I need help trying to find the NGC Slabbed Value ..

[wdrob]

I need help trying to find the NGC Slabbed Value of a series of coins.

 

The problem I seem to be having is if the price guide does not have a price but just a - in place of where the price is supposed to be what does that mean.

 

An example is let's say they have values all the way to MS66 and then no more values after that ... just a -

 

What does that mean and I will have some follow up questions I am sure.

 

[cpm9ball]

It means that they have no prior sales history on the coin. Your best bet would be to check completed listings from Heritage, TeleTrade or (God forbid!) FleaBay.

 

Chris

[wdrob]

Ok. I am trying to pinpoint the price on an NGC 1966 SMS 5C MS 67 5FS .... I am only coming up with $1,060.00 but I am not sure if I know what I am doing when looking at these prices.

 

Also I am trying to figure out the price for a NGC 1966 SMS 10c MS 67 FT ..... I came up with a value of $600.00 or so but once again I am not certain I am looking at the right stuff.

 

Any clue where I am messing up.

[wdrob]

Ok I think I am figuring things out a bit more now and why I can't find a NGC price guide for the 1966 SMS 5C MS 67 5FS. They seem to have just graded the first one today.

 

That is the best I can tell anyway. More than likely I would need other more experienced folks to either confirm that or show me where I am messing up.

 

I have not had a great track record the last few days.

 

[cpm9ball]

I just finished checking Numismedia, and I don't see values anywhere close to those you posted. Where did you get the $1060 & $600?

 

Chris

[e1cnr]

You are probably looking up business strikes

SMS usually are worth more CAM or UCAM, yours does not have any designation?

 

 

I am not positive, but I think the 5FS designation is a relatively recent development and not always given since NGC started grading.

 

Teletrade sale of SMS 67

[robec1347]

As far as the nickel the NGC population is 1 in 67 5FS and 2 in 66 5FS. I doubt the population reflects the one graded today, but they may have updated super fast. They have none with 6FS.

 

The dime has a total population of 228 with Full Torch.

 

4 in 65

28 in 66

88 in 67

92 in 68

16 in 69

 

 

No prices are listed for any.

[wdrob]

You are probably looking up business strikes

SMS usually are worth more CAM or UCAM, yours does not have any designation?

 

 

I am not positive, but I think the 5FS designation is a relatively recent development and not always given since NGC started grading.

 

Teletrade sale of SMS 67

 

Yeah that link was not for a FS. I am just tryying to do some researching and the only price I could come up with for the 10C FB 1966 SMS in MS67 was from ATS I think. I could not find nothing but a dash over here I think.

 

[wdrob]

 

I don't show a listing at all for a 5FS 1966 in any grade in the population guide here: http://www.ngccoin.com///poplookup/BaseGrades.aspx?PopSubCatID=25&Designation=MS

 

Where are you looking?

[wdrob]

 

 

From ATS: Ron Guth: The 1966 Nickel is an extreme rarity with Full Steps. PCGS has certified only six examples, the best of which are four in PCGS MS65FS.

 

I didn't think they were that rare. I was working on my birth year and wanted to find some of the best available. So I was researching 1966 SMS

 

[robec1347]

 

[wdrob]

 

 

Hey that Numismedia seems to be something I could really use and was not aware of it. Thanks.

 

But still no FS either 5 or 6 in 1966 SMS it would seem. I guess I will just remain clueless as to what to look for when browsing what is available.

[wdrob]

 

 

That was for Proof..... It is not listed under proof. It is listed specifically as a SMS under the MS section.

 

 

[robec1347]

 

Hey that Numismedia seems to be something I could really use and was not aware of it. Thanks.

 

But still no FS either 5 or 6 in 1966 SMS it would seem. I guess I will just remain clueless as to what to look for when browsing what is available.

There are no 6 FS, but there are three 5 FS.... 1 graded 67 and 2 graded 66.

[wdrob]

 

Ok. I think that Numismedia is helping me figure out what the prices are one should pay. I guess that 600.00 for that dime ATS was one of those flukes. and as far as the 1060.00 on the nickel... Well there is no record of a 5FS MS67 in 1966 so I guess that is why I can find no reference for a price. I guess that is one of those one of a kinds......today anyway.

 

 

[cpm9ball]

 

That was for Proof..... It is not listed under proof. It is listed specifically as a SMS under the MS section.

 

 

I believe NGC lists the SMS with the Proofs even though, technically, it is not a proof, but neither is it a business strike. It's somewhere in between.

 

Chris

[wdrob]

Well what I don't understand then is if they consider it a PF and are going to price it accordingly then why would they not grade the coin ... let's say

 

1965 SMS PF65 5FS

 

Instead they label it as 1965 SMS MS 67 5FS ?

 

Yet I have also seeen them graded as 1965 SMS PF65 with no FS designation. If it is a proof then surely it has at least 5 stairs showing.

 

Why the different grading listings? I personally believe it is because a 65 - 67 SMS is exactly that ... A Mint Set. Mint set would be graded only as MS not PF.

 

There is some really grey areas here for me to digest. And I actually did find those figures of 1060.00 and 600.00 here on NGC. Not ATS. For some reason they will recognize a FS on a 1997 but not on a 65-67? Whats with that.

 

But that is ATS so I will try and focus on NGC since that is where my interest is at.

