or grease within the recesses of the die.

 

Then it would be indented

[cpm9ball]

Welcome to the neighborhood!

 

If it is a strikethrough or lamination defect, it seems unlikely that you would find any mention of this on the VAMWorld site. In all likelihood, it is a one-time occurrence that wouldn't be listed in the descriptions.

 

Chris

[grip]

According to the coin doctor, apply ketoconazole twice a day, and your lamination will go away:)

[AcesKings]

Not sure if these will help anymore, or just confuse the matter more, but here's more pics to get a better (maybe) idea of whats on the coin. I did have to adjust the contrast and brightness to get it to show better.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

it seems unlikely that you would find any mention of this on the VAMWorld site.

 

I realized this after seeing some of the pics shown for this VAM. Some show die chips , where mine only shows cracks. So, mine would be an earlier die state. I just thought if this was part of the variation, it would be a clear cut die marker.

[WoodenJefferson]

Is it possible to have a defective planchet where the recesses of the coin die shears the lamination along the edge of the recesses, exposing the underlying surface as the die pulls away but yet bonds any lamination of the metal occurring in the fields?

 

Your looking at maybe .0005 of an inch thickness of metal which would be considered a flake.

[AcesKings]

I think this is kind of what SuperDave was suggesting. One other thing that leads me to believe its a lamination over a strike through (at least a grease strike through) is how clear and sharp the M. for the designer's initial is. For a grease strike through at least, I think it would've been washed out or deleted entirely. IF, it is a lamination cut off with the die edges, the "M" would've cut through too. Yes.....no?

[SuperDave]

Not to mention, I'm not comfortable with the idea of a greaser having such a sharp demarcation at its' edge; this one looks to have a physical depth dimension whereas I'd expect grease to have more of a "tapering off" effect.

[AcesKings]

I've been thinking of everything that was said here, and came up with another possibility. That is, this may be a secondary coin. i.e. the coin struck prior to this one took the brunt of the mishap (strike through or lamination from itself) leaving the neck portion of the lamination or strike through remaining in the die, which was then struck onto my coin. This would explain how mine has the clean fields around the area.