1719 German (Munster) 1.5 Taler With Charlemagne

[gmarguli]

With the next Long Beach rolling around, I figured it about time I showed off what I purchased at the last Long Beach show.

 

It is a 1719 German - Munster state - 1.5 Taler (Medallic Coinage). A rather seldom seem denomination. There are 19 shields on each side and Charlemagne in the middle. The coin is well struck and still retains much of the original mint luster. It is (undergraded) AU55 by NGC. The coin is too big to fit in a slab, so NGC just returned it in the flip with an insert.

[GDJMSP]

Another nice one

 

Anyone care to take a stab at indentifying all the crests on the shields ?

[JamminJ]

Anyone care to take a stab at indentifying all the crests on the shields ?

 

I'll start!

 

On the right side photo, top shield to the right the first one is that of Wolff-Metternich. Wolf-Metternich was the name of a family of free barons of the Empire. They were raised to the rank of Counts in the 19th century.

 

The head of the family when the coin was issued was Franz Arnolf, bishop of Meunster from 1706-1718. He was also Bishop of Paderborn from 1704-1718.

 

-JamminJ

[JamminJ]

I'll take the one on the left photo between 9:00 and 10:00. I think its from the Lordship of Breuberg or the in name of Isenburg, but not entirely sure.

 

On coin heraldry the color red is usually indicated by vertical lines and white or silver by the absence of detail. My book says two red fesses (horizontal bars) superimposed on a silver background is Breuberg or Isenburg.

 

Isenburg was the family name of a clan with posessions in the old Duchy of Franconia beginning in the 10th centruy. The family split many ways through the years and the descendants appeared here and there as minor princes until 1806 when they had to relinquich their titles.

 

Breuberg was another family of minor princes lasting from the 13th century until the 16th.

 

My guess is that the arms are those of Isenberg just because they were still around when the coin was struck and seem somewhat more prominant.

 

-JamminJ

[TJ]

I'll take the one on the left photo between 9:00 and 10:00. I think its from the Lordship of Breuberg or the in name of Isenburg, but not entirely sure.

 

On coin heraldry the color red is usually indicated by vertical lines and white or silver by the absence of detail. My book says two red fesses (horizontal bars) superimposed on a silver background is Breuberg or Isenburg.

 

Isenburg was the family name of a clan with posessions in the old Duchy of Franconia beginning in the 10th centruy. The family split many ways through the years and the descendants appeared here and there as minor princes until 1806 when they had to relinquich their titles.

 

Breuberg was another family of minor princes lasting from the 13th century until the 16th.

 

My guess is that the arms are those of Isenberg just because they were still around when the coin was struck and seem somewhat more prominant.

 

-JamminJ

Jeez Jammin, you a friggin walking encyclopedia or sumpin?

[GDJMSP]

This is kinda why I asked that question

 

Might be wrong here - but there is one there that looks mighty familiar. The one at 7 o'clock on the left pic - looks like 3 scallops on the shield. Now I'm gonna have to do some more research 'Cause according to my family history - that's the Prather family crest

[JamminJ]

Jeez Jammin, you a friggin walking encyclopedia or sumpin?

 

Nope. I just own a copy of Germanic Coinages - Charlemagne through Wilhelm II which is great with heraldry and sorting out the ever changing list of German states. I find it fun to hunt stuff like this down.

 

The book is highly recommended - pick one up if you get the chance!

 

-JamminJ

[TJ]

The book is highly recommended - pick one up if you get the chance!

 

-JamminJ

Thanks! I'll put that on my to-do list, right after "Send George W campaign donation"

[JamminJ]

Thanks! I'll put that on my to-do list, right after "Send George W campaign donation"

 

Good Thinking, that's exactly how I did it!

 

I got my campaign conttribution in earlier this year, and picked up th ebook at the ANA seminar in June. First things first!

 

-JamminJ

[JamminJ]

Anyone care to take a stab at indentifying all the crests on the shields ?

 

Here's another one, left side photo about 4:30. Simple device with a shield divided vertically.

 

Left side blank = white or silver

Right side lined horizontally = blue

 

Those are the arms of Metz, a bishopric in Lorraine established in the 4th century. The bishops obttained broad temporal powers with the decay of central authority of the Carolingian in the 9th centrury. By the time Greg's coin was struck the bishops had resigned all their rights to France.

 

-JamminJ