1884-S Morgan Grading Help!

[Deerefan8420]

I was browsing through a large "bullion" lot of Morgans and scooped up this 1884-S for fairly cheap. My main concerns about the coin are its authenticity and its grade. Comparing it to my other graded Morgans in MS condition, this coin seems to be legit. My concern with the authenticity is that Eagle's breast shows some wear while there are no other signs of wear on the coin. The weight for the coin is correct, it weighs in at 26.71 grams. It has great luster and from what I can tell it has not been cleaned or it does not show any of the normal signs of a coin that has been cleaned. My other concern is whether or not it will make it to MS-60.

 

I do not have the greatest coin imaging equipment but the pictures I do have show the details very well, just not the luster. If anyone has any tips or advice on how to achieve both in a single picture, please feel free to share. I am always looking for advice and I am open to any and all suggestions! Thanks for your help.

 

Justin

 

[coinman_23885]

I was browsing through a large "bullion" lot of Morgans and scooped up this 1884-S for fairly cheap. My main concerns about the coin are its authenticity and its grade. Comparing it to my other graded Morgans in MS condition, this coin seems to be legit. My concern with the authenticity is that Eagle's breast shows some wear while there are no other signs of wear on the coin. The weight for the coin is correct, it weighs in at 26.71 grams. It has great luster and from what I can tell it has not been cleaned or it does not show any of the normal signs of a coin that has been cleaned. My other concern is whether or not it will make it to MS-60.

 

I do not have the greatest coin imaging equipment but the pictures I do have show the details very well, just not the luster. If anyone has any tips or advice on how to achieve both in a single picture, please feel free to share. I am always looking for advice and I am open to any and all suggestions! Thanks for your help.

 

Justin

 

If a coin has wear from circulation, then it cannot grade MS60 or higher. As you acknowledge, the coin has wear, especially on the eagle's breast on the reverse; thus, the coin will not grade higher than about uncirculated. The coin also looks unnatural. I would call it AU details cleaned and/or polished.

[coinman_23885]

Also, what would you describe as "normal signs of cleaning"? There appears to be little if any original mint luster and the coin appears unnaturally "shiny"

for lack of a better term.

[Deerefan8420]

That's kind of what I was thinking! The coin looks much better in hand than in the pictures. I asked about the wear on the breast because I do have a couple of Morgans that are graded 61 and 62 that both show some wear on the breast.(I will not be sending them in for a regrade!). I have a Morgan that's graded MS64 by NGC that has more contact marks than this coin! I mentioned the "normal signs of cleaning" as reference to coins that have been cleaned that show surface marks/swirl patterns and scratches from cleanings. I have a couple of cleaned coins and this coin shows no sign of cleaning compared to the coins that have been cleaned. If there is a better way of taking a picture that shows the luster of the coin, I'm all ears! Thank you for your reply!

[Coindude]

Agreed with Coinman, low AU, but harshly polished. I've seen worse, but those are the ones that sell for spot.

[Deerefan8420]

Good thing I didn't spend too much money for this coin. I picked it up for $35 since I bought several coins at one time. I guess it'll be good just for what I bought the rest for, bullion!

[$ilverHawk]

This coin has been whizzed and polished. Note the softening of the hits in front of Liberties eyes. Note the change in coloration of the fields in the same area. An 1884-S in high AU or MS is a valuable coin, therefore many "coin doctors" will attempt to alter these coins to sell to uninformed buyers. I'm happy that you bought at a bullion price because this coin is bullion and nothing more.

 

Carl

[Deerefan8420]

Thanks for the info Carl! I do notice the change now that you mentioned it. I guess I should stick to buying the coins already in the slabs! I may send this coin in with my next submission to see what they have to say about it and just opt out of the details grading. It would be worth it, to me anyhow, to know exactly what the flaws are so I can use it to compare to other coins.

[mtnstyne]

Polished AU, don't mistake weak strike for wear on some of your other graded examples. Each mint mark/year has different norms.

 

Also, hits on an MS coin only reduce the grade of the MS coin so on an MS61 coin there is going to be a lot of contact marks. You can nave a nice slider (AU58) with less contact marks than a low end uncirculated coin but because it has signs of wear/circulation it won't be graded higher tha AU. Think of taking a nice MS65 coin with virtually no contact marks and carrying it in your pocket for a day...probably still have nice clean MS surfaces but would show signs of wear.

[coinman_23885]

That's kind of what I was thinking! The coin looks much better in hand than in the pictures. I asked about the wear on the breast because I do have a couple of Morgans that are graded 61 and 62 that both show some wear on the breast.(I will not be sending them in for a regrade!).

 

I'm not going to say that it doesn't happen (i.e. that grading services don't make errors), but I think it is more likely that you are confusing a weak strike with wear.

[Deerefan8420]

I am still an amateur when it cmes to grading. I have a lot to learn but with all the excellent advice you gus are giving me, hopefully I'll be able to have a better idea about grading and being able to see the slight differences in raw coins. I have always bought graded coins because I have always been unsure of my abilities as far as grading goes. I'd rather pay a small premium for a graded coin than pay a large premium for a raw coin only to find out that I've made a terrible mistake!

 

Coinman, I have another post in the grading forum of two coins that I got today. If you could, take a look and share with me your thoughts and knowledge!

 

Thanks guys!

[Deerefan8420]

Coinman, although this coin seems to have been cleaned and/or polished, would it be worth the money to have the coin certified with a Details grading or should I just keep it as a raw coin for storage in the bullion stack?

[Mark T]

It is not worth the cost of certification. Market value on this in an Au 50 details holder is around $100.

[Deerefan8420]

Thanks Mark! I appreciate the input.

[coinman_23885]

It is not worth the cost of certification. Market value on this in an Au 50 details holder is around $100.

 

+1

[JOBESSI]

I think you'd be able to sell for a decent profit as a filler coin. AU 53 details is my guess.

[BillJones]

The 1884-S dollar is one of those Morgan Dollar dates that is common in the circulated grades and scarce in the true Mint State. This coin is a typical AU that might be worse off from some light polishing. Save you money. Don't send this in to be graded.

[Deerefan8420]

Here's a better picture of the 1884-S. Just wanted to see if the consensus was the same. Thanks for all your help guys!