Need Help Identifying 19 old British Coins

[HiHoAudio]

I bought a lot (#23988) of nineteen British coins recently at the Heritage Long Beach auction on a whim and would like to request some help identifying and grading them plus assigning baseline values.

 

I plan on keeping about one third of these and selling off the rest (probably here) so any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

 

As you may or may not know I am pretty active collecting Conder Tokens, especially the Pidcock series, but will definitely need help with the others.

 

The first coin appears to be a Henry V Groat (Henricus). It weighs 3.75 grams and has a diameter of 25mm. I am told the condition is Nearly Fine.

 

 

I will add a new coin or two every day or so and look forward to any and all comments.

 

[HiHoAudio]

The second coin appears to be a 1697 Farthing or Half Penny. It weighs 5.61 grams and has a diameter of 23mm.

 

 

[Conder101]

On the early British the denomination is not on the coin and often different denominations will have the same or similar designs. Identification of the denomination can hinge on size and weight.

[DaveG]

What Conder101 said.

 

However, looking at my copy of Spink, I would suggest that you have a 1697 farthing, not a halfpenny. To my eye, the bust on the halfpenny is different from the bust on the farthing.

[HiHoAudio]

Dave, I believe you are correct and the 1697 is a farthing and not a half penny.

 

Condor, I agree that size and weight is very important and will provide this info as soon as I get a day off and can liberate the coins from the sealed Heritage holders.

 

Until then I will post the next two coins from the lot.

 

[HiHoAudio]

This appears to be a 1723 Dump Issue Farthing. It weighs 5.06 grams and has a diameter of 23mm.

 

 

 

[HiHoAudio]

1727 Shilling or Six Pence, weighs 5.97 grams and has a diameter of 26mm. The quality and style of the G*R engraving suggests this may have been a presentation piece and not graffiti. Any experts out there who could say for sure?

 

Anyway, a fantastic coin despite the obvious.

Probably a love token and the earliest Guns N Roses reference known to mankind.

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Shame about the graffiti on that shilling - otherwise, that is a fantastic coin.

 

As for the groat, it is impossible for me to tell. All of the groats are so similar, and its just minor variations that tell them apart - especially with all of the legends clipped off. I consulted Spink, which didn't help a whole lot. The coin is probably worth about $40.

 

[HCumberdale]

I like that shilling a lot WITH the graffiti!

[newprepper]

I like that shilling a lot WITH the graffiti!

 

Now we know why axl needed all that plastic surgery

[Six Mile Rick]

The shilling looks swell and the initials match mine and my wife's. Let me know if that one is for sale later on!!

[HiHoAudio]

I like that shilling a lot WITH the graffiti!

 

Everyone who I show it to likes it, the coin has a certain odd charm.

[HiHoAudio]

The shilling looks swell and the initials match mine and my wife's. Let me know if that one is for sale later on!!

 

See? This coin speaks to people.

 

I'll probably keep it but if I change my mind I'll let you know.

 

Onto the next two coins...

[HiHoAudio]

1742 Half Penny? Weighs 9.96 grams and has a diameter of 28mm.

 

 

 

[HiHoAudio]

The first of two 1787 sixpence. This one weighs 3.01 grams and has a diameter of 21mm.

 

The photos only hint at the incredible toning. This beauty is a keeper, even though it's possible that it may have been cleaned at one time. Maybe, maybe not.

 

Also, what are those beads of sweat on his neck? I will eventually post new photos of this coin as time permits, it deserves special attention in my opinion.

 

 

[nemo656]

Guns & Roses RULEZ but ummmm did they rule in 1727?

 

Is that when an album was made using something called vinyl? Didn't you work in the record industry back then?

[RockMyAmadeus]

1727 Shilling?

 

Fantastic coin despite the obvious graffiti.

Probably a love token and the earliest Guns N Roses reference known to mankind.

 

 

The very first thing that sprang to mind when I saw this is the fact that British monarchs for centuries have used a royal cypher, which consists of their first initial and "R", which stands for either Rex or Regina, depending on the gender of the monarch.

