The "National Gold Exchange" settlement

[Nutmeg Coin]

It looks like this legal matter is going to drag on for quite a while. I still get mailings from the court that is deciding the case with many, many lawyers involved, my sympathies go out to those who are losing money on this settlement. I saw Tom Paine who used to work with that company at the ANA who is trying to get what he is owed in this lawsuit.

[coinman_23885]

Would you have any information about this? I wasn't aware of any law suit.

[Nutmeg Coin]

I don't have a dog in this fight as I hadn't done business with NGE for quite a while before the seizure of assets.

 

My understanding is that the bankruptcy involves the principals who had coins that were seized and those in the process of transactions with NGE. There are many lawyers involved to the tune of big bucks per hour.

[Nutmeg Coin]

A quick search turned up this discussion:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/print-edition/2011/11/11/trustee-lawsuit-national-gold.html?page=all

[Houston Investor]

I get the updates all the time in the mail and while I had bought stuff from them at one time I am not a creditor or have any involvement in their case. I dealt with an account manager who would send me coins on invoice. I paid all my invoices on time and would usually request some coins (mainly World Gold) prior to a show. I found their service very friendly, dependable, and reliable. About half or two thirds would sell and the rest I would purchase and keep in my bank box. When gold shot up not too long a go I blew most of them out on the bourse or the Bay taking my bullion profits (4-5 times what I had in them) and applied the money elsewhere.

[Nutmeg Coin]

Tom Paine, RIP. I saw the full page remembrance ad in Coin World this week.

 

http://funeralhomeweb.net/default.aspx?MemberId=136014&MName=Thomas%20W.%20%20Paine&FLVId=

[TonerGuy]

As a matter of habit I dont trust coin dealers that arent into coins - I dont know why but this one sentence from the article just jumped out at me...

 

Yaffe was paying for construction at his Avila mansion housing his collection of music boxes with the sale of inventory pledged as collateral to Sovereign.

[MarkFeld]

As a matter of habit I dont trust coin dealers that arent into coins - I dont know why but this one sentence from the article just jumped out at me...

 

Yaffe was paying for construction at his Avila mansion housing his collection of music boxes with the sale of inventory pledged as collateral to Sovereign.

 

Do I understand you correctly, that you don't trust coin dealers who collect other things, but not coins? If so, you can take me off of your trusted dealers list.

 

[coinman_23885]

Do I understand you correctly, that you don't trust coin dealers who collect other things, but not coins? If so, you can take me off of your trusted dealers list.

 

What do you collect? You hinted at it once, but I don't remember.

[TonerGuy]

Do I understand you correctly, that you don't trust coin dealers who collect other things, but not coins? If so, you can take me off of your trusted dealers list.

 

You're not a dealer anymore. You work for an auction house dont you ? Did I miss something ? Did you leave HA and start dealing again ?

[physics-fan3.14]

As a matter of habit I dont trust coin dealers that arent into coins - I dont know why but this one sentence from the article just jumped out at me...

 

Yaffe was paying for construction at his Avila mansion housing his collection of music boxes with the sale of inventory pledged as collateral to Sovereign.

 

Collectors collect what they want. Just because someone is a coin dealer doesn't mean they have to be a coin collector (although, it is often the case that they are dealers because they are passionate about coins and enjoy them - so you often find the two are correlated). Saying you don't trust a coin dealer who doesn't collect coins is like saying you don't trust an engineer who doesn't own a calculator at home. It just doesn't make sense.

 

That being said, I do tend to look with suspicion on a "coin dealer" who also deals in baseball cards, and jewelry, and antiques, and a bunch of other stuff. The impression I get (falsely or not) is that they are a jack of all trades and a master of none - nobody can be an expert in everything. To have your attention, experience, and learning divided between several different items means that you sacrifice some in each area. I understand that sometimes it is necessary from a business perspective to branch out, but it may have the effect of reducing your expertise in coins.

[Conder101]

Stay away from Q David Bowers then, he collects (or collected) a lot of different things.

[kryptonitecomics]

As a matter of habit I dont trust coin dealers that arent into coins - I dont know why but this one sentence from the article just jumped out at me...

 

Yaffe was paying for construction at his Avila mansion housing his collection of music boxes with the sale of inventory pledged as collateral to Sovereign.

