Morgan 1883 CC

[wdrob]

I never had any opinions on this coin before because the only pictures I had were taken with a plastic cover on to prevent flash reflection. That made it look kind of funny.

 

Well with these newer pictures (in a plastic coin cover mind you) there is much greater detail available and the PL (I believe) can be seen better.

 

I have this coin being graded right now and should find out the grade next week. Any guesses on the grade and if PL is possible?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry if that was to many pictures. Anyway I am curious as to what you folks think prior to receiving the grade next week.

 

 

[BLive1972]

Have you tested the reflection close up? I think the rule of thumb is that you should be able to see print clearly at 4 in for it to be PL. DMPL I think is 6-8. Tough to tell with your pics. I can see your reflections, but I get the same from a couple of my semi PLs with flashy fields. Good luck to you. Hope you get what you wish.

[wdrob]

Yeah too late to try that test. I am not exactly sure what the 4 and 6-8 mean unless it is inches or something.

 

Did you have a grade in mind though or don't want to go there?

 

I wish for a 67 or 68 and based on the criteria I think it would meet that but I know that isn't going to happen.

 

Virtually as struck with very slight imperfections, the strike must be virtually full. Eye appeal must be very good.

[BLive1972]

I meant inches, sorry.

 

Well, I'm not the best with pictures, but I see some decent wear in the hair above the ear and some dings in the 4th pic. They may just be bag marks, but it doesn't look too smooth. I want to say 64 maybe 65 no PL designation. The rev seems to be a little flashier.

 

I'd let some of the others chime in on this as I could be off a little

[wdrob]

Yeah I wish I had taken some reflection pictures before I sent it off and it was out of that cardboard holder with that sheet of plastic over top of it.

 

I would be fine with a 65 but a 66 would be better.

 

 

[BLive1972]

I hope that you get what you want. Make sure you post it once it comes back.

[wdrob]

I sure will. The grade should be in during this coming work week. It is entered into the system and showing up. It only took them 3 days on the other express (59 1C Memorial) to grade and post.

 

I was browsing Bill Jones's type sets and that will almost make one lose all hope and confidence in the grading system. It seems as though they rarely actually follow the published (on both sides of the street) grading standards declaration. I would have been very upset with some of those grades Bill received on some of those coins.

 

It would be interesting to know if he was in agreement with all those grades or did he think, like I , that they typically low balled him. He has some really nice examples and they just assigned a 62 - 64 on those when I easily thought by comparison to the Photgrade Online, essentially the ANA Grading Standards Handbook online, should have hit the 65 or higher. Very discouraging.

 

btw; I did purchase a copy of the Whitman Harris ANA Grading Guide, 6th ed (Spiral Bound) so I will be able to gain greater knowledge on just what they are supposed to be looking at when grading and, more importantly, what I need to be looking at when entertaining a purchase.

 

 

[A.Phillips]

It looks really nice raw coin. It may will graded with star "*" designation, not PL?

[wdrob]

 

'*' would be nice too.

[mtnstyne]

I was browsing Bill Jones's type sets and that will almost make one lose all hope and confidence in the grading system. It seems as though they rarely actually follow the published (on both sides of the street) grading standards declaration. I would have been very upset with some of those grades Bill received on some of those coins.

 

It would be interesting to know if he was in agreement with all those grades or did he think, like I , that they typically low balled him. He has some really nice examples and they just assigned a 62 - 64 on those when I easily thought by comparison to the Photgrade Online, essentially the ANA Grading Standards Handbook online, should have hit the 65 or higher. Very discouraging.

 

Would you be surprised if he purchased most of those already slabbed at those grades? Might just be a case of Bill having a great eye and picking up undergraded examples for his set.

[wdrob]

 

Would you be surprised if he purchased most of those already slabbed at those grades? Might just be a case of Bill having a great eye and picking up undergraded examples for his set.

 

Well that may be the reasons but I don't understand the logic. I actually find it convoluted.

 

If one is advised to buy only slabbed coins (relative and loosely used statement not intended to entirely exclude select raw coins by experienced dealers/collectors) and if a person buys a slabbed coin at MS63 because they have a good eye and think that coin should actually be graded at a MS65 then what is the use of buying it in the slab? You are doing just as always advised; 'Buy the coin not the plastic'. Why not just find the coins without graded slab and more than likely cheaper.

 

Now if this person was to buy under that situation why would they not send it in for a re-grade and get the grade they feel it is actually closer to? Instead the coin is bought in a MS62 slab, never sent in for regrade, and essentially only serves the purpose of certification for a Registry Count.

