Letter from Dan Brown re: 1964-D Peace Dollars

[CaptHenway]

Below is a letter to me from Dan Brown, who was a major coin dealer in Denver for many decades.

 

It does not mean that any 1964-D Peace dollars exist today. They may or may not still exist. It only means that the oft-told story that 1964-D Peace dollars were sold to employees on the day they were struck, and then recalled, is credible.

 

TD

[CaptHenway]

[CaptHenway]

[Deerefan8420]

Hmmmm! That's quite interesting right there. I think PCGS has a "Reward" for anyone who can show them a genuine 1964-D Dollar.

 

Here's the link: http://www.pcgs.com/top100/reward.aspx

 

It makes one wonder why no one has come forward with it yet. If they are out there, as this letter suggests, then why not come out and show it off? Could it be that the Mint Employee who stashed a few away is waiting for the perfect time or could that person be afraid of some type of punishment from the Government for not returning the coins that were supposed to be returned to the Mint?

[CaptHenway]

[MarkFeld]

Hi Tom,

 

I have been reading the thread on the other forum, as well.

 

How do you feel about the assertion that the coins could not have been available for purchase by Mint employees at the cashier's cage (during that short window of opportunity), so soon after they were produced?

 

Thanks.

[TonerGuy]

Wouldnt have the Mint put out a recall notice to its employees to bring them back, even if they were purchased legally ?

 

I think many wouldnt risk a FT job with benefits for 2 dollars....

 

[CaptHenway]

All I know is that in many aspects of life there are different ways that things get done. As some perhaps-mythical Army Drill Sargeant once said to a batch of new recruits: "There are four ways to do things in this man's Army! There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, the Army Way and MY WAY! We will do things MY WAY!"

 

Silver dollars were always popular out West. If some worker said "Wow, these are cool! Can I buy a few of them?" and somebody up the chain of command said "Sure. See the Cashier on the way out," it could have happened, no matter what the Suits wanted.

 

Perhaps it was S.O.P. that employees could buy new production. I don't know.

 

However, if we were to ask the Mint today if it was S.O.P. in 1965 that employees could buy new production, I don't know if I could trust the answer. First of all, there is probably nobody left that would know. Secondly, considering the long-running controversy over this question, they might not feel that it was in their best interest to answer the question in any manner other than the "current truth."

 

 

Hi Tom,

 

I have been reading the thread on the other forum, as well.

 

How do you feel about the assertion that the coins could not have been available for purchase by Mint employees at the cashier's cage (during that short window of opportunity), so soon after they were produced?

 

Thanks.

[johnny9434]

im wondering if this has been authenticated in any way, shape of form? just wondering is all

[CaptHenway]

If what has been authenticated?

 

im wondering if this has been authenticated in any way, shape of form? just wondering is all

[RWB]

A little background might help. First: read the lengthy chapter on 1964-D dollars in “A Guide Book of Peace Dollars.” Second: analyze rather than speculate.

 

Mr. Brown claimed to have seen one of the coins in 1970; but more detailed versions of “events” seemed to have appeared after Mrs. Miller’s death.

 

Fern V. Miller –

b. Nov. 29, 1893

d. Feb. 12, 1981, age 88

 

Appointed Superintendent of Denver Mint, 1961

("According to the most excellent Coin World Almanac, Miller served as superintendent from May 19, 1961, to July 31, 1967." - provided by TD in a PCGS post.)

At appointment she was 68 years old.

Only prior experience was in political circles.

 

Brown’s letter postdates Miller’s death by 15 years. Contains no date references or verifiable sources. Contradicts all normal mint practices including those used successfully at Denver in producing Kennedy half dollars. Letter likely expresses what Mr. Brown believed to be true, but that does not make it accurate or factual.

 

People often remember events which did not occur, or which happened to others. Consider – many more people remember being at Woodstock than were actually there. “Presence by association.” This is a normal human phenomenon which helps connect individuals with events that they deem important. (It also includes temporal compression and reordering, and social memory adoption. These are part of why legal witnesses give testimony individually and without hearing the statements of other witnesses.)

