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Toned Peace $ - AT/NT/MA and Grade...

Started by TonerGuy,

47 posts in this topic

TonerGuy

TonerGuy

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I don't think it would grade either because it looks totally AT to me,

 

Even the reverse ? Beyond the darker toning... its hard to get such small tight bands of color around the rim thru an AT process.

 

Can you specify why you think the reverse looks AT to you ? What are the tell-tale signs you are seeing...

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Kurtdog

Kurtdog

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hmmmm what everyone else think? It has a nice look but could be AT?

I love statements of this type. Along the lines, "Gee, I love the tarnish, I hope it's not AT!" Whose eyes are you using? They took the eyeballs out of your head and sent you wallking out of the room before you knew anything was missing, didn't they? Gee, I love the grade, I hope it's not circulated! Don't worry about that, either. Just leave it to the pros. They'll tell you what you like and what you don't like.

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TonerGuy

TonerGuy

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The coin is a conundrum to me.

 

To me, the reverse is potentially NT, but the obverse is clearly AT.

 

Does that really makes sense ? I can understand if you said that the reverse appears to be NT but the obverse is not MA. However, from your statement it appears that you believe that a coin doctor took a coin that was potentially NT and applied artificial toning to the obverse... Is that what you are saying ?

 

And if so, please again elaborate on why you think the obverse is "clearly" AT ?

 

What are the signs of AT you are seeing ?

 

 

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jerseycat10

jerseycat10

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The coin is a conundrum to me.

 

To me, the reverse is potentially NT, but the obverse is clearly AT.

 

Does that really makes sense ? I can understand if you said that the reverse appears to be NT but the obverse is not MA. However, from your statement it appears that you believe that a coin doctor took a coin that was potentially NT and applied artificial toning to the obverse... Is that what you are saying ?

 

And if so, please again elaborate on why you think the obverse is "clearly" AT ?

 

What are the signs of AT you are seeing ?

 

 

That is precisely what I am saying.

 

Starting with the reverse, the color progressions are natural, and it appears to have a bit of tape toning that verifies its originality.

 

Now, as for the obverse, the color progressions are not natural, look near the 'B' in LIBERTY, that teal to pink transition is questionable, not to mention, it looks like something was spilled on the obverse, as you can see liquid borders near the 'L' in LIBERTY. Finally, the obverse just looks, 'off'.

 

So, someone should buy it, dip the obverse, but leave the reverse alone, send it in to NGC and get it mounted reverse up, and sell it for a profit.

 

I'd do it, but I have too many irons in the fire right now as it is.

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L1ncolnF4n

L1ncolnF4n

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I don't doubt it's AT. Even the reverse. Given how little the obverse is colored, the black (or dark color, whatever it is, but my monitor shows black) seems to have developed earlier than is normally would (as in there isn't as much toning on the whole of the coin to make me think that the rest of the reverse is also AT.

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TonerGuy

TonerGuy

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That is precisely what I am saying.

 

Starting with the reverse, the color progressions are natural, and it appears to have a bit of tape toning that verifies its originality.

 

Now, as for the obverse, the color progressions are not natural, look near the 'B' in LIBERTY, that teal to pink transition is questionable, not to mention, it looks like something was spilled on the obverse, as you can see liquid borders near the 'L' in LIBERTY. Finally, the obverse just looks, 'off'.

 

So, someone should buy it, dip the obverse, but leave the reverse alone, send it in to NGC and get it mounted reverse up, and sell it for a profit.

 

I'd do it, but I have too many irons in the fire right now as it is.

 

I agree with that assessment of the reverse. I think the reverse is 100% NT. It might be a little too NT and it might not grade because of corrosion around the rims. But I have seen more darkly toned coins in NGC slabs so Im not sure.

 

I saw the tape toning as well and that helped confirm the reverse as NT in my opinion.

 

As for the obverse, it is a conundrum. I have a hard time believing that a coin doctor would start with a NT reversed toned Peace $ as a basis for an experiment. As you say it could be sold for profit without adding anything to the obverse.

 

Second, the seller was a consignment store and not a coin dealer. And had several other Peace $ that appeared to have been stored in an album. Thus I am inclined to believe its album toning on the obverse as well.

 

It does appear to have had something spilled on the coin but I dont think that had anything to do with applying toning to the coin since the stain does not have color in it.

 

As for the color progression, I have actually seen that color progression on Peace $ before. Rare yes but I have seen it.

 

What the obverse pic doesnt really show unless you increase the size is the green band just around the rim under the date. That seems to indicate NT.