 

There are a few around here I believe that do not have their coins graded and slabbed yet they are very active collectors and possibly dealers to some extent. I am starting to think maybe that is the better solution unless you are intending on getting heavily involved in a Registry.

 

 

 

 

[A.Phillips]

 

Well that may be the reasons but I don't understand the logic. I actually find it convoluted.

 

If one is advised to buy only slabbed coins (relative and loosely used statement not intended to entirely exclude select raw coins by experienced dealers/collectors) and if a person buys a slabbed coin at MS63 because they have a good eye and think that coin should actually be graded at a MS65 then what is the use of buying it in the slab? You are doing just as always advised; 'Buy the coin not the plastic'. Why not just find the coins without graded slab and more than likely cheaper.

 

Now if this person was to buy under that situation why would they not send it in for a re-grade and get the grade they feel it is actually closer to? Instead the coin is bought in a MS62 slab, never sent in for regrade, and essentially only serves the purpose of certification for a Registry Count.

 

There are a few around here I believe that do not have their coins graded and slabbed yet they are very active collectors and possibly dealers to some extent. I am starting to think maybe that is the better solution unless you are intending on getting heavily involved in a Registry.

 

 

 

 

I totally agree that it is cheaper to buy the raw coins than the graded slab. Since I am still a rookie and learning since I was 15 (now 28), and for right now, I tend to buy a graded slab because most of my raw coins were CLEANED which I couldn't tell if it's cleaned or not at all. After I brought my Morgans to coin shows, a grader told me that 22 of my raw Morgans have been cleaned. I realized that I have waste thousands dollars on all of it. So when I see the graded slab shows "Cleaned" or "Improper cleaned" on label, I stepped back. I like the coins that are as it is.

 

I don't know if it's true about NGC has a "smell machine" to identity if a coin has been cleaned or not, but it could be helpful if I have that. I don't even how to identity a coin that has been cleaned or not with my naked eyes. On other forums, I could see the cooper or bronze coins has been cleaned, but it seems harder for me to notice the polish on silver coins.

 

 

- Please excuse my grammar..

[mtnstyne]

Would you be surprised if he purchased most of those already slabbed at those grades? Might just be a case of Bill having a great eye and picking up undergraded examples for his set.

 

Well that may be the reasons but I don't understand the logic. I actually find it convoluted.

 

I can think of many reasons.

 

An MS65 coin in a MS64 slab is cheaper when buying from a slab collector instead of a coin collector.

 

Not everyone is concerned with the registry for points but more so about putting together a nice collection to be proud of.

 

I bet if you have any questions about specific coins Bill might be willing to share his experience with them. I have found him to be very knowledgeable and willing to share.

 

I am just offering some counter thoughts. The majority of my coins are raw, and will probably never be submitted for grading. If I am going to do the registry game I will let someone else pay the expense of slabbing.

[wdrob]

I can think of many reasons.

 

An MS65 coin in a MS64 slab is cheaper when buying from a slab collector instead of a coin collector.

 

Exactly. You just reinforced my point. The only way that would change is if the person resubmitted it for a possible upgrade. Regardless of whether he bought what is really a 65 in a 64 slab. It still remains a 65 in a 64 slab. And that is what the next guy buying it is going to think; opportunity to get a 65 coin at a 64 slab price. Nothing has changed.

 

Not everyone is concerned with the registry for points but more so about putting together a nice collection to be proud of.

 

Absolutely. Folks like you, I, and others are very proud of our collections even though they are not all in a slab. And if you were to go to a coin show and see a coin that you would like for your collection you would probably be inclined to buy that coin in or out of a slab simply because you like it and will derive enjoyment from ownership.

 

I bet if you have any questions about specific coins Bill might be willing to share his experience with them. I have found him to be very knowledgeable and willing to share.

 

Yes he seems to be a wealth of knowledge and experience as are several others on here and they have all seemed to be very patient with my lack of understanding and naivety with the hobby. I appreciate that for sure and hope I do nothing to cause that to end.

 

 

[A.Phillips]

An MS65 coin in a MS64 slab is cheaper when buying from a slab collector instead of a coin collector.

 

Agreed

[wdrob]

I hope that you get what you want. Make sure you post it once it comes back.

 

Well I am extremely disappointed. They only gave that 1883 CC that was near PL with good mirrors an MS 63 .... That's it .. nothing more.

