Here we go again. A cleaned Unc coin advertised as Proof

[newprepper]

Is that what this is about? Spelling? I routinely misspell here, not from being stupid, from hitting the wrong button inadvertently. I couldn't care less to make all the corrections, I truly think its about the content of the thread, not what my 9th grade english teacher thinks.

 

Newprepper, it was an attempt to show crypto how juvenile his own ad hominem attacks were. He is questioning the intelligence of those having a problem with a coin listed by Julian, instead of addressing the issue as to whether the coin in question is indeed a proof or not. Nothing more, and nothing less...but it is a bit ironic to have someone come here, tell us all how "low" we are, all while not being able to make complete sentences or spell simple words like interest. That's all.

 

Understand now, sorry.

[crypto79-migration]

Is that what this is about? Spelling? I routinely misspell here, not from being stupid, from hitting the wrong button inadvertently. I couldn't care less to make all the corrections, I truly think its about the content of the thread, not what my 9th grade english teacher thinks.

 

Newprepper, it was an attempt to show crypto how juvenile his own ad hominem attacks were. He is questioning the intelligence of those having a problem with a coin listed by Julian, instead of addressing the issue as to whether the coin in question is indeed a proof or not. Nothing more, and nothing less...but it is a bit ironic to have someone come here, tell us all how "low" we are, all while not being able to make complete sentences or spell simple words like interest. That's all.

 

 

If you "Think" commenting on me fat fingering a word that i typed on a phone's touch pad gives you the moral high ground, That just shows me how misguided your perspective is.

 

My core points that many posts in this thread have taken a personal tone against the man by people with little credentials to launch such attacks remain true. The people who insist that the coin is worth 50$ or less are merely doing the same thing Julian is doing, making an indapendant appraisal of its value based on interpretive facts. The difference is Julian has actual seen the coin and posses the resume that should at the very least be taken seriously.

 

I personally would never buy such a coin so I wouldnt even bother to give an opinion on it. I just find it lame and a joke when unquilifyied people form an opinion that someone else's opinion is wrong based off of two other people's opinions (tpg) all of which they were not part of the formulation of. All the while correlating it to a mans ethics and morality.

 

All of that said- you too are entitled to your opinion just as is Julian, I was just pointing out that yours and a few others were uninformed, baseless, unquilfyied and a little slanderous. Carry on and I look forward to your edits that I may or may not read.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Can we get back to the suspenders and the grayish/whiteish unironed shirt and rolling chair now, before things become less than mannerly?

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Is that what this is about? Spelling? I routinely misspell here, not from being stupid, from hitting the wrong button inadvertently. I couldn't care less to make all the corrections, I truly think its about the content of the thread, not what my 9th grade english teacher thinks.

 

Newprepper, it was an attempt to show crypto how juvenile his own ad hominem attacks were. He is questioning the intelligence of those having a problem with a coin listed by Julian, instead of addressing the issue as to whether the coin in question is indeed a proof or not. Nothing more, and nothing less...but it is a bit ironic to have someone come here, tell us all how "low" we are, all while not being able to make complete sentences or spell simple words like interest. That's all.

 

Understand now, sorry.

 

You really gotta try to keep up, Prep, or we will really, really ignore you.....

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Hey BRG, hit him now with "...indapendant..." and "...actual seen...", while you got him on the ropes.....

 

Then finish up with "...unquilifyied..." and you will win ( I think).

[MJ]

I still find it interestingly that some feel that Julian's intent is to sell a $50 coin for $20,000. That isn't the case at all and couldn't be further from the truth.

 

MJ

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

I still find it interestingly that some feel that Julian's intent is to sell a $50 coin for $20,000. That isn't the case at all and couldn't be further from the truth.

 

MJ

 

Stop using Logic, please. You are screwing up the thrust of the discussion.