 

Collectors collect what they want. Just because someone is a coin dealer doesn't mean they have to be a coin collector (although, it is often the case that they are dealers because they are passionate about coins and enjoy them - so you often find the two are correlated). Saying you don't trust a coin dealer who doesn't collect coins is like saying you don't trust an engineer who doesn't own a calculator at home. It just doesn't make sense.

 

That being said, I do tend to look with suspicion on a "coin dealer" who also deals in baseball cards, and jewelry, and antiques, and a bunch of other stuff. The impression I get (falsely or not) is that they are a jack of all trades and a master of none - nobody can be an expert in everything. To have your attention, experience, and learning divided between several different items means that you sacrifice some in each area. I understand that sometimes it is necessary from a business perspective to branch out, but it may have the effect of reducing your expertise in coins.

 

I respect your opinion on a lot of things and you are most certainly entitled to it whether it differs from mine or not. In this case I will tell you that I have collected Baseball cards, Comic books and Coins side by side for several decades and I consider myself to be a subject matter expert and capable dealer in all 3 of these areas (thumbs u

 

I think when you are passionate with what you collect you can acquire a huge amount of knowledge in a short time...and in this case 20+ years was enough time for me to do so across several different collecting niches

[coinman_23885]

That being said, I do tend to look with suspicion on a "coin dealer" who also deals in baseball cards, and jewelry, and antiques, and a bunch of other stuff. The impression I get (falsely or not) is that they are a jack of all trades and a master of none - nobody can be an expert in everything. To have your attention, experience, and learning divided between several different items means that you sacrifice some in each area. I understand that sometimes it is necessary from a business perspective to branch out, but it may have the effect of reducing your expertise in coins.

 

If this were true then it would seem like an excellent opportunity to cherry pick his inventory for rare die marriages, varieties, etc.

[TonerGuy]

Saying you don't trust a coin dealer who doesn't collect coins is like saying you don't trust an engineer who doesn't own a calculator at home. It just doesn't make sense.

 

I look at it more as if I were to take my 1959 Corvette to an auto-restoration shop for it to be restored to its former glory and the owner of the shop told me he really doesnt like cars or working on them. But in his spare time he loves to sew and make children's costumes. He just does the "car thing" as a way to make money.

 

Hey more power to him. But I think I would rather have a gear head working on my car. That doesnt mean that the guy that sews cant do a good job it just means that I want someone that is completely immersed in his business working on my car.

 

I wouldnt want to go to a lawyer or doctor that hates being a lawyer or a doctor.

 

And if a coin dealer sells antiques, jewelry, music boxes or baseball cards I dont necessary have a problem with that. However it depends on what the coin dealer specializes in. I have spoken to many dealers that have admitted to that having other collectibles in their store helps them survive the business realities of owning a store.

 

My comment was more about the passion that I have seen in dealers that love coins and those that I have seen do it as a business. Does it apply to everyone - of course not. But Ive seen the guys that are truly passionate about coins stay in business and I have watched guys that arent leave the business.

 

And being a guy into toners I can honestly say that the couple of dealers that admitted to me that they sold high end AT slab coins were not coin guys. The looked at coins like widgets to be bought and sold.

 

Is that Mark Feld or David Bowers - absolutely not. But are there others out there like that - more than likely.

[Mr. Smith Guesser]

The guy that the article mentions...Mark Yaffe...he's had previous legal issues involving gold and coin sales. This was the guy's house:

...be it ever so humble.

 

Here's a write-up about the house and Yaffe from DailyMail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2299383/Disgraced-Florida-gold-dealers-faux-British-mansion-slashed-half-original-25million-asking-price.html

[physics-fan3.14]

As a matter of habit I dont trust coin dealers that arent into coins - I dont know why but this one sentence from the article just jumped out at me...

 

Yaffe was paying for construction at his Avila mansion housing his collection of music boxes with the sale of inventory pledged as collateral to Sovereign.

 

Collectors collect what they want. Just because someone is a coin dealer doesn't mean they have to be a coin collector (although, it is often the case that they are dealers because they are passionate about coins and enjoy them - so you often find the two are correlated). Saying you don't trust a coin dealer who doesn't collect coins is like saying you don't trust an engineer who doesn't own a calculator at home. It just doesn't make sense.

