ANACS on eBay by BULLY

[CSJournals-migration]

I know NGC and PCGS are the top tier coin graders.

 

I'm not sure how familiar everyone is with eBay's policies for selling graded coins.

 

NUTSHELL: In the past, coins couldn't be listed as "certified" nor could they be listed with a numeric grade unless they were graded by NGC or PCGS (or NCS, and appropriate details grade).

 

For coins that were graded by ANACS, ICG (or companies that are notably worse than ANACS and ICG), the rules prohibited sellers from calling the coins "certified" or something like that.

 

Apparently, that's changed, and ANACS is now included with NGC and PCGS in the category of what may be listed as certified coins. I was surprised because along with ANACS, ICG was also added to the list. Here is the link to the policy:

 

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/currstamps.html#graded

 

So, here's my question to the group, and please feel free to answer publicly, or reply directly to me:

 

Has grading at ANACS improved to the point where ANACS slabbed coins are considered acceptable to collectors? Would you buy an ANACS slabbed coin? If so, under ANY circumstances, or only in limited cases, and if it's under limited circumstances, what are they?

 

Along the same lines, would you submit coins to ANACS for grading? If so, are there any particular coins you'd submit, or would you submit any coins?

 

I ask these questions for a couple of reasons:

 

1. I haven't been following the industry too closely over the last year or two, so I honestly don't know if there have been any seriously changes at ANACS. Obviously, my preferred TPG company is still NGC. I know most collectors probably still prefer either NGC or PCGS, or use the two interchangeably. However, this gets into the second part of why I'm asking.

 

2. A dear friend of mine has just learned that her aging father has quite the hoard of Peace Dollars, Morgan Dollars, and halves, which start from silver Kennedy and apparently date back to at least Walking Liberty series. The large dollars alone apparently number in the hundreds, and as our texts continued overnight, more things kept popping out of the woodwork, so to speak.

 

The first thing I'm doing is getting her some 2.5"x2.5" pvc-free flips, for when she CAN finally afford grading.

 

That said, she's a waitress and her dad lives on Social Security, so spending $17/coin at NGC is just out of the question. I have presented the idea of pre-selecting coins to submit, the ones which are likely to be the most valuable based on date/mintmark combinations, and condition of course, but even then, her finances will dictate how many she can submit and how frequently.

 

I know ANACS often has sales/special offers, and their grading fees are a bit lower than NGC, so with ANACS showing up among the grading companies that eBay seems to be recognizing where they haven't in years past, I'm wondering if it might be worth submitting some of the other coins to ANACS.

 

Anyone have experience or knowledge about ANACS and their coin grading as it stands today in the marketplace? How about their coins and do they sell?

 

If it's a waste of time and money to even consider it -- that's fine. I know a couple of years ago, I wouldn't have considered mentioning it to my friend. The bottom line is that I'm trying to ascertain whether or not that's changed.

 

Hope that made sense, as I'm getting close to bed time.

 

Mike B.

 

See more journals by BULLY

[jpcienkus]

Let me first say that I am no expert, but I want to give you a relatively new collectors perspective on the topic.

 

Do I look at ANACS coins? On occasion, but only if there are no NGC or PCGS coins in that date or mint mark. Then I would study the coin very hard to make sure it meets the grade listed. Then I wouldn't be willing to pay anything over bid. The only ANACS coins I own are some presidential dollars. That's it.

 

I hope others chime in about ANACS, because from what I've read on these boards, their early year slabs are more strictly graded, so they are worth a look. The problem still is market return. Even if I thought the coin deserved the grade, I would not pay as much for an ANACS coin.

 

I think you'd be making a mistake sending the coins to them for grading. The additional cost to grade at NGC and PCGS will be made up when you sell the coin. Just my opinion.

[BULLY]

For a new collector, I think your thoughts on the matter are quite astute. You're on the right track, and your thoughts are about where mine are, and I've been collecting for the better part of 36 years, give or take.

 

You're correct about some some of the OLD ANACS slabs -- there's nothing wrong with them. In fact, you may or may not know that ANACS was originally started as part of the ANA -- the ANA in ANACS coming from the American Numismatic Association in fact.