[MarkFeld]

I still find it interestingly that some feel that Julian's intent is to sell a $50 coin for $20,000. That isn't the case at all and couldn't be further from the truth.

 

MJ

 

Mark, curiously, if, knowing PCGS and NGC had both labeled the coin a cleaned business strike, you saw the coin in an auction its current holder and felt that it were a Proof, what value would you place upon it?

 

Thanks.

[coinman_23885]

I still find it interestingly that some feel that Julian's intent is to sell a $50 coin for $20,000. That isn't the case at all and couldn't be further from the truth.

 

MJ

 

Mark, curiously, if, knowing PCGS and NGC had both labeled the coin a cleaned business strike, you saw the coin in an auction its current holder and felt that it were a Proof, what value would you place upon it?

 

Thanks.

 

MJ didn't say that he wasn't offering a $50 coin for sale for $20,000; rather, he said that he didn't think it was Julian's intent to do so. Intent is subjective. In other words, I think MJ believes that Julian honestly believes that the coin is a proof, and that attempts to persuade him any differently (including this thread) are futile. That's my guess as to what he is saying.

[MarkFeld]

I still find it interestingly that some feel that Julian's intent is to sell a $50 coin for $20,000. That isn't the case at all and couldn't be further from the truth.

 

MJ

 

Mark, curiously, if, knowing PCGS and NGC had both labeled the coin a cleaned business strike, you saw the coin in an auction its current holder and felt that it were a Proof, what value would you place upon it?

 

Thanks.

 

MJ didn't say that he wasn't offering a $50 coin for sale for $20,000; rather, he said that he didn't think it was Julian's intent to do so. Intent is subjective. In other words, I think MJ believes that Julian honestly believes that the coin is a proof, and that attempts to persuade him any differently (including this thread) are futile. That's my guess as to what he is saying.

 

I understand that. But I am curious as to how people value such a coin, based on the information (or lack thereof) available.

[MJ]

I still find it interestingly that some feel that Julian's intent is to sell a $50 coin for $20,000. That isn't the case at all and couldn't be further from the truth.

 

MJ

 

Mark, curiously, if, knowing PCGS and NGC had both labeled the coin a cleaned business strike, you saw the coin in an auction its current holder and felt that it were a Proof, what value would you place upon it?

 

Thanks.

 

MJ didn't say that he wasn't offering a $50 coin for sale for $20,000; rather, he said that he didn't think it was Julian's intent to do so. Intent is subjective. In other words, I think MJ believes that Julian honestly believes that the coin is a proof, and that attempts to persuade him any differently (including this thread) are futile. That's my guess as to what he is saying.

 

This is exactly what I was saying. One day Julian be proven right in the eyes of public opinion. Probably not. But it's his coin to do what he wants to do with in the meantime. To answer Mark's question directly

 

1) As you know I collect this series and I would be interested in this coin if it was in a problem free holder, stickered and attractive. Since it isn't any of the three I place zero value on the coin for me.

 

2) I have seen but a couple of proof Columbians ever and I'm not qualified as an expert on the subject.

 

3) I have respect for PCGS graders. I have respect for NGC graders. I have respect for Julian. I firmly believe Julian believes this is a proof and he has marketed as such with full disclosure. I have not seen this coin in hand and even if I did I wouldn't be confident that is was or wasn't a proof 100% for sure.

 

4) I'm not a dealer so I don't feel the need to place values on coins I'm not remotely interested in. It just doesn't matter to me nor does it effect me. I think the coin in question here at present doesn't effect 100% of the posters participating in this thread. However, the personal attacks on Julian by some including the OP makes me want to vomit.

 

MJ

[newprepper]

With the experts here, it can definitively be said, that it may or may not be a proof, clear as mud now, haha

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

I still find it interestingly that some feel that Julian's intent is to sell a $50 coin for $20,000. That isn't the case at all and couldn't be further from the truth.

