I think I got something good here.

[wdrob]

I think my second attempt at searching through the pennies my Dad sent out here to me has finally potentially paid off.

 

Keep in mind that these pennies were wrapped without creases with aluminum foil and then placed inside my baby food jars back in the middle sixties so they were very well preserved for the most part.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok. Now to the meat and potatoes. Keep in mind that these images are taken by using one of those USB Microscopes and zoomed in quite a way.

 

 

 

 

 

------ Intermission ------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That penny should easily grade higher that a 65. I submitted a 1959 that was imperfect to a degree and definatley compared to this one and it graded MS66.

 

 

 

[Coindude]

Are you sure that's not machine doubling? I'm no double die expert but it sure looks like machine doubling to me.

[BillJones]

The doubled part is flat, not rounded, which would led me to call it machine doubling.

[wheat'swheats]

I agree machine doubling

wheat

[johnny9434]

looks like machine doubling to me. jmo

[wdrob]

 

Well I don't know but I saw some doubling with the 5x loupe so I looked it up and it had this to say:

 

1980 DDO 1C FS-101

 

Variety Diagnostics

Distinct doubling is visible in LIBERTY and the date.

 

What I presented to you only affects LIBERTY and the date. They offer two example pictures and the example pictures are just like what I see when I am magnified out to about where they are.

 

 

 

 

This is their example image:

 

 

This is my image:

 

This is their other example:

 

This is my image:

 

 

I am no expert, as we all know, but hell in most states evidence like this would get you 30 to Life.

 

I actually find it hard to believe that given the definition of the variety given above, which I feel confident was looked up by all that responded prior to putting the pen to paper, and the fact that this only affects these two areas it would simply be discounted as ..... I can't even remember what you fella's wrote it off as now ..... Oh Machine Doubling. And how does machine doubling only affect two places on the entire penny I will have to research and learn something.

 

Amazingly coincidental I suppose.

 

Ok. Cary on.... in the trash box goes another penny.

 

Thanks for the opinions.

 

 

[wdrob]

I found a web site that has a great amount of good information and clear picture examples for me to learn more about this. I have also found that the USB Microscope, while using the built in LED lighting, seems to distort what is actually present.

 

I need to find a better lighting set up for this type of thing. I have taken a couple of pictures without that LED built in lighting and in those you can actually see that it is rounded and not flat so I may not throw this penny in the trash box as of yet.

 

But back to studying for now.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

[wheat'swheats]

Look at the 0 in 80 at how your's is perfectly round and the one you use as a comparison illustrates that it has a bulge to the north east. The 8 is the same way. I think you will see in your photo it also has a perfect circle with in the o and your comparison photo, which I think comes from "TheLincoln cent resource" Does not. I may be wrong but in all my years of collecting, and of all double dies I have seen the only ones that I can recall with 100% doubling of letters and numbers has been the 55 dd and the 72dd, and all those have the doubling going off to the NE and not in a perfect circle as with the 0 in the 80.

wheat

[wdrob]

I actually got those screeen schots and information from here at NGC. If you click on the 1980 in the NGC Coin Explorer toy will find the same info.

 

I actually do see the 0 not 'perfectly round' but elongated to the NE like you said the other did but just not to the same extent.

 

At first it was stated that it must be Machine Doubling because it was flat and not rounded. Once I removed that intense light what do you have? Rounded just like I was told indicated DDO.

 

If you look at the example picture at the LIBERTY you will see that the I, actually the LIB, are all not rounded but actually a ledge. Given that then one would come to the conclusion that NGC's example is not a DDO after all. But we know that it is.

 

I did read that Machine Doubling can occur in just a couple of places and not effect the entire coins. I learned this much however it is still inescapable that:

 

1.) There is some sort of doubling going on with the coin that I presented.

2.) I do not have a Stereo Microscope to get better pictures to gain greater detail without losing resolution and becoming grainy.

3.) A DDO exists that is associated with the 1980 and that DDO only effects LIBERTY and the date according to the description.

4.) I have a 1980 penny that has some sort of obvious anomalies that effect only LIBERTY and the date.

 

Yet the preponderance of the evidence seems to point to this being Machine Doubling and not the DDO referenced. Hmmm.

 

OK. Bring in the alternate Casey Anthony jury please.

 

Seriously though I have no clue but I am tempted to buy one of those Stereo Microscopes, one of the good ones like Bones on TV uses, just for occasions such as this. Surely I am going to be running into this in the future fro time to time.

 

I have a bunch more 80's over here in a pile amongst other pennies so maybe I will get back to work on them and see if I can find a better one.

 

[wdrob]

Ok. How about this one?

 

This is described as:

 

1984 D DDO 1C FS-101

 

Variety Diagnostics

Minor doubling is evident at the date.

 

 

 

Surely this qualifies for the above liberal description.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Coindude]

I honestly don't see anything on either of those that would lead me to believe they are double dies. Keep looking though and don't give up.