 

That being said, I do tend to look with suspicion on a "coin dealer" who also deals in baseball cards, and jewelry, and antiques, and a bunch of other stuff. The impression I get (falsely or not) is that they are a jack of all trades and a master of none - nobody can be an expert in everything. To have your attention, experience, and learning divided between several different items means that you sacrifice some in each area. I understand that sometimes it is necessary from a business perspective to branch out, but it may have the effect of reducing your expertise in coins.

 

I respect your opinion on a lot of things and you are most certainly entitled to it whether it differs from mine or not. In this case I will tell you that I have collected Baseball cards, Comic books and Coins side by side for several decades and I consider myself to be a subject matter expert and capable dealer in all 3 of these areas (thumbs u

 

I think when you are passionate with what you collect you can acquire a huge amount of knowledge in a short time...and in this case 20+ years was enough time for me to do so across several different collecting niches

 

I know you collect those other things - but looking through your inventory it is always coins, with a couple of other things on the side. You are very knowledgeable on coins, no one will deny that. Maybe I'm wrong in my assumptions, or maybe you are the exception? I didn't intend any offense, its just been my perception when talking to guys set up at shows who have several different things.

[kryptonitecomics]

As a matter of habit I dont trust coin dealers that arent into coins - I dont know why but this one sentence from the article just jumped out at me...

 

Yaffe was paying for construction at his Avila mansion housing his collection of music boxes with the sale of inventory pledged as collateral to Sovereign.

 

Collectors collect what they want. Just because someone is a coin dealer doesn't mean they have to be a coin collector (although, it is often the case that they are dealers because they are passionate about coins and enjoy them - so you often find the two are correlated). Saying you don't trust a coin dealer who doesn't collect coins is like saying you don't trust an engineer who doesn't own a calculator at home. It just doesn't make sense.

 

That being said, I do tend to look with suspicion on a "coin dealer" who also deals in baseball cards, and jewelry, and antiques, and a bunch of other stuff. The impression I get (falsely or not) is that they are a jack of all trades and a master of none - nobody can be an expert in everything. To have your attention, experience, and learning divided between several different items means that you sacrifice some in each area. I understand that sometimes it is necessary from a business perspective to branch out, but it may have the effect of reducing your expertise in coins.

 

I respect your opinion on a lot of things and you are most certainly entitled to it whether it differs from mine or not. In this case I will tell you that I have collected Baseball cards, Comic books and Coins side by side for several decades and I consider myself to be a subject matter expert and capable dealer in all 3 of these areas (thumbs u

 

I think when you are passionate with what you collect you can acquire a huge amount of knowledge in a short time...and in this case 20+ years was enough time for me to do so across several different collecting niches

 

I know you collect those other things - but looking through your inventory it is always coins, with a couple of other things on the side. You are very knowledgeable on coins, no one will deny that. Maybe I'm wrong in my assumptions, or maybe you are the exception? I didn't intend any offense, its just been my perception when talking to guys set up at shows who have several different things.

 

 

I am not offended and like I said...you are entitled to your opinion...I simply point out that in some cases you might be proved wrong. I don't like to sell my comics and cards...when you see them listed they are from my personal collection and I don't get these on consignment as I don't actively advertise that I sell other collectibles. I could easily sit down in a room full of Sports card or comic book dealers and hold my own as I consider myself very knowledgeable about both subjects as I collected in both areas before I actively collected coins (thumbs u

[MarkFeld]

Saying you don't trust a coin dealer who doesn't collect coins is like saying you don't trust an engineer who doesn't own a calculator at home. It just doesn't make sense.

 

I look at it more as if I were to take my 1959 Corvette to an auto-restoration shop for it to be restored to its former glory and the owner of the shop told me he really doesnt like cars or working on them. But in his spare time he loves to sew and make children's costumes. He just does the "car thing" as a way to make money.

 

Hey more power to him. But I think I would rather have a gear head working on my car. That doesnt mean that the guy that sews cant do a good job it just means that I want someone that is completely immersed in his business working on my car.

 

I wouldnt want to go to a lawyer or doctor that hates being a lawyer or a doctor.