 

I am reading the ANA Grading Standards and that thing could have qualified for a MS 64 based upon the Prime Focal Areas and the Secondary Areas.

 

MS 63 .... Well that is it on coin collecting for me. I will let these others come back but I expect nothing different than disappointment so I think am just going to sell every Single Coin, all slabbed coin's, ASE's (both slabbed and encapsulated), and all my government packaged commemoration for really cheap.

 

https://plus.google.com/photos/107521821881682237278/albums/5860550334000049265

 

Or maybe just take my boat out to the 155 ft lake level and dump all this useless scrap in the deep depths.

 

I am not good at handling disappointment.

 

 

 

 

[BLive1972]

Ok, move on. I've made mistakes, and I'm sure lots of other folks here have as well...and a lot more $$ mistakes. I just hang out and learn. I don't have many, but I love what I have. Be picky, and patient.

[jpcienkus]

When you're ready to sell, you can list them here, but make sure you follow the guidelines. You'll probably get rid of most of them.

[Deerefan8420]

Don't let this experience discourage you from collecting! Use it as a learning experience. All new collectors are going to make mistakes. Trust me, it's going to happen! I've made a couple of costly mistakes myself already but I have not let it discourage me. You're not going to get it right straight out of the gate. It takes a good bit of time to become familiar with grading standards. And the ANA guide is just that, a guide. Each and every coin on the market can look completely different in the hands of another collector or grading service. I've been collecting for just a few years now and I've become a little more comfortable in buying raw coins. Before then, I only purchased coins in slabs. The guys here on the forum have a tremendous wealth of knowledge that I'm sure they would all be glad to share that knowledge when a problem or situation arises. Just don't give up after one bad experience! And if you're not happy with MS63 and want to sell, let me know. I need an 83-CC for my MS collection and would happy to purchase it from you!

[wdrob]

 

 

If you need the 83 CC just PM me your address in about a week I should have it off in the mail to you. That coin has me so bitter that I don't even want it in my house. Consider it a early Christmas gift.

 

 

[wdrob]

 

Actually you don't even have to send your address. I put a bid in on a 46 walker to help you get things rolling on that one. There should be two bids and that is me.

 

[wdrob]

Maybe we will just trade outright. Hows that?

 

[wdrob]

45 Walker I mean.

[wdrob]

 

By the way I took my medications and am not nearly as bent out of shape as before but I want you to have that 1883 CC since you need it. I don't really need it at all.

 

*** To all those that suffered through my semi breakdown I apologize and I will try to medicate well before I touch the keyboard in the future when aggravated in what I feel is a bad grade. I should understand that every single person on this forum has, at least one time or another, been sorely disappointed with a grade that they received for a coin like someone had previously mentioned "We all think our coins are worth more than what they are". ***

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Wow, bit of an overreaction I think. There is literally no price difference between a 63 and 64 for this coin. Even getting the PL would make very little to no difference.

[wdrob]

Well it's sort of like me going up to your new car and saying "Dang! That looks like fido's butt".

 

My anger stemmed more from the realization that coin collecting is not for me it would seem. I can't take the inconsistency. Mercury Dimes FB when not FB simply because of the known price difference. 65's and 66's getting 67 and above, and, imo and others, a 65 possible PL or * getting a 63.

 

I guess it is all just part of the plan to ensure job security.

 

Anyway read my profile and you might understand a little more about me and the troubles I have.

 

btw; I just noticed that link to that informative article you had written. I skimmed it but will read it in depth later.

 

 

[MarkFeld]

Well it's sort of like me going up to your new car and saying "Dang! That looks like fido's butt".

 

My anger stemmed more from the realization that coin collecting is not for me it would seem. I can't take the inconsistency. Mercury Dimes FB when not FB simply because of the known price difference. 65's and 66's getting 67 and above, and, imo and others, a 65 possible PL or * getting a 63.

 

I guess it is all just part of the plan to ensure job security.

 

Anyway read my profile and you might understand a little more about me and the troubles I have.

 

btw; I just noticed that link to that informative article you had written. I skimmed it but will read it in depth later.

 

 

It is true that grading is somewhat subjective and inconsistent. However, that does not mean your coin deserved a 64 or 65 and/or a PL designation, but only graded MS63. It's quite possible that the coin received a/the very grade it should have, but that your expectations were unrealistic.

[wdrob]

 

Yes Mark you are right in that being an alternative explanation. One that is far more sound and rational than the stuff I come up with.

 

I will try to be more rational with any future contributions.