Artificial Toning

[Hard Times]

ar·ti·fi·cial

1.made by human skill; produced by humans ( opposed to natural): artificial flowers.

2.imitation; simulated; sham: artificial vanilla flavoring.

3.lacking naturalness or spontaneity; forced; contrived; feigned: an artificial smile.

4.full of affectation; affected; stilted: artificial manners; artificial speech.

5.made without regard to the particular needs of a situation, person, etc.; imposed arbitrarily; unnatural: artificial rules for dormitory residents.

 

 

improper

1.not proper; not strictly belonging, applicable, correct, etc.; erroneous: He drew improper conclusions from the scant evidence.

2.not in accordance with propriety of behavior, manners, etc.: improper conduct at a funeral.

3.unsuitable or inappropriate, as for the purpose or occasion: improper attire for a formal dance.

4.abnormal or irregular: improper functioning of the speech mechanism.

 

reading the definitions above, either artificial or improper would be an acceptable adjective to some kinds of toning.......

 

Best, HT

 

 

[WinstonWare]

Years ago there was a lively discussion on both this board and the pcgs board regarding MS-70 turning copper blue/purple. The conversation on the pcgs boards was quickly deleted in accordance with their content censorship policies but an interesting discussion and debate continued on the NGC boards.

 

Oh yeah, there is also tater-sacking coins to tone them. I don’t think that was mentioned.

 

[newprepper]

Yeah but tater sacks are hard to come by these days, you have to go to some fair and push a little kid down, grab the sack, and run like crazy, at almost 50, its just not woth the hassle. Not to mention somebody is videoing their kid and it will probably end up on youtube

[leeg]

Oh yeah, there is also tater-sacking coins to tone them. I don’t think that was mentioned.

I very recently heard this term spoken for the first time by a very, very, very, well respected person in this hobby:

 

Coin is AT: "Gauze"

[mtnstyne]

 

I always hate posting this link because it probably just leads to more ruined coins...but it's good to know.

 

this one is how to reverse the process

 

[James_OldeTowne]

ar·ti·fi·cial

1.made by human skill; produced by humans ( opposed to natural): artificial flowers.

2.imitation; simulated; sham: artificial vanilla flavoring.

3.lacking naturalness or spontaneity; forced; contrived; feigned: an artificial smile.

I'm glad you posted this, because it illustrates well why "artificial" is an absurd term for what it's seemingly always used for.

 

The luster on a newly minted coin? It's ARTIFICIAL, because it is created by humans. Have you ever seen the natural luster of silver crystal? I have. It looks nothing like the cartwheel effect of a silver dollar.

 

And, does album toning on silver coins somehow look more natural than the even greyish color on old silverware?

 

The very coins we are talking about are themselves... artificial! They are, as the definition says, contrived by humans. I have never yet found a coin growing on a tree, or spontaneously popping out of a silver mine.

[newprepper]

I understand the reasoning behind the use of artificial versus natural, natural toning is the accidental colorization of the coin through time and accidental environmental storage versus the artificial toning being the purposeful colorization through the manufacture of man-made oxidation by speeding up the process with chemicals, heat or electricity, or other means. Kinda like diamonds, man-made or natural, you wouldn't pay big bucks for a ring for your wife with man-made even though they are both made of carbon, one by time one in a lab

[Kurtdog]

I understand the reasoning behind the use of artificial versus natural [...]

There's no reasoning behind it. Just money.

 

[newprepper]

I wasn't clear, I was meaning the reasoning for using the term artificial. Sorry

[Raisethis2]

I look at these coin Doctors as coin destroyers. Whenever I see a toned coin on E-Bay that's remotely suspect immediately I look to see what else the party offers. If there are any others toned similarly that seller gets on the banned sellers list.

 

BTW, I think it's against the law to destroy money in America.

[newprepper]

I didn't mean to imply I agree with the practice, however there are a lot of colorized eagles painted. If somebody wants to tone a coin for sale and says its been juiced, No problem, passing off as a "natural" in the numismatic realm is wrong. It is against the law to deface money and then use it. I guess you would have to get with the Secret Service for the definition of deface

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

ar·ti·fi·cial

1.made by human skill; produced by humans ( opposed to natural): artificial flowers.

2.imitation; simulated; sham: artificial vanilla flavoring.