 

But overall I would say that the obverse may not be MA to NGC.

 

Dipping the obverse and leaving the reverse as is might increase the chances of getting it graded. That is an interesting suggestion. Thank you.

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Kurtdog

Kurtdog

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Maybe they don't know themselves what to call AT and NT from one coin to the next, did you ever consider that possibility? There was a thread that was bashing a member that recently got zonked wherein I pointed out two examples of how mixed up they are and that's only for the reason these terms escape rational definition.

 

EDIT: FWIW, I'd think this one has a 50-50 shot on the old coin sniffer. ;)

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JIM F.

JIM F.

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I thought there was a thread about a poster that admitted to doctoring Peace dollars with AT and getting them into TPG holders. If true, that makes all toned Peace dollars suspects. Anyone else remember such posts?

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TonerGuy

TonerGuy

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That would actually make all toned silver dollars suspect.

 

If you can do it with Peace $ why stop there ? Better to try to hit

the big $$$ and move into Morgans. Plus there is less scrutiny on lower

level coins and a much larger collector base.

 

 

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JIM F.

JIM F.

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That would actually make all toned silver dollars suspect.

 

If you can do it with Peace $ why stop there ? Better to try to hit

the big $$$ and move into Morgans. Plus there is less scrutiny on lower

level coins and a much larger collector base.

 

 

Well, you are exactly right. Recall the fake nickels in the early 40's.

 

I remember the name of the poster called into question on the AT Peace Dollars, but will not name him as that is not appropriate. Plus I think the thread was zapped.

 

Just reminding everyone that there was a recent accusation of an individual creating AT Peace dollars that supposedly are now residing in TPG holders. The accuser also claimed the maker admitted to them. I can not verify the accuracy of this, just pointing it out.

 

If the one accused would like to clarify the issue that would be great, but I would not expect it.

 

 

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Kurtdog

Kurtdog

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I thought there was a thread about a poster that admitted to doctoring Peace dollars with AT and getting them into TPG holders. If true, that makes all toned Peace dollars suspects. Anyone else remember such posts?

Yeah, I mentioned it in that post that got zonked a couple days ago. The dealer went five for five on grades over at ATS, from what I recall.

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JIM F.

JIM F.

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Jimbucks it was twinturbo. He mentioned in thread abt making peace dollars.

 

Now that you mentioned his name, has he left these forums?

 

 

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TonerGuy

TonerGuy

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Did he show pics of the coins or just bragged about it ?

 

I would like to see evidence of his work.

 

And I thought they were extremely strict ATS on toned Peace $ or was this something he claimed that he did years ago ?

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JIM F.

JIM F.

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Did he show pics of the coins or just bragged about it ?

 

I would like to see evidence of his work.

 

And I thought they were extremely strict ATS on toned Peace $ or was this something he claimed that he did years ago ?

 

Good question. I suspect he has hit the road never to be seen again under his previous name.

 

 

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Coindude

Coindude

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I don't think it would grade either because it looks totally AT to me,
Even the reverse ? Beyond the darker toning... its hard to get such small tight bands of color around the rim thru an AT process.

Can you specify why you think the reverse looks AT to you ? What are the tell-tale signs you are seeing...

The reverse looks remarkably natural. The obverse looks extremely fishy. So I figure it's an AT that got lucky on the reverse. That's just my opinion and I could very well be wrong.
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Kurtdog

Kurtdog

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Did he show pics of the coins or just bragged about it ?

 

I would like to see evidence of his work.

 

And I thought they were extremely strict ATS on toned Peace $ or was this something he claimed that he did years ago ?

This wasn't the first time the TPGs were called to the carpet in a manner of speaking on these irrational standards and it most likely won't be the last. It's the standards themselves that are the problem, not the TPGs.

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TonerGuy

TonerGuy

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I like it in a STAR NGC holder.

Very attractive peace dollar.

 

From your lips to God's ears...

 

I hope James is right and the color balance is a little off.

 

Overall I like the coin and think its NT. I dont buy the idea that half a coin is AT and the other half is NT.

 

I have seen crazier colors on NT Peace $ I have personally plucked directly from the old cardboard 20th Century sets that are in frames so the obverse toning isnt that much of a worry.

 

However I still wonder what it grades...I cant tell if its AU55 or MS62...

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Flatwoods

Flatwoods

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I'm a little surprised by some of the opinions. I like the coin. The only problem I see with it is the dark rims on the reverse. If it doesn't grade I would guess environmental damage as the reason.

Even if it doesn't grade , I still like her.

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