 

MJ

 

Mark, curiously, if, knowing PCGS and NGC had both labeled the coin a cleaned business strike, you saw the coin in an auction its current holder and felt that it were a Proof, what value would you place upon it?

 

Thanks.

 

MJ didn't say that he wasn't offering a $50 coin for sale for $20,000; rather, he said that he didn't think it was Julian's intent to do so. Intent is subjective. In other words, I think MJ believes that Julian honestly believes that the coin is a proof, and that attempts to persuade him any differently (including this thread) are futile. That's my guess as to what he is saying.

 

This is exactly what I was saying. To answer Mark's question directly

 

1) As you know I collect this series and I would be interested in this coin if it was in a problem free holder, stickered and attractive. Since it isn't any of there three I place zero value on the coin for me.

 

2) I have seen but a couple of proof Columbians ever and I'm not qualified as an expert on the subject.

 

3) I have respect for PCGS graders. I have respect for NGC graders. I have respect for Julian. I firmly believe Julian believes this is a proof and he has marketed as such with full disclosure. I have not seen this coin in hand and even if I did I wouldn't be confident that is was or wasn't a proof 100% for sure.

 

MJ

 

I think the question asked by Mr. Feld has to be read carefully.

 

He is not stating or suggesting an intent by anyone, good or bad, nor is he interpreting the comments of others.

 

He simply asked a very good question:

 

If the person viewing the coin FELT it was a Proof, regardless of TPG opinions, or Holder, what value would the person place on the coin?

[MJ]

I still find it interestingly that some feel that Julian's intent is to sell a $50 coin for $20,000. That isn't the case at all and couldn't be further from the truth.

 

MJ

 

Mark, curiously, if, knowing PCGS and NGC had both labeled the coin a cleaned business strike, you saw the coin in an auction its current holder and felt that it were a Proof, what value would you place upon it?

 

Thanks.

 

MJ didn't say that he wasn't offering a $50 coin for sale for $20,000; rather, he said that he didn't think it was Julian's intent to do so. Intent is subjective. In other words, I think MJ believes that Julian honestly believes that the coin is a proof, and that attempts to persuade him any differently (including this thread) are futile. That's my guess as to what he is saying.

 

This is exactly what I was saying. To answer Mark's question directly

 

1) As you know I collect this series and I would be interested in this coin if it was in a problem free holder, stickered and attractive. Since it isn't any of there three I place zero value on the coin for me.

 

2) I have seen but a couple of proof Columbians ever and I'm not qualified as an expert on the subject.

 

3) I have respect for PCGS graders. I have respect for NGC graders. I have respect for Julian. I firmly believe Julian believes this is a proof and he has marketed as such with full disclosure. I have not seen this coin in hand and even if I did I wouldn't be confident that is was or wasn't a proof 100% for sure.

 

MJ

 

I think the question asked by Mr. Feld has to be read carefully.

 

He is not stating or suggesting an intent by anyone, good or bad, nor is he interpreting the comments of others.

 

He simply asked a very good question:

 

If the person viewing the coin FELT it was a Proof, regardless of TPG opinions, or Holder, what value would the person place on the coin?

 

I got it and I expanded my original answer to include a point #4 and some adds and edits. I'm a slow typist.

 

If I was viewing auction lots and If I suspected it was a proof and it wasn't labeled as such I may actually consult a guy like Mark and get a second opinion. Again, only if the coin was trouble free. Then I would have the weigh the time and trouble to get it attributed as a problem free proof in gem or better. Since I have no time and I steer clear of most trouble and I only collect problem free holdered coins this proposition has diminishing value to me. The last thing I want end up with is a stray cat. I take my shots on things I know better.

 

MJ

[lehigh96]

 

If you "Think" commenting on me fat fingering a word that i typed on a phone's touch pad gives you the moral high ground, That just shows me how misguided your perspective is.