 

[CaptHenway]

Now Roger, don't get all upset. Go back and read my first post in this thread.

[RWB]

Now Roger, don't get all upset. Go back and read my first post in this thread.

 

"It only means that the oft-told story that 1964-D Peace dollars were sold to employees on the day they were struck, and then recalled, is credible."

 

 

"Credible?" Hmmmm - how definitions change….

 

Reality is that the Denver Mint's own accounting and internal memoranda show that the much-quoted quantity of pieces struck was, and remains, only an estimate. Some might have gotten out by unknown means. With no verification of any “sighting,” it all comes down to BS. (I hope PCGS finds one, or that one gets donated to the Smithsonian where it can be protected and appreciated, not rolled out and melted like Mr. Hunter at the Mint Bureau did.)

 

Mr. Brown's "recollection" is one of the least credible scenarios - it requires the complicity of several hundred mint workers, semi-public announcement within the Denver Mint and then another to "recall" pieces, and a complete breakdown of standard procedures that had worked successfully only a year earlier with the Kennedy half.

 

It's a nice memento and curiosity from a now-departed Denver coin dealer. As a factual description, it fails the tests for credibility at every turn.

 

PS: At the Denver Mint, there were 42 people involved with the silver dollars, plus three Secret Service agents.

 

[robec1347]

Are there any numbers as to how many mint workers took advantage of purchasing their limit of 2 coins?

 

I don't imagine the total sold would be too large of a number.

 

That being the case how hard could it have been to make sure each coin returned was accounted for by number and employee?

[CaptHenway]

And I've been lied to too many times by the Mint to consider them credible, so I cannot accept their version of history as the one true truth.

 

You may believe them if you wish, but you cannot demand that others believe them.

 

 

 

Now Roger, don't get all upset. Go back and read my first post in this thread.

 

"It only means that the oft-told story that 1964-D Peace dollars were sold to employees on the day they were struck, and then recalled, is credible."

 

 

"Credible?" Hmmmm - how definitions change….

 

Reality is that the Denver Mint's own accounting and internal memoranda show that the much-quoted quantity of pieces struck was, and remains, only an estimate. Some might have gotten out by unknown means. With no verification of any “sighting,” it all comes down to BS. (I hope PCGS finds one, or that one gets donated to the Smithsonian where it can be protected and appreciated, not rolled out and melted like Mr. Hunter at the Mint Bureau did.)

 

Mr. Brown's "recollection" is one of the least credible scenarios - it requires the complicity of several hundred mint workers, semi-public announcement within the Denver Mint and then another to "recall" pieces, and a complete breakdown of standard procedures that had worked successfully only a year earlier with the Kennedy half.

 

It's a nice memento and curiosity from a now-departed Denver coin dealer. As a factual description, it fails the tests for credibility at every turn.

 

PS: At the Denver Mint, there were 42 people involved with the silver dollars, plus three Secret Service agents.

[CaptHenway]

Interesting video of Mr. Lantz on YouTube

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1DZbVBVHpcw

 

According to this, the Mint was striking 1964-D dollars for multiple calendar days before getting the order to stop production.

 

Let's assume for the sake of argument that they began production on "Day A" and that on that day sent some off to Washington. How many days would it take for the package to reach Washington and get noticed. At least one, and very easily more than one. That means that the 1964-D dollars were in the Denver Mint for at least two calendar days before word came from Washington to stop. This greatly increases the window of opportunity in which some of the coins might (hypothetically) have been sold to employees or otherwise distributed.

 

Mr. Lantz seems to indicate that nobody in Denver Mint thought that the coins were anything special before the word to stop production came through. Does anybody else agree with that interpretation of his remarks?

 

TD

[RWB]

"And I've been lied to too many times by the Mint to consider them credible, so I cannot accept their version of history as the one true truth."