3.lacking naturalness or spontaneity; forced; contrived; feigned: an artificial smile.

I'm glad you posted this, because it illustrates well why "artificial" is an absurd term for what it's seemingly always used for.

 

The luster on a newly minted coin? It's ARTIFICIAL, because it is created by humans. Have you ever seen the natural luster of silver crystal? I have. It looks nothing like the cartwheel effect of a silver dollar.

 

And, does album toning on silver coins somehow look more natural than the even greyish color on old silverware?

 

The very coins we are talking about are themselves... artificial! They are, as the definition says, contrived by humans. I have never yet found a coin growing on a tree, or spontaneously popping out of a silver mine.

 

I think the posit being presented may be slightly flawed.

 

Should not the logic posit of the language account for context of use?

 

Mixing propriety- a social concept- with human action intending to deceive-a physical act- would seem to be a posit flaw.

 

Luster is an appearance. Is it physical or is it a social concept?

 

Is contrived toning a physical act or a social concept? I am not referring to the human reaction to contrived toning, or arquing the social propriety of contrived toning.

 

Silver crystal is not contrived, nor is it a social concept.

 

The decided difference of appearance from one item vs. another item can be enhanced, a physical act. it is when the physical act of changing a physical item with intent to deceive, that the item becomes artificially enhanced.

 

Might we possibly agree on the term "contrived toning"? I would think Mr. Webster might approve this as a settlement.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

[James_OldeTowne]

BTW, I think it's against the law to destroy money in America.

Unfortunatley, that is a very common, but erroneous belief.

 

Edited to add:

Incidentally, does it ever occur to folks that "grading" itself is artificial? A coin does not inherently have some sort of "grade" attached to it. The numbers we assign to coins are purely an artifice of convenience. Really, pretty much EVERYthing about coins and collecting them is "artificial", so why even bother attaching that term to "toning" when so many alternative terms could be so much more useful?

 

I really do like my new term: "improperly toned".

[Kurtdog]

John, I have to tell you, that's about as clear as mud to me.

[newprepper]

So.............I think we all agree, in not so many words, AT BAD, since we have all basically said the same thing

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

John, I have to tell you, that's about as clear as mud to me.

 

Yes, I can understand.

 

It was a very artificial attempt to contrive an alternate designation.

 

I guess the written word has lost its luster.

 

It is crystal clear to me now, and I apologize for my attempt to deceive.

 

It was absurd on my part to think I could enhance the conversation.

 

Respect To All,

 

John Curlis

[dimefreak]

electroplating isnt gonna bring you any money/luck either. Any of the methods that have instant results wont get past tpg's. There are some methods that take anywheres from a week to a few months.

[e1cnr]

electroplating isnt gonna bring you any money/luck either. Any of the methods that have instant results wont get past tpg's. There are some methods that take anywheres from a week to a few months.

 

And some methods that take 5 to 40 years

 

 

Are their firms that actually perform artificial grading?

[dimefreak]

electroplating isnt gonna bring you any money/luck either. Any of the methods that have instant results wont get past tpg's. There are some methods that take anywheres from a week to a few months.

 

And some methods that take 5 to 40 years

 

 

Are their firms that actually perform artificial grading?

 

Thats true. And those would most likely not be considered AT right? Artificial grading? Not sure I follow what your asking there. When I mentioned getting past tpg's I was referring to well done AT jobs. Kind of like the Peacock Ikes that you have experience with.

[mtnstyne]

electroplating isnt gonna bring you any money/luck either. Any of the methods that have instant results wont get past tpg's. There are some methods that take anywheres from a week to a few months.

 

I disagree, I think it would be quite easy to buy ASE at spot plus a couple bucks, color em up and sell em online for a premium. I haven't done it but I have sure considered it to fund real coin collecting. Since I don't consider ASE as coins then it really doesn't bother me to ruin them. Real coins are another story.

[dimefreak]

electroplating isnt gonna bring you any money/luck either. Any of the methods that have instant results wont get past tpg's. There are some methods that take anywheres from a week to a few months.

 

I disagree, I think it would be quite easy to buy ASE at spot plus a couple bucks, color em up and sell em online for a premium. I haven't done it but I have sure considered it to fund real coin collecting. Since I don't consider ASE as coins then it really doesn't bother me to ruin them. Real coins are another story.

I have yet to see a convincing electroplate