 

I have a number of old coins in old ANACS holders, and I have no intention of ditching them since NGC won't take them as crossover, I'd have to crack them out and submit them as raw, when in reality, they're perfectly legit. However, I digress, this isn't about me, it's about my friend and her dad's coins.

 

Anyway, like you, I don't seek out ANACS coins. I have, however, picked up some ANACS slabbed coins when the price was right. I took a different path than you. Rather than presidential dollars, I went for ANACS graded silver coins like Silver Eagle coins. I didn't care what the coin looked like, what mattered to me was the PRICE. Over the last several years before silver went really nuts, there were times that I was able to snag a Silver Eagle in an ANACS holder for melt value (even occasionally less on an eBay auction). Granted, some had black spots or unattractive toning, but they're in a holder guaranteeing authenticity, and they're an ounce of silver - at cost, with no charge for the holder. I consider that a fair deal. I snagged some similar deals based on the silver value in some half dollars and whatnot, again sticking only to MELT (or less), occassionally splurging a bit over melt if it was a matter of losing the coin for a bid that was 50cents over mine.

 

I think you're correct, that nothing has changed about ANACS in the marketplace, and that's really what I needed to know. It's JUST NOT WORTH submitting any of the coins to ANACS for grading.

[jpcienkus]

Thanks Mike.

 

The Presidential Dollars I bought were 2008 and 2009 PF70 DCAM in ANACS holders. I got all eight for approximately $8.70 per coin. I also own the 2007 in PF70 UC, but they are in NGC slabs. I bought those for approximately $14.40 per coin. I bought all the sets well below market price in Dec 2012. I've since tried to find the remaining years in PF70, but the asking prices are way too high. This is not the focus of my collecting, but eventually, I'd like to get all the years in PF70 UC. I'm in no hurry, so I'm sure I'll get them at a decent price. I think the place to pick them up would be coin shows vs. eBay.

 

My main focus are Morgan's. I want a coin that has both PM and Numismatic value. I agree with your ASE purchases. If you can get them around melt & slabbed, you can't go wrong.

 

Good luck with your friends cache of coins. Did you already send them a Red Book so they can determine which ones should be considered for grading?

 

Joe

[e1cnr]

tell her NOT to try and clean or get the dirt or tarnish off of anything, as it will severly cut their value.

 

ANACS and ICG are now eBay approved because they supply online certification number verification.

 

ANACS being used by some because they are faster and less expensive than other 2 big ones. Great for varieties and VAMs.

 

That being said, without seeing them, how do you know if any are worth the cost of submission? (or will increase their value more than a nice eBay raw picture?)

[Mohawk]

Bully,

I've been doing this seriously for about 14 years now, and here's my thoughts: The old ANACS holders, the ones with the white inserts that basically look like baby NGC holders are perfectly fine. Their grading was strict enough then that there's no problems. But I don't think I'd send anything in to them now. I know Ebay approves them and ICG now, but I'd still say they're below NGC in quality. Being that I'm mainly a World Coin collector, I ONLY buy NGC graded coins as I know PCGS graded World Coins average at least a 2 point hit when you try to cross them here. But you're discussing US Coins. I think that your thoughts were right. Send the more valuable coins here to NGC. If you're talking about common-date Morgan and Peace dollars or things like that, ANACS should do if you're just trying to grade them and sell them. Or, better yet, sell them raw. There's not much point to grading circulated common date Morgans and things like that if you're just looking to sell them. They'll sell. But if your friend wants to keep them and grade them for herself, I'd probably recommend that she send them in to NGC as she can afford to do so. It doesn't have to be done overnight, and I think that in the long run she'll be happier with NGC grading than anyone else.

[Yankeejose]