 

Sorry to be blunt, Tom, but you've got so much emotional baggage invested in this letter that you aren't thinking rationally. It has become a faith-like belief rather than one built on reason. For example, walk through this one little piece from Mr. Brown’s letter (ignoring Mr. Brown's incorrect dates and times):

 

1. Superintendent Miller allows any mint employee to buy 2 new silver dollars at face value from the cashier’s office.

2. Five or six hours later, the Superintendent rescinds permission and wants all the coins returned.

3. Most but not all returned.

 

A. How does the Superintendent notify 300 employees of this decision? Written memo? PA announcement? Runners to each department? What about third-shift employees who went home at 8am? How does the Cashier get 600+ coins when everyone agrees they were never counted? How do the coins get from the Tramway building to the Cashier without appearing on a transfer order from the Coining department to the Superintendent’s General department? Workers did not have cash on the production floor. How did workers get to their lockers at arbitrary times? Where are the department sign-in/sign-out logs – required for those handling precious metals?

B. How does the Superintendent notify 300 employees of this new decision? Written memo? PA announcement? Runners to each department? What about Melting & Refining employees who were finished at 2 or 3 pm? Workers did not have cash on the production floor. How did workers get to their lockers to retrieve the coins at arbitrary times, then back to put away their dollar bills? Where are the department sign-in/sign-out logs – required for those handling precious metals? How do the returned coins get from the Cashier back to the Tramway building without appearing on a transfer order from the Superintendent’s General department to the Coining department?

C. The Cashier would have known exactly how many coins were not returned. He had to count them to start with, and had to balance the money collected with the coins given out. How was this discrepancy reconciled? (Also, re: “switched with 1934 silver dollars;” how many people carried a silver dollar or two to work with them every day on the chance they might be able to exchange them for a new one at work?)

D. How does the Superintendent keep all of this activity quiet so that not one employee spills the beans? As before, how is this “gag order” conveyed and enforced?

 

All of these questions and many more have to be answered. The balance can be taken apart in a similar manner. The result is that none of it holds up to scrutiny: the conclusions are not credible, plus it adds nothing to a story circulating long before the 1996 date.

 

“It's tough to see truth with the eyes closed.” (Old Irish saying)

 

 

[RWB]

“It appears that a few setup trial pieces were struck on May 13 and 14. This is consistent with Mr. Lantz’ comments in his article:

 

‘The first days, production was slow. Very limited numbers of dollars were struck. None were turned over to the Cash Division which shipped coin to the Federal Reserve Banks. All of them were secured in the tramway building under lock and seal…’

 

“Superintendent Miller ordered ten more pairs of dollar dies on May 14. Production trials began on May 15 and continued through May 24.”

 

PS: Every living person associated with dollar production in May 1965 was interviewed in person for the Peace Dollar book. They provided no information differing from Mr. Lantz' or available records.

 

[CaptHenway]

I am not the only one with "emotional baggage" concerning the 1964-D Peace dollars. Many people have a very strong agenda when it comes to defending their position on the coins. That does not mean that they are correct.

 

--.

 

What did you think of Mr. Lantz's comments linked above? Do you know what date that production began? Do you know how many days elapsed between the beginning of production and the sudden cessession of production?

 

(Edited to add: I see that you answered that question as I was typing. Thank you.)

 

Do you have any idea why employees were required to sign a piece of paper verifying that they did not have any of the coins? Has that ever been S.O.P. in any U.S. Mint?

[Zoins]

Every living person associated with dollar production in May 1965 was interviewed in person for the Peace Dollar book. They provided no information differing from Mr. Lantz' or available records.

 

Great to know Roger. This is the type of research I like (thumbs u

[RWB]

Do you have any idea why employees were required to sign a piece of paper verifying that they did not have any of the coins? Has that ever been S.O.P. in any U.S. Mint?

 

OK…this is kind of long, but here goes….

 

Yes. Prior to starting work, Superintendent Miller was instructed by telex from Director Adams to be certain that all procedures were followed and to be especially careful that no pieces left the Denver Mint until official notice was given. Second, after production stopped and after Congress had ripped into Adams (the ire of Congress was not a pleasant thing), Miller was told to make a complete accounting of the coins including everyone connected with the work. That order is the origin of the asst. Coiner's process flow diagram (with silver weights), the affidavits, Secret Service participation, and destruction orders. (Note: Mr. Lantz' name is not on the affidavits because he worked elsewhere in the Denver Mint and was not involved in the Peace dollar project. Did Mr. Lantz not get the “memo” about buying 2 silver dollars?)