 

For example...this is Elizabeth II's royal cypher:

 

 

Also...George II ascended the throne in June, 1727, and common practice at the time (and indeed, up to this day) was to continue general coinage of the previous monarch throughout the year in which they died, giving time for new designs and dies to be made.

 

Due to the quality of the engraving, and date of the coin, it is entirely possible that this was a presentation piece, made especially for the new king, possibly for his coronation in October of that year, and engraved by one of the coiners with his "cypher" (though his actual royal cypher would look different, and include the numeral "2", it might not have been ready at the time.)

 

In fact, it may be hammered using the cypher of his very recently deceased father, George I.

 

Here is George II's official royal cypher:

 

 

That's the first thing I thought when I saw it. I could be wrong, and it could be completely random...but I suspect that's not really the case. If my theory is true, then far from being "graffiti", it is actually an engraving with some real historical value.

 

 

[HiHoAudio]

Very interesting theory RockMyAmadeus, entirely possible and I would love to believe this was a presentation piece. Thanks for this, I really appreciate your contribution to this thread.

 

I just weighed and measured half of the coins and will begin posting size and weights shortly.

[HiHoAudio]

The second of two 1787 sixpence. This weighs 3.0 grams and has a diameter of 22mm.

 

This coin appears to have been struck using new dies, especially the reverse.

 

[HiHoAudio]

1794 Holloway's Bridgewater Half Penny Condor Token

D&H Somersetshire 86

 

OBV: View of a Georgian Building

REV: Borough Of Bridgewater Castle Tower and Turrets above a bridge on the river Parret.

EDGE: On Demand We Promise To Pay

 

Looks Mint State to me, especially the castle side. Sharp strike.

 

 

[HiHoAudio]

1797 Twopence

 

42mm, weight n/a, too heavy for my 40g scale.

 

 

VG or F?

[HiHoAudio]

1799 Half Penny. Weighs 12.36g with a diameter of 30mm.

 

Doubtful I will sell this one...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Yarm]

Cool lot HiHo!

 

The 1797 penny looks like a twopence to me.

[HiHoAudio]

Cool lot HiHo!

 

The 1797 penny looks like a twopence to me.

 

Thanks Yarm.

 

Do you think it's a twopence due to the size? (42mm)

What is the diameter of a 1797 Penny?

 

I have a Norwich twopence from the lot which would support your theory.

Too heavy for my 40g scale, 41mm and clearly marked "2 Penny Token".

[Conder101]

The 1797 penny weighed one oz (28.34 grams) the two pence weighed two oz (56.7 grams). A one penny would not have maxed out your scale.

[HiHoAudio]

1811 Newcastle Penny -- Weighs18.37 grams with a diameter of 34mm.

 

OBV: Sailing ship loading cargo at coal staith with "Bewicke Main Colliery -- 1811"

REV: "One Penny Payable at Newcastle On Tyne and London"

EDGE: Diagonally Milled

 

Davis Northumberland #16, Withers #885

 

 

Make me a decent cash or trade offer and it's yours.....

[HiHoAudio]

1819 Menlough Castle (Ireland) Token -- Weighs 9.77 grams with a diameter of 28mm.

 

OBV: Leopard with "Virtus Sola Nobilitat" (Virtue Alone Ennobles)

REV: Menlough Castle Sixpence Work Token -- 1819

 

Davis #1

 

Fairly rare and worth (I think) about $100 or more in this condition. Usually the leopards face is completely worn down.

 

[HiHoAudio]

1823 Farthing

 

Weighs 4.75 grams with a diameter of 22mm.

 

 

 

[HiHoAudio]

1829 Farthing

 

Weighs 4.56 grams with a diameter of 22mm.

 

 

 

[HiHoAudio]

The 1797 penny weighed one oz (28.34 grams) the two pence weighed two oz (56.7 grams). A one penny would not have maxed out your scale.

 

Good info, thanks!