 

 

[robec1347]

Though these are not proofs they are still specially prepared. The planchets were unpolished but the dies were given a double dose of polishing. This gave the coins the appearance of being prooflike, although they aren't proof.

 

Nor are they considered the normal business strike. That is why they are called Special Mint Set.

 

NGC, I am sure, doesn't consider these Proof, but had to incorporated them somewhere. They chose to put them in the data base with the Proofs.

 

PCGS only recently changed from designating them from MS to SP.

[e1cnr]

Special Mint Sets are different than what they used in normal circulation - they are not what you would find at a bank or in normal use. They were made almost like proof sets and sold that way from the US MINT. Pics below are how you would find SMS from mint.

 

 

They did not make proof coins for the years 1965, 1966, 1967

Special Mint Set coins were made with higher pressure so many have highly reflective fields, more detail, and some have frosted devices like CAM or DCAM/UCAM proofs. Normal coins made for circulation were not as well struck, and in the case of Jefferson nickels were mostly weakly struck, like this.

 

[wdrob]

 

It is sad when the population of a coin is 1 but because of ambiguity there is no set market examples.

 

The coins had no mint mark on them in 65 -67 so I would dare to say that anyone that might have a SMS with some nice full steps and a high grade to remove them from the case. That way they you won't be stuck with a SMS designation on a one population coin. At least it can then join the higher population coins with value.

 

 

[wdrob]

They did not make proof coins for the years 1965, 1966, 1967

 

Absolutely. And that is why I question labeling it as a proof or even forcing it to fall under the PF section. Could they not have made a special section in the MS area for three sets of coins? Especially since they are going to grade them as MS... Crazy stuff.

 

 

Even on Numismedia it is listed under the MS section and not proof.

 

And I am not mistaken I think I was told that a Proof Coin could not be given the FS designation anyway. Maybe I am wrong on that but searching and searching I have yet to find one. Probably searching in the wrong places.

 

 

 

 

[e1cnr]

Why do you need a value? The TPGs job is to authenticate and grade, not to put a price on every coin they see.

 

What is the cert number of your coin?

[wdrob]

I need a reference to know if there would be a market at all for the coin (coins) or if I just screwed up and made a bad decision once again.

 

I don't know why you would need that but since it can't do anything but help here you go.... These are my certs:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My question still stands though and that is why if it is supposed to be considered a proof then it would not be eligible for FS as well as the fact the grade would be PF instead of MS. So that begs the question; just where does it all stand. I mean the only ones that I find ambiguous are the special designation coins inn the series. That is it.

 

 

[wdrob]

Oh. That doesn't have cert's. Do you still need them or not? Is the info in the picture good enough?

 

 

Well it doesn't list the cert #'s over here I guess liike it does ATS. But the status is:

 

Finalized/Imaged/Shipped Coins have been inspected and approved in Quality Control, photographed in our imaging department if applicable and carefully packaged and shipped via your chosen method of delivery. Grades are now available for viewing online, and the package is on its way back to you.

 

 

[rons]

Numismedia does not list a price for any of the full step nickels in my set. I believe the market is too thin for them to make a WAG. ATS does price them but for whatever reason numismedia does not. I do believe you have a winner with your fs nickel tho. Congratulations.

[wdrob]

Thanks and I can only hope you are right but all to many times I have been shown the error of my ways by the folks here and ATS so that is why I am asking about them.

 

I am trying to answer my own questions before posting but the hobby may just be way to confusing for me to be involved with. To many books, prices, grades, opinions, and a learning curve that I may not be willing to endure.

 

I hear there is a knitting class on one of the cable channels. Or maybe I could just paint with those people that do a masterpiece in one thirty minute show. Allot of possibilities I guess for hobbies since I am no longer active in Ham Radio.

 

 

[e1cnr]

I checked the picture of your nickel - it looks like it could be a mechanical error. Also they must have juststarted adding the FT on dimes and FS on nickels. If you go by the registry points on your 'set', the half is probably worth the most.

 

nickel 2600382-004

NGC cert picture of nickel

[cpm9ball]

Oh. That doesn't have cert's. Do you still need them or not? Is the info in the picture good enough?

 

 

Well it doesn't list the cert #'s over here I guess liike it does ATS.

 

Your invoice # is the cert # followed by "-line #" Ex. 12345657-001

 

Chris

[cpm9ball]

I checked the picture of your nickel - it looks like it could be a mechanical error. Also they must have juststarted adding the FT on dimes and FS on nickels. If you go by the registry points on your 'set', the half is probably worth the most.

 

nickel 2600382-004

NGC cert picture of nickel

 

FWIW...........Not long back, I sold a 1967 SMS Kennedy NGC MS68 for $172.

 

Chris

[Deerefan8420]

If my understanding is correct on the SMS sets, these are not proof coins. In 1964, the US Mint decided not to issue proof sets the following year because of a shortage in circulation coins. Although the coins have a Proof-Like appearance, they are not true Proof coins. These SMS coins were struck in the same manner as circulation coinage, only struck once on unpolished planchets and were allowed to come into contact with each other. The brilliance in the fields comes from the Mint employees who overpolished the coinage dies. So, in my opinion, these SMS coins would be considered MS coins and not PF coins. And since they are MS coins, the Full Torch and Full Steps designations would apply.

 

Great job on the coins Bill! Congratulations!