 

A big hole in the Denver Mint’s reckoning is that the number of pieces stated as having been struck was an estimate based on ideal coin weight. Further, it was only accurate to two decimal places – at a time when four decimal place weights were common. Lastly, the weight of coins and blanks melted was stated as being exactly equal to the weight of bars cast from the metal – as anyone working with metal will confirm, such a result is impossible. Thus, Miller, Adams and Treasury wanted something to help cover their butts, and an affidavit signed by everyone involved sure helped.

 

Affidavits were S.O.P. required for all die and coin destruction, for vault contents, and anything out of the ordinary. Transfer Orders were used to show the chain of custody inside and outside of each department and from the Superintendent to another mint of HQ. All transfer orders were dated and signed.

 

Each department was independent of the others and performed its work in isolation. Each department kept its own journals of materials including losses during metal operations. The Coining department was subdivided into independent operations and there were transfer journals that showed what went into, and came out of, each operation. For example, blanks were cut each day and delivered to the upsetting operation; there was a transfer log from “blanking” to “upsetting” showing the weight of material. At the end of the day, any large excess of blanks held by the upsetting operation were transferred back to the blanking operation as a journal entry called a “weigh back.” (Apologies to Mr. Peabody and Sherman.) The same process controlled all operations internal to the Coining department through weighing, counting, bagging, etc. up to the point where the Coiner delivered legal coinage to the Superintendent (the General department). As before, the delivery order and delivery number recorded the transfer from Coiner to Superintendent.

 

This was paper intensive, but it helped avoid problems by establishing clear control of precious metals and coins. These were considered to be temporary records and most were discarded after a few years. Enough of these exist, however, for use to understand what happened and why.

 

(PS: During gold era operations, this segregation extended to limiting each operation to a single denomination of coin until production was complete for that denomination. I.e.: only double eagle blanks were cut until enough had been made to complete the order. Then blanking switched entirely to another denomination; there was no going back and making a few more. This helps us understand why off-metal errors are so scarce in that era.)

 

[CaptHenway]

That is very informative. Thank you.

 

And I love the "weigh back" reference!

[RWB]

Political Sidebar—

 

Readers should understand that Treasury had been opposed to making more silver dollars from the time the idea come up in 1962. It was Congress that appropriated the funds and insisted on production.

 

Treasury delayed as long as they could until Sen. Mansfield threatened to hold the Coinage Bill of 1965 hostage until he got his coins. The appropriation was due to expire with the fiscal year at the end of June, 1965. President Johnson ordered the Treasury to strike as many as possible before June 30. The mint estimated it could make about 7 million dollars, but warned the coins would be grabbed by speculators.

 

Once the President announced the coinage, opponents mustered sufficient objections to hold hearings in the House on May 23-24. At these, Mint Director Adams was grilled, fried, dissected and broiled -- something she expected because Treasury staff had given informal briefings to certain opponents of the coins. The telex to stop work went out about noon on May 24.

 

The dollar coins died. Mansfield was checkmated and had to support the coinage bill (he got 40% silver halves out of it). Congress looked like it was protecting the public treasure, and Johnson got the best of them all by getting exactly what he wanted - the clad coinage.

 

[CaptHenway]

An aside for those of you too young to remember TELEX machines:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telex

 

A variety of this system once made upn the dealer-to-dealer network. You typed up your messages on paper tape, waited for your turn for access, and fed the paper tape into the reader.

 

Perhaps the telephone message to "STOP!" that Mr. Lantz recalls came from within the Denver Mint, from whomever received the TELEX message from Washington.

[RWB]

Yep!

 

A telex was high-tech, and press releases were typed onto mimeograph masters, and printed on paper. "cc" meant "carbon copy" at the bottom of a letter that was mailed for 4-cents and arrived the next day. Having your own office "dictaphone" meant you had arrived in business.