 

My core points that many posts in this thread have taken a personal tone against the man by people with little credentials to launch such attacks remain true. The people who insist that the coin is worth 50$ or less are merely doing the same thing Julian is doing, making an indapendant appraisal of its value based on interpretive facts. The difference is Julian has actual seen the coin and posses the resume that should at the very least be taken seriously.

 

As one of the people who has been insisting that the coin is worth $50 or less, let me tell you that you are completely wrong. Neither Julian or I are making an independent appraisal of the coin. All I am doing is accepting the attribution of the coin by both leading THIRD PARTY grading companies. Julian's appraisal is not independent because he is the one in a position to gain financially. I will start taking his resume seriously when he starts making serious listings. Trying to sell that coin in that slab for that price tag without even telling anyone why the coin is actually a proof is IMO, unprofessional and violates PNG rules.

 

I personally would never buy such a coin so I wouldnt even bother to give an opinion on it. I just find it lame and a joke when unquilifyied people form an opinion that someone else's opinion is wrong based off of two other people's opinions (tpg) all of which they were not part of the formulation of. All the while correlating it to a mans ethics and morality.

 

All of that said- you too are entitled to your opinion just as is Julian, I was just pointing out that yours and a few others were uninformed, baseless, unquilfyied and a little slanderous. Carry on and I look forward to your edits that I may or may not read.

 

First, since I sell coins, your comments about me are libelous. You don't know the first thing about me or my numismatic resume. Furthermore, my opinion is not baseless. I gave very logical reasons for my opinion. Lastly, I have never stated the Julian doesn't have the right to sell these coins as proofs for his advertised $20K price tag. My point was that if that is how he conducts his business then I will never be a customer. If he were to simply make his case in writing in the listing why he believes the coin to be a proof, I would never have even chimed in.

 

I am just curious, what would you say if BNB made the same exact E-Bay listing?

 

[Kenneth F]

Hey.. I learned a lesson a while back about questioning somebody about prices.... yes, it was the same person mentioned here. Ive learned that some people think the world of their coins and will ask moon money. The person mentioned above always disagrees with TPGs. It is his right to disagree. And its his right to ask moon money for his coins. Hey.. just do what Ive learned to do.. look and enjoy (laugh or dance.. its your choice).

 

I feel like a bug going towards the bug zapper.. everytime I see this thread, I have to read it.

 

Back to my tasty drinks!

 

I offer the following course of action for this thread..

 

 

[coinman_23885]

I am just curious, what would you say if BNB made the same exact E-Bay listing?

 

What an interesting question. I think he would say the exact thing that has been said in this thread: he should disclose his reasons if he expects people to seriously accept the coin as a proof and purchase it.

[Hard Times]

"3) I have respect for PCGS graders. I have respect for NGC graders. I have respect for Julian. I firmly believe Julian believes this is a proof and he has marketed as such with full disclosure. I have not seen this coin in hand and even if I did I wouldn't be confident that is was or wasn't a proof 100% for sure."

 

Hate to say this, but could it also be that Julian did think it was proof when he bought it, and thus paid proof prices for it, so now, he is buried so deep in it that despite the fact that PCGS and NGC graders has judged otherwise, very likely after research and strong and definitive evidence, that he can't possibly agree with the TPG's and take/admit to such a huge loss/mistake, even if he knows they are probably correct in their assessment. No offense to Julian but I am thinking in possibilities here to his psyche on this one. Again, if it is proof, the onus is on Julian to provide his evidence or I have to consider what some here has said, that he is violating PNG rules over the listing, might have credibility.

 

And I don't agree this thread should be nuked, this is a very important discussion and educational. Vetting out why dealers price coins the way they do will help all of us in our decisions when purchasing I believe.

 

Best, HT

[mkman123]

I wonder if NGC graders are allowed to post and explain the reason why they didn't agree its a proof such as: certain markers do not match known 1893 proofs, etc., After all, these graders have seen it in hand.

[comicdonna]

I am guessing no.