NGC NYC grading event

[mumu]

In the link below detailing the event, ther disclsoure states

 

"Minimum coin value $1,000 to qualify for this grading event. "

 

Does this mean each coin must be worth this to be graded? Or is that only the part about SB picking the tab for you?

 

To be clear I have some coins, under 1000$ that Id like to get graded, but dont want to sell so dont care about the free SB offer part of it. Is this saying I cant get them graded at all?

 

http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=2893&utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=stacks_bowers_grading_special_collectors

[AnkurJ]

It's only free if you consign your coins.

[mumu]

It's only free if you consign your coins.

 

Yes, that part I understand.

[MarkFeld]

In the link below detailing the event, ther disclsoure states

 

"Minimum coin value $1,000 to qualify for this grading event. "

 

Does this mean each coin must be worth this to be graded? Or is that only the part about SB picking the tab for you?

 

To be clear I have some coins, under 1000$ that Id like to get graded, but dont want to sell so dont care about the free SB offer part of it. Is this saying I cant get them graded at all?

 

http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=2893&utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=stacks_bowers_grading_special_collectors

 

It sounds as if SB is looking for consigned coins which are valued at $1000 or more each. So, if they estimated to be worth less than $1000, my guess is that they don't qualify for consignments or the grading special. But why not ask them directly?

[mumu]

I'll restate the question in case I am unclear to everyone as I was to Ankur.

 

I have some coins I'd like to get graded at this event..

I dont want to sell them.

I realize I have to pay and they will not be free.

They are not worth 1000$ each

Can I still get them graded if I pay the 35+8 grading fee?

[leeg]

In the link below detailing the event, ther disclsoure states

 

"Minimum coin value $1,000 to qualify for this grading event."

I didn't read all the propaganda but this pretty much answers your questions for me.

[mumu]

In the link below detailing the event, ther disclsoure states

 

"Minimum coin value $1,000 to qualify for this grading event."

I didn't read all the propaganda but this pretty much answers your questions for me.

 

Its unclear whether they mean qualifying for the free portion of the deal which I dont care about. I'll just call NGC I guess.

[Nutmeg Coin]

It just sounds like another gimmick for an auction company to get coins. Many coins do not belong in auctions; bullion related pieces, unless they are tops in their category; coins that are easy to sell otherwise; CAC coins that CAC will offer you just as good money without the auction hastles. By having them get the coins graded you lose power over your tangible assets and the terms are tied up in the legalese of the contract. Advances on auction deals are another auction gimmick that weakens the consignors position. Just get the coins graded, pay the $25 required for most coins. What's the big deal? Unfortunately I deal with a lot of chiselling cheapskate dealers who refuse to get most of their coins graded and then want top dollar for their ungraded coins. What they don't realize is that when they put their notional grades on their own coins at shows they are establishing a legal basis if the collectors and dealers send them directly into grading and they come back in a details holder or as altered surfaces!

[MarkFeld]

It just sounds like another gimmick for an auction company to get coins. Many coins do not belong in auctions; bullion related pieces, unless they are tops in their category; coins that are easy to sell otherwise; CAC coins that CAC will offer you just as good money without the auction hastles. By having them get the coins graded you lose power over your tangible assets and the terms are tied up in the legalese of the contract. Advances on auction deals are another auction gimmick that weakens the consignors position. Just get the coins graded, pay the $25 required for most coins. What's the big deal? Unfortunately I deal with a lot of chiselling cheapskate dealers who refuse to get most of their coins graded and then want top dollar for their ungraded coins. What they don't realize is that when they put their notional grades on their own coins at shows they are establishing a legal basis if the collectors and dealers send them directly into grading and they come back in a details holder or as altered surfaces!

 

Sorry, but I must take issue with some of the points you raised, as follows:

 

None of the coins involved would be CAC coins, at least at the time they are graded and consigned to auction. So how CAC coins might sell without going through auction is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion.

 

It doesn't sound as if a submitter has to consign the coins just because they get graded. So there isn't necessarily any loss of "power over your tangible assets" or "tied up in the legalese of the contract".

 

Cash advances don't necessarily weaken the consignor's position.

 

And I don't believe that including a grade (opinion) on a coin flip that accompanies an uncertified coin, establishes a legal basis in the event that the coin is later submitted for grading and no-grades. If that were true, the major grading companies, among many others, might have frequent legal problems.