[RWB]

To MsMorrisine’s questions:

1. The Woodstock association was identified by sociologists many years ago and it is documented in several research papers. This occurs with every great societal event and in most societies. Researchers find people who were infants claiming to have attended or participated. Some of this comes from association with cultural memories and images; some comes from wanting to connect to important parts of a culture.

2. Assistant coiner stated that 277,065.3 Troy oz of planchets were struck. At 0.8594 T oz per dollar coin this equals 322,393.87945…pieces. Prior to publication of the June 4,7-8 hearings on the Coinage Act of 1965, members of Congress were told approximately 300,000 pieces were struck. The quantity of 316,076 was first quoted in internal mint and treasury documents on June 15, and provided to Congress during Coinage Act of 1965 hearings. After June, the quantity internally quoted as struck varies from 316,000 to 322,000. The first published coin collector reference to quantity was in Numismatic News on April 24, 1973 where the figure of “300,000” was used. The first known correspondence using the 316,076 mintage was to author Ted Schwarz in a letter written on May 29, 1975.

3. One cannot melt 2.7+ million T oz of blanks and get exactly the same quantity of metal when cast into bars, but mint testimony asserted this.

 

Another minor comment. Articles written before publication of A Guide Book of Peace Dollars by Whitman Publishing, did not have access to internal mint and Treasury documents. These were located by the present writer.

 

[CaptHenway]

So, they don't know how many they struck, but they know that they melted them all because the melted weight came out exactly right.

[RWB]

That was the claim -- clearly a big hole that could have allowed up to several hundred pieces to "vanish." How any might have vanished, if any did, is entirely speculative.

 

The entire episode brings up two points for future consideration:

 

1. Collectors knew that the dollars had been struck and where. Yet, no one interviewed any of the mint managers either in a contemporary or post-employment time frame. Today, people should be interviewing current mint staff whenever a questionable event occurs. (Both while employed and after leaving Treasury employment.)

 

2. The mint's persistent paranoia hurts their credibility, and also confuses future numismatists and those examining government operations. (Things were a little better during Moy’s tenure, but that was the individual not the “corporate culture.”)

 

[CaptHenway]

Indeed. Interviews should have been made regarding the modern spate of mules, and the various dies marked with semi-circular lines including, but not limited to, the Wisconsin quarter varieties.

 

Perhaps such interviews were conducted, but have been kept secret.

 

And the paranoia is a terrible problem. Sometimes it seems like their general policy is to lie first and ask questions later. It may well be that no 1964-D Peace dollars ever did get out, but I cannot bring myself to believe the Mint's side of the issue because of their past history of CYA. If one surfaces that will prove that they exist. If none ever surface that will not prove that they do not exist, because you cannot prove a negative.

 

--

 

For a long, long time the Treasury maintained that no 1933 $20's could ever have been legally issued. Then the research into the Fenton and Langbord cases proved that a window of opportunity existed when a private citizen could have walked up to the Mint and exchanged another $20 in gold for one. Nobody has proven that anybody ever did, but it could have happened, just as somebody obtained a 1933 $10 via exchange.

 

(I have no personal doubt that Switt obtained his coins at a later date.)

 

All I want to do is to establish for posterity the story of how it was reported by a credible witness, Dan Brown, to several people, including myself, that Fern Miller told him that employees had been allowed to buy 1964-D dollars at the Mint but that they were later recalled.

 

This is not intended as a challenge to your excellent book, but merely as a possible alternative. As the 1933 $20 has shown, sometimes things change.

[RWB]

Understood. However, objectively there is not enough information in the letter to establish the writer's statements as being credible - dates, circumstances, communication methods, accounting and counting, and others are missing.

 

I really wish Mr. Brown had written something like this:

 

On

 

REDACTED

 

 

Yours truly,

etc.

 

Yep––this is fantasy, but ....if only.

[i will remove this phony letter within a few hours - I really don't want someone circulating it as the "real thing."]