 

And if a coin dealer sells antiques, jewelry, music boxes or baseball cards I dont necessary have a problem with that. However it depends on what the coin dealer specializes in. I have spoken to many dealers that have admitted to that having other collectibles in their store helps them survive the business realities of owning a store.

 

My comment was more about the passion that I have seen in dealers that love coins and those that I have seen do it as a business. Does it apply to everyone - of course not. But Ive seen the guys that are truly passionate about coins stay in business and I have watched guys that arent leave the business.

 

And being a guy into toners I can honestly say that the couple of dealers that admitted to me that they sold high end AT slab coins were not coin guys. The looked at coins like widgets to be bought and sold.

 

Is that Mark Feld or David Bowers - absolutely not. But are there others out there like that - more than likely.

 

Your apparent assumption about Yaffe is incorrect and your analogies to auto restorers and lawyers and doctors who don't like what they do, were very poor ones. The fact that he collects music boxes doesn't mean that he doesn't love coins. I have known him for more than 20 years and have good reason to believe he is passionate about them.

[TonerGuy]

 

Your apparent assumption about Yaffe is incorrect and your analogies to auto restorers and lawyers and doctors who don't like what they do, were very poor ones. The fact that he collects music boxes doesn't mean that he doesn't love coins. I have known him for more than 20 years and have good reason to believe he is passionate about them.

 

He must love coins or at least what coins allowed him to build... you really have to see the photos of this guy's home...

 

Mark - have you been to this home ? Is it really this palatial ?

 

I do think he's passionate about building a mansion he can no longer afford though...

 

Click for more photos ---> Disgraced gold dealer's faux Versailles mansion in Florida available for $12.9m after being slashed to half price

[coinman_23885]

The guy that the article mentions...Mark Yaffe...he's had previous legal issues involving gold and coin sales. This was the guy's house:

...be it ever so humble.

 

Here's a write-up about the house and Yaffe from DailyMail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2299383/Disgraced-Florida-gold-dealers-faux-British-mansion-slashed-half-original-25million-asking-price.html

 

Nice house; I wish I could afford something like that.

[comicdonna]

As a matter of habit I dont trust coin dealers that arent into coins - I dont know why but this one sentence from the article just jumped out at me...

 

Yaffe was paying for construction at his Avila mansion housing his collection of music boxes with the sale of inventory pledged as collateral to Sovereign.

 

Collectors collect what they want. Just because someone is a coin dealer doesn't mean they have to be a coin collector (although, it is often the case that they are dealers because they are passionate about coins and enjoy them - so you often find the two are correlated). Saying you don't trust a coin dealer who doesn't collect coins is like saying you don't trust an engineer who doesn't own a calculator at home. It just doesn't make sense.

 

That being said, I do tend to look with suspicion on a "coin dealer" who also deals in baseball cards, and jewelry, and antiques, and a bunch of other stuff. The impression I get (falsely or not) is that they are a jack of all trades and a master of none - nobody can be an expert in everything. To have your attention, experience, and learning divided between several different items means that you sacrifice some in each area. I understand that sometimes it is necessary from a business perspective to branch out, but it may have the effect of reducing your expertise in coins.

 

I respect your opinion on a lot of things and you are most certainly entitled to it whether it differs from mine or not. In this case I will tell you that I have collected Baseball cards, Comic books and Coins side by side for several decades and I consider myself to be a subject matter expert and capable dealer in all 3 of these areas (thumbs u

 

I think when you are passionate with what you collect you can acquire a huge amount of knowledge in a short time...and in this case 20+ years was enough time for me to do so across several different collecting niches

 

I know you collect those other things - but looking through your inventory it is always coins, with a couple of other things on the side. You are very knowledgeable on coins, no one will deny that. Maybe I'm wrong in my assumptions, or maybe you are the exception? I didn't intend any offense, its just been my perception when talking to guys set up at shows who have several different things.

 

I could easily sit down in a room full of Sports card or comic book dealers and hold my own as I consider myself very knowledgeable about both subjects as I collected in both areas before I actively collected coins (thumbs u

Will the Tec #27 CGC 9.2 beat the Action #1 CGC 9,0 sale?

[MarkFeld]

 

Your apparent assumption about Yaffe is incorrect and your analogies to auto restorers and lawyers and doctors who don't like what they do, were very poor ones. The fact that he collects music boxes doesn't mean that he doesn't love coins. I have known him for more than 20 years and have good reason to believe he is passionate about them.

