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Bob Green and Rick Kay are Working Privately to Resolve this Dispute

23 posts in this topic

Park Avenue and I are privately working to resolve this matter amicably. We have both made our share of errors in this misunderstanding and have both learned lessons which, in future dealings, will benefit us and any individuals with whom we come into contact.

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It's such a shame that a few hustlers out there sour the hobby. I've had similar experiences but not with such a high-dollar coin. That's why I love doing business with Coast to Coast Coins. They have high quality coins with reasonable prices and no hassle with returned items.

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That's why I love doing business with Coast to Coast Coins.

 

Have you bought anything raw from them and tried to get it slabbed ?? CLEANED

 

I'll buy certified and other "sealed" stuff from them...just got my 2003 Chinese Panda"...but I'll be real hesitant to buy raw from them again.

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Make sure you post and continue to post on PCGS Forum also. Fairly soon he might even beg you to return the coin. The more peolple you tell the more it will start to hit his pocketbook.

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I wonder which service graded the coin? Also if this was a dealer to dealer "site unseen" transaction, then there shouldn't be a return on the coin.IMO

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Thanks EVP, you just vivdly reminded me why my mom no longer lets me cross the street! tongue.gif As far as this issue goes, well, sounds like a bad deal overall, unfortunately there's not a whole lot any of us can do about it.

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BTW, Jeff, Park Ave was able to post an email chain that supports their version of the events.

 

It seems like the few dealers who responded are understanding of Park Ave's stance, while the collectors generally are angry with Park Ave. I tried to remind the collectors that this is really a dealer-to-dealer matter, but the peanut gallery just had to voice their God-given opinions!

 

EVP

 

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I tried to remind the collectors that this is really a dealer-to-dealer matter, but the peanut gallery just had to voice their God-given opinions!

 

True, but the nice thing is that for anyone wishing to be a part- or full-time dealer, it is a reminder that there are MANY things that need to be taken into consideration and that the jump from the minors to the majors has a lot of changes.

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EVP:

 

This is real pickle, and I too, pitched in my God given two cents.

 

On one hand, I understand teh dealers position. If every coin was "on approval" so to speak, the post office would have half you inventory on any given day.

 

On the other hand, having not seen the coin, I don't see how anyone can expect someone to blindly accept for that kind of money with no return policy.

 

WHile I understand the drawbacks, I can't accept a system that say buy something sight unseen for over $20K and BTW, no returns.

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WHile I understand the drawbacks, I can't accept a system that say buy something sight unseen for over $20K and BTW, no returns.

 

Why not, the e-mail chain specifically shows that PAN had the coin to a dealer who was considering it (for purchase or resale to a client), and that the only way to get the coin from that dealer was to have a firm offer to purchase.

 

 

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PAN's email didn't say anything about "the only way to get it back is for you to make a firm, no returns purchase".

 

According to two major nationally-known coin dealers at Pinnacle and Legend, the term Done Deal means exactly that in "coin lingo." PAN's e-mail said Done Deal, and if Mr. Kay wasn't sure what that meant, he should have inquired.

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Probably should have said done deal assuming I like the coin because shouldn't it be about the coin. I am not a dealer but to me done deal is just another phrase like "the checks in the mail"

 

 

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loose at best, it'll never hold up in court.

 

As I stated across the street, RK should be filing suit immediately and throwing in an ANA complaint to boot. The $1000.00 PAN made on the coin is not worth having to fight it. PAN has already lost who knows how many times that $1000 in business doe to other collectors thinking twice about buying from him because of this incident.

 

PAN's trade journal ads clearly state a return policy.

 

I would liken this to your car mechanic telling you he will fix your car for $500.00 "abra cadabra" (car mechanic speak for "if it's worse than it looks it'll be a thousand and I'll keep you car until you pay"). When you go to pick up your car and can't get it until you pay $1000 and challenge the guy with his estimate, he replies - but I told him "abra cadabra"!

 

The buyer had no way of knowing the intent behind the use of the phrase "done deal".

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As I stated across the street, RK should be filing suit immediately and throwing in an ANA complaint to boot.

 

Chain of e-mail does not mention a return policy, so RK has to prove it is implied. Otherwise the court relies on industry practice, and he's screwed because coin dealers understand the term to mean a fully-completed transaction.

 

The buyer had no way of knowing the intent behind the use of the phrase "done deal".

 

Apparantly he represented himself as a dealer, and did not say anything in his e-mail to dispel that notion.

 

I liken the situation to a guy at a coin show who sees a dealer looking at a piece and getting ready to buy it from another dealer. The guy approaches the owner while the prospective buyer is looking and says, Hey, I want that coin. Owner says OK, it's yours and gives the coin out. The next day, the buyer looks at the coin, says , and goes back to the owner's table asking him to take it back.

 

 

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The generally accepted rules of commerce imply that a return priviledge of some sort exists unless a No Return Clause is stated, as I believe was not the case in this matter. I do not think that Park Avenue's no return stance in this matter would stand up either in abitration or with a jury, unless they could prove that this dealer undestood their policy or had previous purchases with Park Avenue.

 

I do not think that any smart business person would enter into a $30,000 contract or transaction for any merchandize without some quarantee or contract. The coin business is too loosey-goosey in that it is the only business (except Stock Trading-through a Broker) where this size of transaction is done verbally, with no recourse to the buyer.

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Breaking News:

 

Peace breaks out across the street. Bob Green and Rick Kay appear to have made up. Good thing, 'cuz Jimmy Carter is still busy working on the Venezuela issue...

 

EVP

 

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WOW! That's great to hear! I thought I might have to cancel my trip to Wal-Mart tomorrow since I was so worried. It's great to see that posting your gripes on a message board still gets you enough leverage to work things out in the end. shocked.gif

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Ah the Old Dealer to Dealer Thread is here also. Notice I said Dealer to Dealer plus a negotaited deal at that. Heck will a collector get a return on a deal he negotiates ? Think NOT !! The buyer will get off very easy on his blatant mistake. Lesson learned with very small monatary loss.

 

The other item that was disturbing across the street was some members bashing some well known Dealers and Collectors. Some members need to figure out how to keep thier mouth shut if nothing good can be said. As Always JMHO.

 

Ken

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Was Sight Unseen "Done Deal" transaction. Appears other party was not aware that B. Green's "Done Deal" meant non-returnable. Apparently Green went and purchased coin from his client upon acceptance from RKKAY. Green says he paid $22,000 to his client and sold to RK for $23,000.

 

Personally, I feel that Sight Unseen transactions should always include a very limited return period. A "restocking" fee would likely protect seller in a situation of this type. MHO is based solely from a collector's point of view. Both parties need to own a portion of downside of this transaction. Was quite a learning experience on Dealer to Dealer transactions.

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RK I agree with you 110%!! Gave a lot of us a look into the "world" of Dealer to Dealer tranactons. Expensive lesson, but a real education a collector's Gad to see tha tyour

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re Paigow Johnny,

 

All that I have bought from Coast to Coast Coins have been raw. I've bought quite a few uncirculated Walking Liberty Halves. They had not been cleaned and all had brilliant lustre and were all white. Nice coins. I did buy an unslabbed 1883 unc. shield nickle with a fairly large die break on the obverse. O/w I've always been satisfied with my purchases.

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