[$ilverHawk]

Per the last paragraph, the answer is yes. If you do not consign you will be billed the NGC grading fee plus the NGC handling charge of $8.00.

 

It appears that NGC is simply stating that they will be accepting submissions of non consignment coins at this event.

 

Carl

[Nutmeg Coin]

Good points and thanks for holding my feet to the fire on those points as you are one of the true stalwarts on this forum (and others), a man of keen intellect who always has the collectors interest in mind so they don't get fleeced. And though we have similar ethics here is my substantiation for the last point that when a dealer sells a "raw" coin as a certain grade he is liable:

 

 

 

“When (if) you represent that a particular coin is a particular numerical grade, you have made an express warranty that the coin is, in fact, the grade you represented it to be, and if it isn’t, you can be held liable for damages.”

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=295472&STARTPAGE=2

 

[$ilverHawk]

It just sounds like another gimmick for an auction company to get coins. Many coins do not belong in auctions; bullion related pieces, unless they are tops in their category; coins that are easy to sell otherwise; CAC coins that CAC will offer you just as good money without the auction hastles. By having them get the coins graded you lose power over your tangible assets and the terms are tied up in the legalese of the contract. Advances on auction deals are another auction gimmick that weakens the consignors position. Just get the coins graded, pay the $25 required for most coins. What's the big deal? Unfortunately I deal with a lot of chiselling cheapskate dealers who refuse to get most of their coins graded and then want top dollar for their ungraded coins. What they don't realize is that when they put their notional grades on their own coins at shows they are establishing a legal basis if the collectors and dealers send them directly into grading and they come back in a details holder or as altered surfaces!

 

Amazing, the OP s question was expressed very clearly. Yet, you managed to insert a short history of what appears to be some personal negative experiences with auction houses and "chiseling cheapskate dealers".

 

How about a reply to the OP s thread?

 

Carl

[Nutmeg Coin]

On this point:

 

"None of the coins involved would be CAC coins, at least at the time they are graded and consigned to auction. So how CAC coins might sell without going through auction is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion."

 

Nice raw coins that grade without problems can then be submitted to CAC for stickering and sale--no auction, but, yes, it would be difficult to ascertain by looking at the raw coin the likely trajectory, from grading to CAC as an option. I just mentioned it because the auction house will likely pre-screen the coins and discourage unfavorable submissions that may not do well in auction or that may no-grade.

[Nutmeg Coin]

"Amazing, the OP s question was expressed very clearly. Yet, you managed to insert a short history of what appears to be some personal negative experiences with auction houses and "chiseling cheapskate dealers".

 

"How about a reply to the OP s thread?"

 

Carl

 

You completely missed the points I made.

 

Dealers who will not submit coins to get them graded are doing their customers a disservice.

[MarkFeld]

Good points and thanks for holding my feet to the fire on those points as you are one of the true stalwarts on this forum (and others), a man of keen intellect who always has the collectors interest in mind so they don't get fleeced. And though we have similar ethics here is my substantiation for the last point that when a dealer sells a "raw" coin as a certain grade he is liable:

 

 

 

“When (if) you represent that a particular coin is a particular numerical grade, you have made an express warranty that the coin is, in fact, the grade you represented it to be, and if it isn’t, you can be held liable for damages.”

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=295472&STARTPAGE=2

 

You're welcome - it is my pleasure to hold your feet to the fire And on a more serious note, thank you for your very nice comment.

 

I read about the case you noted, a long time ago. My recollection is that it did not simply involve the defendant representing that a coin was a particular grade. But rather, there was an obvious pattern of systematic over-grading on his part, and on a large scale basis.

 

The large majority of sellers who over-grade their coins, don't have to fear such a lawsuit. That said, I do think some of them deserve to be taken to court and forced to pay out large sums of money.

[$ilverHawk]

On this point:

 

"None of the coins involved would be CAC coins, at least at the time they are graded and consigned to auction. So how CAC coins might sell without going through auction is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion."

 

Nice raw coins that grade without problems can then be submitted to CAC for stickering and sale--no auction, but, yes, it would be difficult to ascertain by looking at the raw coin the likely trajectory, from grading to CAC as an option. I just mentioned it because the auction house will likely pre-screen the coins and discourage unfavorable submissions that may not do well in auction or that may no-grade.

 

HUH? How about a reply to the OP s thread.? OP is simply asking what your interpretation of the cited link is in relation to his submission of non consigned coins.