[wdrob]

Ok. Will do.

 

It's all about the hunt......Well sorta.

[Mark T]

The most exciting time for me was when I was a kid going through rolls of coins in my father’s drug store. The highlight for me was when I found a 1909 VDB .

[copper toning]

I have owned 2 NGC 64RD 1980 DDO FS-101 and I do still currently own one of them.

 

I can assure the coin you found is not a doubled die, but is machine doubling.

 

Besides the machine doulbling your coin is doubled in the wrong direction.

 

Still an interesting find. It make a great show piece next to the real deal. Therefore you should keep it until maybe you have one to display alongside.

 

I did once own a 1980 ddo with envirormental damage I found in change I beieve I sold it on ebay for around 40-60 bucks. Found a 1982 no p dime in the same week. Never found anything again.

[wdrob]

 

I still have many pennies to go through and to be honest I didn't think it would be so draining of a task. I have learned quite a bit of what to look for like if I pick up a 1999 or a 2000 look for 'Wide AM' ... stuff like that. Stuff I was not familiar with before starting this quest.

 

If you are into copper and very knowledgeable in that area of Wheat and Memorial Pennies then maybe I should PM you some time soon with some questions on what all I have found I believe to be worth more than a couple of dollars so far.

 

 

[wdrob]

The most exciting time for me was when I was a kid going through rolls of coins in my father’s drug store. The highlight for me was when I found a 1909 VDB .

 

Didn't have an -S on it did it?

 

Yep.......The hunt. And not knowing what you might find.

[KeeNoooo]

I used to buy a box of pennies every week from the bank and would see a lot of machine doubling on pennies. The most exciting ones were the cuds! Still looking for that 84 double ear tho.....

[wdrob]

I am to the point that I wish they would discontinue the penny and I would never again see one in my lifetime!

 

Hard work going through all these pennies. What makes it worse is that we had one of those BIG water bottles for a water cooler here that was about 1/8th full of pennies and I was not aware of. That might not seem like many pennies but those are big containers. I have spent four days about three hours a day going through pennies, Whew!

 

I still have a couple of large double handfuls here that I am about to get started on again.

 

Pick up penny > Look through 5x loupe > Find something funny > Switch to 25x loupe > Still funny > Check NGC Coin Explorer for any details > >Put on the USB microscope > Awww hell....it's nothing > Repeat process!

 

 

 

[coinman1794]

You have a Very Late Die State 1980 cent with classic die fatigue "doubling." I cannot tell if there is any actual doubling on the digits because they are so heavily eroded, but I can see enough to tell you that, if there is, it does not match the diagnostics on DDO FS-101.

[wdrob]

I cannot tell if there is any actual doubling on the digits because they are so heavily eroded, but I can see enough to tell you that, if there is, it does not match the diagnostics on DDO FS-101.

 

Heavily eroded? Where are you seeing erosion? That penny was like the day it came out of a coin roll. If you are talking about the way it looks under magnification then that is not erosion at all .... it is a cheap USB Microscope.

 

I have learned to use it much better now with some different software and not the junk that came with it that I was using to take those initial pictures.

 

Here are a couple better example pictures since I have got that other software and learned how to use it a bit better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think much better imaging than using that other software. Maybe I will dig that 1980 Penny back out and try and get some better pictures on it but I doubt it.

 

[ldhair]

I cannot tell if there is any actual doubling on the digits because they are so heavily eroded, but I can see enough to tell you that, if there is, it does not match the diagnostics on DDO FS-101.

 

Heavily eroded? Where are you seeing erosion? That penny was like the day it came out of a coin roll. If you are talking about the way it looks under magnification then that is not erosion at all .... it is a cheap USB Microscope.

 

I have learned to use it much better now with some different software and not the junk that came with it that I was using to take those initial pictures.

 

Here are a couple better example pictures since I have got that other software and learned how to use it a bit better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think much better imaging than using that other software. Maybe I will dig that 1980 Penny back out and try and get some better pictures on it but I doubt it.

I'm sure he was saying the die was eroded.

[coinman1794]

I cannot tell if there is any actual doubling on the digits because they are so heavily eroded, but I can see enough to tell you that, if there is, it does not match the diagnostics on DDO FS-101.

 

 

[/size]

I'm sure he was saying the die was eroded.

 

Yes, and I also used the term die fatigue. This is not a doubled die, it shows the elusion of doubling due to erosion of the die.

 

Information about die fatigue doubling can be found on page 325 of the Cherrypciker's Guide, 5th Edition Volume 1, and on page 446 of the Cherrypciker's Guide, 5th Edition Volume 2.

 

"Die fatigue is very often confused with a doubled die. In general, as a die deteriorates, the letters and/or numbers develop wear, causing a secondary image..." pg 325 5th Ed., Vol 1.