What's the market pulse on $5 Indians?

[JIM F.]

As a series. Hot, Cold, Neutral?

 

 

[comicdonna]

[Nutmeg Coin]

Nice ones are pretty strong; definitely warmer than the $2 1/2 Indians....Better dates are even more in demand.

[JIM F.]

Nice ones are pretty strong; definitely warmer than the $2 1/2 Indians....Better dates are even more in demand.

Which ones would you consider better dates?

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

Most all of the "S" mints are much rarer, but good look finding them....

[BillJones]

The type coin market has been coming down. At one point the MS-64 graded coins were bid at over $3,000. Now they are bid at less than $2,500 on the Gray Sheet. Strict Mint State examples of this type have always been tough. When I was a young collector I could find one that suited me back in the 1960s. The other coins in the eight piece type gold set where easy to find in Choice Mint State.

[jom]

Nice ones are pretty strong; definitely warmer than the $2 1/2 Indians....Better dates are even more in demand.

Which ones would you consider better dates?

 

The problem with the $5 Indians are mostly quality issues. Sure, you can find MS pieces but most of them are crummy. You really have to go up in the MS category to find decent examples. But at that point it gets really expensive. For example, finding pieces with luster in the fields on the obverse is next impossible with the better dates. For example, on the 09-O I've only seen ONE piece in 20 years and that was priced above $300K. For all practical purposes you have to except lower grade material.

 

On the positive side you won't be able to find many so when you shell out the dough it won't be too often.

 

The hard ones to find "nice" are most of the S mints (12-S being the worst IMO) and the 09-O and 11-D.

 

It's just a poorly made series from the mints....

 

jom

[Mozin]

I had fun completing my Indian Quarter Eagle PCGS Everyman set recently, now at grade 58.0.

 

My MS Registry set of Indian Quarter Eagles sure is costing me a lot more money. I gave up on the Indian Half Eagle set decades ago, simply too many expensive coins.

[James_OldeTowne]

As a series. Hot, Cold, Neutral?

Very active. We cannot keep them in stock, and are pre-sold on specific grades.

 

[coinman_23885]

As a series. Hot, Cold, Neutral?

Very active. We cannot keep them in stock, and are pre-sold on specific grades.

 

What grade ranges? How about in MS63-MS65 condition?

[FishyOne]

Seems like every $5 Indian in true gem mint state is priced at moon money regardless of date. They sell for moon money too so the demand must be there.

[James_OldeTowne]

As a series. Hot, Cold, Neutral?

Very active. We cannot keep them in stock, and are pre-sold on specific grades.

 

What grade ranges? How about in MS63-MS65 condition?

Personally, I think THE hot-spot is MS-62. But they are selling well across the board from MS-62 through MS-65. MS-60/1 are weak, AU-58 is strong IF the coin looks like a true slider.

 

SPOT-FREE is the key to selling them, although I personally do not mind spots at all on gold.

 

Incidentally, they sell very quickly raw, as well as certified, from horrible ex-jewelry through better UNC grades. I am pretty sure that at this moment, we have zero raw examples in any price range.

[Nutmeg Coin]

And yet the $5 Libs. are particularly weak right now. MS61 type coins were selling at nearly $575 a month or so ago, now Heritage/Rarcoa are bidding MS63s a little over $600.

 

On the copper spot issue, NCS is a surefire way to get them off gold coins, turn arounds on those run up to a month but sometimes much faster.

 

I don't have the gumption to try the nitric acid immersion method which I hear is quite effective. Apparently the strychnine method has lost favor.

[physics-fan3.14]

And yet the $5 Libs. are particularly weak right now. MS61 type coins were selling at nearly $575 a month or so ago, now Heritage/Rarcoa are bidding MS63s a little over $600.

 

On the copper spot issue, NCS is a surefire way to get them off gold coins, turn arounds on those run up to a month but sometimes much faster.

 

I don't have the gumption to try the nitric acid immersion method which I hear is quite effective. Apparently the strychnine method has lost favor.

 

Removing copper spots on gold coins is a losing battle. You can temporarily remove the surface toning, but the spot will reappear again a short time later. The problem is an improper alloy mixing, and goes deeper than the surface.

[James_OldeTowne]

And yet the $5 Libs. are particularly weak right now

I agree. $20 Libs are actually stronger than Saints, but in the lower denominations, Libs are not aggressive sellers. The only exception I can think of are the occasional prooflike examples.

[$ilverHawk]

And yet the $5 Libs. are particularly weak right now

I agree. $20 Libs are actually stronger than Saints, but in the lower denominations, Libs are not aggressive sellers. The only exception I can think of are the occasional prooflike examples.

 

James,

 

What do you think is the market psychology behind the higher valuation of Libs versus Saints? Is it based on population or are there other factors involved? I note you segued from $5 Libs to $20 Libs. Is the market in fractional Libs weak?

 

I know, a lot of questions. I'm just looking for a little feedback from someone that is in the trenches on a daily basis.

 

Carl

 

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

Libs. and Saints are completely different collecting worlds; the first was a workhorse of American commerce and banking and trade, the latter had a much shorter run. TR wanted to reinvigorate our coinage with quality design and it makes those gold coins more exciting for those who like the Saints and Indian designs, almost universal. With Libs. the rare dates and branch mints excite collectors.

[BillJones]

The $20 Liberty coins are scarcer in Mint State, much scarcer, than the St. Gardens type. If it were not for the 1904 double eagle, the $20 Liberty would much harder to acquire in MS-63 and 64. Even with the 1904, MS-65 and better Libs are scarce and expensive.

[James_OldeTowne]

James,

 

What do you think is the market psychology behind the higher valuation of Libs versus Saints? Is it based on population or are there other factors involved? I note you segued from $5 Libs to $20 Libs. Is the market in fractional Libs weak?

 

I know, a lot of questions. I'm just looking for a little feedback from someone that is in the trenches on a daily basis.

Great questions, Carl! Bill Jones pretty much addressed it above. One can find Saints in MS-65, and even MS-66, but the Libs are so much tougher in very high grades like that. At AU up through perhaps MS-62, generics for the two series are pretty much tied. It MS-63, though, the Libs suddenly become a lot tougher than Saints.

 

Bill is also right about 1904 being the most common $20 Lib, although most of the other 1900s dates are also fairly common, again through MS-62. We see a lot of 1900, 1904-S, 1903, and even 1898-S, come through the shop in lower UNC grades.

 

To emphasize, you can get MS-65 Saints for a little over $2000, but I don't think you can touch a Lib in MS-65 for under $3500, for any date.