 

Simply trying to get the thread back to the OP s topic.

 

Carl

[newprepper]

Good points and thanks for holding my feet to the fire on those points as you are one of the true stalwarts on this forum (and others), a man of keen intellect who always has the collectors interest in mind so they don't get fleeced. And though we have similar ethics here is my substantiation for the last point that when a dealer sells a "raw" coin as a certain grade he is liable:

 

 

 

“When (if) you represent that a particular coin is a particular numerical grade, you have made an express warranty that the coin is, in fact, the grade you represented it to be, and if it isn’t, you can be held liable for damages.”

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=295472&STARTPAGE=2

 

You make a valid point, Nutmeg, but I don't think it would hold up in court, Page 10 of the recent Redbook, top para: While grading standards strive to be precice,interperatations are SUBJECTIVE, and often vary among collectors, dealers, and certification services.

 

The intro to the ANA grading standards basically states the same thing. If what you are saying is true, when you crossed a coin over and it regraded lower the old TPG could be held liable.

 

 

I think the best you could expect would be a small amount of compensation......maybe

[Nutmeg Coin]

And on this point of Mark Felt:

 

"It doesn't sound as if a submitter has to consign the coins just because they get graded. So there isn't necessarily any loss of "power over your tangible assets" or "tied up in the legalese of the contract".

 

"Cash advances don't necessarily weaken the consignor's position."

 

They don't help. How many auction companies contracts have you read about conditions that follow cash advances and other benefits of doing business with them?

 

Does the consignor get to set the reserve? Does he pay a percentage of unsold lots?

 

Once again we have legal issues that are best explained by lawyers and customers who have had mixed results in their auction submissions.

 

One experience I had was particularly bad with Goldbergs who encouraged me to run nice lots without reserves as they would "do better" which they did not.

[$ilverHawk]

OK, I quit.

 

Carl

[Nutmeg Coin]

http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=2893&utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=stacks_bowers_grading_special_collectors

 

It looks like a really big event. What do you expect me to say?

[$ilverHawk]

No disrespect, Nutmeg. I'm simply out of this thread. Too far off topic for me.

 

Carl

[MarkFeld]

And on this point of Mark Felt:

 

"It doesn't sound as if a submitter has to consign the coins just because they get graded. So there isn't necessarily any loss of "power over your tangible assets" or "tied up in the legalese of the contract".

 

"Cash advances don't necessarily weaken the consignor's position."

 

They don't help. How many auction companies contracts have you read about conditions that follow cash advances and other benefits of doing business with them?

 

Does the consignor get to set the reserve? Does he pay a percentage of unsold lots?

 

Once again we have legal issues that are best explained by lawyers and customers who have had mixed results in their auction submissions.

 

One experience I had was particularly bad with Goldbergs who encouraged me to run nice lots without reserves as they would "do better" which they did not.

 

So you know, my last name is "Feld", not "Felt".

 

While you apparently had a bad experience as a consignor, not all sellers who opt for cash advances have problems like you did. And the contract/agreement terms are usually very straight forward.

[mumu]

What's this thread about?

[newprepper]

Did you find out if you could get your coins graded? I've been chuckling all night everytime you ask.

[mumu]

Did you find out if you could get your coins graded? I've been chuckling all night everytime you ask.

 

I actually still havent gotten a solid answer in this thread . I am obviously not being clear enough.

 

$ilverhawk came close, confirming that I could get my coins graded there(which I already knew) But no clarity if the 1000$ qualifier is for paid gradings or the freebies for those selling their coins(I am not selling my coins)

[mumu]

Ill go a little OT since the thread is derailed anyway and state that I never understood those 1000$ or other number qualifiers such as on the submission form. How do I know what my coin is worth if they havent graded it yet? They are all 1$ in y book (or spot silver ratio I guess more accurately) until a grade is established . Sometimes the difference between an MS 64 can be from 500 to 2000$

[newprepper]

I understood completely, you simply wanted to know if you could walk in, plop down your coins, write a check, get them graded and go home with them................I thought you were going to call NGC.

[mumu]

I understood completely, you simply wanted to know if you could walk in, plop down your coins, write a check, get them graded and go home with them................I thought you were going to call NGC.

 

I will next week.

[newprepper]

Not that we deserve it....................are you going to let us know what you find out?

[mumu]

Not that we deserve it....................are you going to let us know what you find out?

 

I dont think anyone cares but sure.