This is all just my opinion. From my experience ANACS in general is fairly accurate with their grading of older coins. That said if a Morgan dollar comes back as MS65 or MS66 I would not expect it to go for anywhere close to the same money as a coin with the same grade from NGC or PCGS. It could end up re-graded by NGC and come back a point or 2 lower. For that reason the coin collector community in general does not look at current ANACS graded coins as equal in market value as NGC/PCGS coins. If the coins come in as lower grade MS they would be sellable at a price better than a raw coin because it has been verified authentic, not cleaned or damaged. The big risk is if they come back as cleaned or damaged then the sellable price probably would not exceed the melt value, grading costs and EBay/auction selling fees. The same would apply for circulated less common date Morgans even if not cleaned or damaged. So as you mentioned you would need to find circulated tougher dates without issues or MS common dates that you are sure have not been cleaned. I know for me I am still not 100% confident some coins have not been cleaned. I see a lot of Morgan and Peace dollars in coin dealer junk buckets whose main issue is cleaning/polishing. It seems a lot people at some point in the past felt coins needed to be dipped, whizzed or polished. In summary if you have the confidence to pick out the quality original coins, ANACS would be the cheaper bet to identify coins that could have a better resale value than selling them raw. If some come back especially nice they could always be cracked out and sent to NGC in the future to increase the selling value.

[timward75]

in my opinion anacs is a better grading company than ngc

i feel ngc selling out to the coin network has hurt the coin market and their reputation

[Mr Bo Jingles]

If you want a solid $ for the coins I would definitely go NGC or PCGS.

 

I'm kind of torn with what I am about to say, but it is from my own experience only and not indicative of this company's overall performance. If I was just getting the coins graded to sell I would probably go PCGS because you may and I mean MAY get a better grade from PCGS as NGC is very conservative on their grading.

 

I know this from PCGS coins I have tried to cross. About half wouldn't cross and instead of crossing them at whatever level NGC gave me I just sold them on ebay. As a side note, when I sent a couple of the coins to NGC for crossover I thought the coins looked a grade lower than what PCGS gave them. I came to that conclusion using the ANA Grading Standards book I have.

 

Good Luck!

 

Bo

[The Fielding Collection]

I had about 6 coins that I bought in my first few months of collecting graded by anacs even before I knew what NGC was. Myself being somewhat anal about all my coins being in the same type slab and graded by the same company I carefully opened the anacs slabs and sent them in for grading here at NGC 4 of the 6 coins came back details improperly cleaned. Now I only look at NGC slabbed coins because I simply don't have the money to waste on any other coins IMHO NGC or a pcgs coin that looks as if it will keep its grade is the ONLY way to go. I know the upfront prices are a little higher you will gain much more in the long run.

Happy Collecting and may God Bless....Mike

[Mohawk]

I know this topic is three years old, but I found it again and I would like to voice my changed opinion. I've recently started doing business with ANACS again, and from what I've seen they've really tightened the screws there. I'd actually say that they're overall the strictest of the services now. I've done some experiments by sending coins, both US and World and both Modern and Classic, to ANACS and NGC, and in many cases, NGC graded a point or two higher than ANACS did. They also had many even crosses between the two.

 

Though I am no PCGS fan, I did include the few PCGS coins I had in this experiment. Both NGC and ANACS downgraded PCGS in all cases. One coin, a very scarce zinc German coin I bought already graded by PCGS, really hurt!! PCGS called it MS 62. ANACS called it AU 53 and NGC gave it UNC details-environmental damage!!

 

I now think that a lot of NGC and PCGS's dominance of the marketplace is due to two things: market perception, that may or may not be deserved and the fact that one needs NGC or PCGS graded coins for the Registries. As far as grading goes, I feel ANACS is strongly back on track and I feel as confident with them as I do with NGC. I hope that the market perception changes so that ANACS once again gets the respect that I strongly feel they deserve. I'll be doing business with both ANACS and NGC going forward and I hope that some of you here will give them a chance as well!

 

~Tom

[coinman1794]

We recently did an ANACS submission of variety coins in more affordable grades (coins where it made no sense to pay the $38 for PCGS grading and variety), and we were very impressed by the tight and consistent grading we received.

[Mohawk]

Coinman,

That is great to hear!! I really feel ANACS is poised for a comeback and I'm so glad to hear others are seeing the value in ANACS as well. As I stated above, I plan on doing business with both ANACS and NGC from now on. Since I sell a lot of Registry pieces, my selling business will likely go to NGC but I like ANACS for my personal collection and selling pieces that have an audience outside of Registry collecting. But to me, both NGC and ANACS are great and their standards seem to be very similar to one another. As for PCGS, well, I have less use for them now than I ever have.....and I had no use for them before. As I hope ANACS gains the respect I feel they deserve, I also hope that the hobby starts seeing PCGS in its proper light......as the least strict of the three major services.