Lipstick on a pig (or, the art of buying)

[EVillageProwler]

I want to share with the viewership my sole newp from the just concluded Whitman Baltimore show, and for the newbies among us a little story about the art of buying when you're not sure what you are doing.

 

The coin in question is a 1674 Scudo from the Italian city of Genoa. Dav-3901, and graded MS63 by a reputable TPG. According to Krause, the coin lists at $700 in EF, but is unpriced in UNC. So, how much is it worth? I ask to look at the coin (go ahead now and take a look at the coin -- the images are from my iPhone, so please be charitable!), and I see that the reverse is quite nice. It is quite lustrous and not with too many (as made) defects. I say it is no question choice. The obverse, however, is tougher to love. Despite my image, the obverse has the same color as the reverse -- very lightly toned with a pale gray dusting.

 

But, the obverse has more defects, and is less flashy. I look carefully at the coin, and see that it does seem to be UNC to me; the obverse does actually have quite a bit of sheen throughout the badly produced planchet. Nevertheless, it certainly does not look "choice" to me as the assessed grade suggests.

 

I sit down with the dealer, with whom I've never previously done business (or even knew of his existence), and we discuss this coin. I ask him directly if he thinks this is a choice coin. He answers 'no'. So far, so good. He also says that a "choice" specimen will probably cost $5000 or more. (That seems about right to me.) He had it priced closer to the un-choice level. I still wavered on the transaction, because it's hard to love a pig, no matter how much lipstick you put on it. I asked him if he has room, and he said that he doesn't want to accept lower than $Xyyy, and that he paid $Xxxx for it. So, I decide to offer him $Xxxx * 1.15, which turned out to be a small amount less than his initial number. I apologized for unintentionally chiseling, and he responded graciously because he knew that I just made a mistake with my mental calculation.

 

After he accepted my offer of $Xxxx * 1.15, I asked him if he wants dealer references since I planned to write a personal check. A nearby dealer whom we both know vouched for me. As I was writing the check, he stopped me and asked me if I want to take the coin to another dealer for a second dealer. I accepted, showed the coin to a 3rd dealer whom I trust (the seller did not accompany me). This 3rd dealer whom I trust looked at the coin and remarked that the coin is in very high grade, and in fact he'd never seen this in such high grade before. That bodes well. My dealer friend asked me if I had looked up the pricing in Coin Archives yet; I hadn't, but it didn't matter since I had already negotiated the price in good faith. (I did search HA.com archives, and came up without relevant data other than the coin is quite scarce.)

 

I thanked my dealer friend and went back to conclude the transaction.

 

A few points for those of us who are not veterans in the art of buying (I'm not claiming to be good at it, btw!)...

 

First, I asked the dealer if he had room on the price, but not what is his "best price". "Best price" is industry code for bottom-line-take-it-or-leave-it price, with no further haggling after you hear the price. Violating this is a liable to get you a bad reputation amongst the dealers, and will make it very hard for you to get decent coins at decent prices from that dealer and his clique.

 

Second, shoot for a price that both of you can live with. The dealer has his expenses, and don't think you need to go for the hard approach. If you really want the coin, just be fair. If you think the dealer is quoting a bad price, then walk away. If he honestly trying to work with you, then you should do the same. Your reputation as a buyer also matters.

 

Third, be respectful. If you need to ask him tough questions, don't be a punk about it. That should set the tone for everything that follows.

 

Fourth, invest in relationships with dealers who are knowledgeable, honest, fair and respectful.

 

After all this, I hope I got the coin for a fair price.

 

 

[coinsarefun]

Nice coin, great story..........key learning point:

 

 

"Invest in relationships with dealers who are knowledgeable, honest, fair and respectful"

 

 

 

Quote of the week

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[coinsarefun]

Oops, dbl post.....dang iPad

 

 

 

[JKK]

Lot of truth in this. In US society, at least, there's a lot of on and on about what the vendor should do, what is good customer service, how the customer is supposedly always right, and all this other stuff. Being a good customer is also a fine art, and one too many people don't work at. I think in coins, reputation counts for a ton, and one does not want to be marked lousy either as client or vendor.

 

For me, what it means is that while I don't always buy something at my local dealer, I always do if I come in and pump them for knowledge. Something, anything. They do me the rather pleasing honor of turning their backs on me while I look at exposed merchandise; we all realize the place has cams, but that's not the point. The point is that it's their way of conveying that they value and trust me as a longtime customer, which ought to earn my respect and kindness in reciprocity. So, if they are slammed, I try to let them help other people before me; it's a coin store, I'm hardly in a hurry most times. I mean, it's full of cool coins. I think I can handle being stuck ogling them for a time.

 

One time I ended up helping a couple of nice numismatic novice ladies with some foreign coins out of a binder I was shopping through; sure, it delayed my own shopping, but hey, who doesn't enjoy introducing new people to the hobby, and it was a chance to get the dealer some sales, which I'd like to see them get. I know my dealer's prices and grading are fair and conservative, and what I might save by negotiating, I might lose long term, because they know that if I know anything at all about coins, I know that their offers are fair. As it is, preparing to move to a new town (where everyone in the coin business knows my existing dealer), I know I'll have a quality numismatic reference to cite, after years of good business dealings. This goes well past numismatics and extends into general business habits, but I think in our hobby it's extra important.

[brg5658]

EVP, a lovely new coin, and thanks for taking the time to write out this story. It is a good lesson, as are many of your insights on these boards. I really appreciate them.

 

Kind regards,

-Brandon

[johnny9434]

Nice coin, great story..........key learning point:

 

 

"Invest in relationships with dealers who are knowledgeable, honest, fair and respectful"

 

 

 

Quote of the week

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yes, that does work wonders

[physics-fan3.14]

Great story - with great lessons that I think we should all learn.

 

Also, looks like a nice coin. I really don't know anything about it, but I'm glad you are happy with it!

[gmarguli]

First, I asked the dealer if he had room on the price, but not what is his "best price". "Best price" is industry code for bottom-line-take-it-or-leave-it price, with no further haggling after you hear the price. Violating this is a liable to get you a bad reputation amongst the dealers, and will make it very hard for you to get decent coins at decent prices from that dealer and his clique.

 

This is something that so many buyers - especially Chinese and Russian - fail to understand. Not picking on them, but so often they ask for a best price and then counter with an offer insultingly lower than the best price.

 

At CICF/Chicago last year I'm sitting at a table and a collector asked a dealer for his best price. Dealer quoted $800. Collector says "will you take $250". Dealer yells at him to get the out of here. No way that collector gets a good quote from any of the surrounding dealers who heard what went on.

[EVillageProwler]

Thanks for the comments, folks.

 

Having had my share of dealing with the retail public, I must say that seldom is it an enjoyable experience. Most folks are ok - a neutral experience. Often enough, however, you get someone that frustrate due to ignorance, cultural difference or is simply a jerk.

 

That being said, there is also the occasional dealer who is disrespectful. And that is why I encourage folks to invest in the relationships with the good dealers.

 

Btw, in my OP, I edited my story so it would present better. The truth is, I also consulted gmarguli about this coin when I first saw it. It helps to have a dealer on speed dial.

 

EVP