 

He must love coins or at least what coins allowed him to build... you really have to see the photos of this guy's home...

 

Mark - have you been to this home ? Is it really this palatial ?

 

I do think he's passionate about building a mansion he can no longer afford though...

 

Click for more photos ---> Disgraced gold dealer's faux Versailles mansion in Florida available for $12.9m after being slashed to half price

 

I have not been to his home. But one time, years ago, I was fortunate to see a few of his music boxes. They were amazing.

[kryptonitecomics]

As a matter of habit I dont trust coin dealers that arent into coins - I dont know why but this one sentence from the article just jumped out at me...

 

Yaffe was paying for construction at his Avila mansion housing his collection of music boxes with the sale of inventory pledged as collateral to Sovereign.

 

Collectors collect what they want. Just because someone is a coin dealer doesn't mean they have to be a coin collector (although, it is often the case that they are dealers because they are passionate about coins and enjoy them - so you often find the two are correlated). Saying you don't trust a coin dealer who doesn't collect coins is like saying you don't trust an engineer who doesn't own a calculator at home. It just doesn't make sense.

 

That being said, I do tend to look with suspicion on a "coin dealer" who also deals in baseball cards, and jewelry, and antiques, and a bunch of other stuff. The impression I get (falsely or not) is that they are a jack of all trades and a master of none - nobody can be an expert in everything. To have your attention, experience, and learning divided between several different items means that you sacrifice some in each area. I understand that sometimes it is necessary from a business perspective to branch out, but it may have the effect of reducing your expertise in coins.

 

I respect your opinion on a lot of things and you are most certainly entitled to it whether it differs from mine or not. In this case I will tell you that I have collected Baseball cards, Comic books and Coins side by side for several decades and I consider myself to be a subject matter expert and capable dealer in all 3 of these areas (thumbs u

 

I think when you are passionate with what you collect you can acquire a huge amount of knowledge in a short time...and in this case 20+ years was enough time for me to do so across several different collecting niches

 

I know you collect those other things - but looking through your inventory it is always coins, with a couple of other things on the side. You are very knowledgeable on coins, no one will deny that. Maybe I'm wrong in my assumptions, or maybe you are the exception? I didn't intend any offense, its just been my perception when talking to guys set up at shows who have several different things.

 

I could easily sit down in a room full of Sports card or comic book dealers and hold my own as I consider myself very knowledgeable about both subjects as I collected in both areas before I actively collected coins (thumbs u

Will the Tec #27 CGC 9.2 beat the Action #1 CGC 9,0 sale?

 

 

I vote no. Could it happen based on how well high grade Tecs have sold for years...even surpassing the value of the action #1...most certainly but I still feel that Action #1 is the better book. (thumbs u

[RWB]

Too long a walk to the pool. Is there a moving walkway?

[Mr. Smith Guesser]

Is there a moving walkway?

Nah, you're carried out there on a jewel-encrusted gold throne by a team of Eastern European lingerie models.

[Conder101]

Nice house; I wish I could afford something like that.

I wouldn't mind being able to afford the house, but I wouldn't want the house itself. I find that no mater where I live I tend to spend 95% of my time in a single room. I woul have no use for all that wasted space or the expense in its upkeep.

[PerryHall]

Nice house; I wish I could afford something like that.

I wouldn't mind being able to afford the house, but I wouldn't want the house itself. I find that no mater where I live I tend to spend 95% of my time in a single room. I woul have no use for all that wasted space or the expense in its upkeep.

 

Agree. Such a conspicuous display of wealth is obscene. If it were my home I'd sell it and give the money to some worth charities.

[jpcienkus]

While the mansion is certainly beautiful, even if I could afford it, I would never own a place like that...it's just not me!

 

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

I had customers when I was doing full time tree and landscape work who built houses like that. One investment banker built a custom 20,000 sq. ft. house that my uncle said looked like a cathedral. But after spending well over $10 million on the project he never actually lived in it, he just enjoyed the project while in progress for his growing ego, plus his wife was into feng shui. Last I saw it was on the market at a substantial loss. I can't recall down to earth people wanting to live in huge houses. There is the "Citizen Kane" syndrome.