A stranger saved me from a $50 blunder! posted by Yankeejose

[CSJournals-migration]

Plus a valuable lesson-always check the coins very closely!

 

This story is almost too embarrassing to share but hopefully it may help a fellow collector avoid the mistakes I made. Tuesday I received a message through my EBay account. It came from someone I did not know and as far as I know have never dealt with in the past. He/she suggested I take a closer look at the raw VF/EF 1889 S Morgan dollar I bought a couple of weeks ago. They pointed out that the coin I bought had the same marks at 9 o clock on the reverse as 2 other coins sold by the same seller. The other coins were an 1899 S and a 1900 S. Now even I know that rarely will the same die last a full year-much less in a 10 year span. Sure enough I looked at the EBay listing pictures of the 3 coins and they had the exact same bubbles in the exact same place. From what I have read bubbles are a classic sign of Chinese counterfeits. It would make sense that to save time/money they would use the same reverse dies on all the fakes. All 3 coins looked the same VF/EF. I contacted the seller and he replied that the marks could have been made by his coin cleaning machine. He said it was missing the rubber protector and the holder could have caused the damage and he always put the coins on the cleaner at the 9 o clock position on the reverse. Sounded like a lot of bull to me.

The first thing I did when I got home from work was pull out that Morgan. My first action was to do the silver ping test- no ping. I pulled out an Ike and pinged it- same dull thud. I looked at it closer- the marks were not dings or scratches- they were raised up. The reverse rim had machining lines around the lower portion- like the slug moved in the holder when they punched it. Then I looked at the reeded edge. The reeding on my other Morgans look like triangles lined up in a row. This coin's reeding looked more like it had the metal dug out to create the appearance of reeding- like being turned against a gear. Needless to say I contacted the seller again and advised him I wanted to return the coin as a fake. To his credit he said he accepted returns for any reason. His second response was a little more contrite- he said he did not sell many Morgans and that he appreciated my feedback. The coin was in the mail the next day.

Back to lessons learned- I obviously was getting lazy in my inspections of my raw coins purchases. I used to do the ping test religiously on all larger silver coins. Also I spent more time trying to grade this coin than actually inspecting it for authenticity. This coin did look very real in many respects- a very good fake. It also surprised me that counterfeiters would make circulated coins that only sell for 50 to 100 dollars. I incorrectly assumed that since I was buying coins in the cheaper price range I was immune from counterfeits. But I guess if they make enough 50 dollar fakes it can be very profitable.

Needless to say I checked all my other raw Morgan- luckily all seemed to check out ok.

So what is that expression- fool me once, shame on you -- fool me twice, shame on me?

Be careful out there- Happy Collecting! Dave (Yankeejose)

 

See more journals by Yankeejose

[newprepper]

Dealer name?

[SPHansen]

You should really get the PCGS Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection... That book has saved me a ton of cash already. I am able to detect the most obvious markers, even in the poor eBay pictures that most have up there. That and the Red Book are always at my side

[moondoggy]

yes what was the sellers name ?

[mkman123]

please let everyone know sellers name as he could easily pass the fakes off

[Yankeejose]

The Ebay store is called Everything for Coins and Currency

 

SP- thanks for the tip on the PCGS book- I already found one used on Amazon!

[SPHansen]

Here's link to one of the seller's auctions... look closely

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1943-STEEL-LINCOLN-WHEAT-PENNY-/260666240829?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3cb0eb2f3d#ht_632wt_1163

 

The fields of these coins show those tell-tale markings... this coin has been resurfaced... very common with Steelies. You'll see them in many aftermarket sets, especially from Littleton. Littleton actually includes a certificate that tells you they have been resurfaced.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Plus, they're selling "pennies", which were never made by the US Mint...

 

 

[coinsbygary]

Thanks for the tip Yankeejose, the learning never stops. I don't often buy raw Morgans, so I don't pay much attention to fakes. Even though all my Morgans are slabbed, the Chinese are getting better at counterfeiting and I should not take it for granted. All the best!

Gary

[JAA]

Thanks for the heads up. Unfortunately the Chinese are really flooding the market with Counterfeits so you need to be very careful when purchasing raw coins. Its nice that the dealer stood behind his merchandize and refunded your purchase price.

[Mokiechan]

Your experience is scary in that the Chinese are now selling relatively inexpensive coins and probably making a very good profit on each. They are also getting so good that a digital scale and high quality loupe are an absolute must for any serious collector.

 

 

Malcolm

[grip]

And most are not silver:(..Best to buy PCGS,NGC,ANACS,and older PCI holders.

[tenacious]

The seller's name is ges0781.

 

His store is Everything for Coins and Currency.

 

Jeezus yankeejose you made such a thorough post with a picture even but you couldn't make the seller's name clear.