Crazy Gold Sticker prices!

[AnkurJ]

Even I have to admit that this is insane. I just saw what this went for.

 

So in October 2011 a NGC XF45 CAC holder and went for $4600.

 

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1160&lotNo=4986

 

Yesterday a PCGS XF40 Gold CAC went for...

 

$14950!!!!

 

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1172&lotNo=4977

 

WOW! Makes the NGC coin look like a bargain!

[mkman123]

Gold sticker fever is nuts

[x2rider]

Wow . That's a nice pay day

 

What I might have to do is look at my properly graded coins in NGC put them to PCGS and then send them to CAC for a gold sticker.

 

Instant 300% increase

[nk1nk]

Ankur,

 

your not implying this is the same exact coin in both auctions are you? because they are clearly different coins. But I agree it's insane that a gold sticker would bring in that much more money.

 

Nick

[AnkurJ]

You're correct Nick! On closer inspection the coin is slightly different.

[coinman_23885]

Ankur,

 

your not implying this is the same exact coin in both auctions are you? because they are clearly different coins. But I agree it's insane that a gold sticker would bring in that much more money.

 

Nick

 

It looks like a different coin to me as well.

 

Edited to add: In addition to having slightly different contact marks and other surface characteristics that could be used as diagnostics to identify this as a different coin, it is also notable that the NGC specimen is from a new holder (within the last 12-18 months) and the PCGS coin is an older generation holder (at least 15 years ago or so), so I don't think this is a case of a NGC being downgraded by PCGS.

[mkman123]

x2rider no need to cross, if you can get a gold cac on your NGC holders, you will also get a crazy price!

[MJ]

Ankur,

 

your not implying this is the same exact coin in both auctions are you? because they are clearly different coins. But I agree it's insane that a gold sticker would bring in that much more money.

 

Nick

 

It looks like a different coin to me as well.

 

Edited to add: In addition to having slightly different contact marks and other surface characteristics that could be used as diagnostics to identify this as a different coin, it is also notable that the NGC specimen is from a new holder (within the last 12-18 months) and the PCGS coin is an older generation holder (at least 15 years ago or so), so I don't think this is a case of a NGC being downgraded by PCGS.

 

the holder itself is a dead give away. Not the same coin so no conclusions can be drawn. MJ

[AnkurJ]

Edited, my mistake.

[BillJones]

The PCGS gold sticker coin is clearly better, but it is more like an AU-50, not an AU-58. The buyer paid AU-58 money for it. Going by the Gray Sheet the price jumps from $4,700 in AU-50 to $12,500 in AU-58.

 

This is actually a minor type that some collectors regocnize. The bust and placement of the date are different from those that follow. Nevertheless it's not on my want list.

[messydesk]

Just wait. Before long, TPGs will allow you to specify a maximum grade on their submission forms. If a coin grades higher than a certain grade, don't holder it. This way, you don't have to worry about cracking a coin out to resubmit if you can't catch the graders on a "bad day" and get the lower grade you want that will let you get the gold sticker that will make your coin triple in value.

[BillJones]

Just wait. Before long, TPGs will allow you to specify a maximum grade on their submission forms. If a coin grades higher than a certain grade, don't holder it. This way, you don't have to worry about cracking a coin out to resubmit if you can't catch the graders on a "bad day" and get the lower grade you want that will let you get the gold sticker that will make your coin triple in value.

 

It is insanity when you divorce the value of the coin in the holder from the true market because of the color of the sticker.

[mumu]

Im sure the buyer is in that crowd of people who call me and others moroons for not understanding how great CAC is.

[TomB]

I'm not certain how much the gold sticker played a part in the price of the PCGS certified coin, though I would imagine that it no doubt helped the price go higher. However, the PCGS coin is in an older holder and appears to have significantly more meat on it than the NGC coin, which happens to be in a newer holder. Those factors, in addition to the fact that the NGC coin was sold at the absolutely dead Pittsburgh ANA last year, could make the PCGS coin go for a higher price. Therefore, you have at least four factors (PCGS vs. NGC; old holder vs. new holder; 2012 Summer FUN vs. 2011 Pittsburgh ANA; and a coin with significantly more meat and luster in the PCGS holder) in addition to the CAC gold sticker that might have caused the higher price.

[MarkFeld]

Im sure the buyer is in that crowd of people who call me and others moroons for not understanding how great CAC is.

 

Please cite a single example where someone was called a moreon (misspelled in order not to have it censored), or even something similar, for not "understanding how great CAC is". If you want to make a point, why not do so without such exaggerations?

[MarkFeld]

I'm not certain how much the gold sticker played a part in the price of the PCGS certified coin, though I would imagine that it no doubt helped the price go higher. However, the PCGS coin is in an older holder and appears to have significantly more meat on it than the NGC coin, which happens to be in a newer holder. Those factors, in addition to the fact that the NGC coin was sold at the absolutely dead Pittsburgh ANA last year, could make the PCGS coin go for a higher price. Therefore, you have at least four factors (PCGS vs. NGC; old holder vs. new holder; 2012 Summer FUN vs. 2011 Pittsburgh ANA; and a coin with significantly more meat and luster in the PCGS holder) in addition to the CAC gold sticker that might have caused the higher price.

 

Agreed. We don't know how much of a part the sticker, as opposed to the quality of the coin, played in the price difference.

[AnkurJ]

Mumu, the greatness of CAC has nothing to do with what someone is willing to pay for a coin with their sticker.

[Mozin]

I am working on my box of twenty coins with CAC Gold stickers.

[mumu]

 

Please cite a single example where someone was called a moreon (misspelled in order not to have it censored), or even something similar, for not "understanding how great CAC is". If you want to make a point, why not do so without such exaggerations?

 

It is possible to call someone a moreon without using the word moreon.

 

Mumu, the greatness of CAC has nothing to do with what someone is willing to pay for a coin with their sticker.

 

There are always 2 ways to look at things, the way there are in ideals and the way they are in reality. The verdict is out IMO but I predict that unless it evolves as I have detailed before, I think stickers will be in the future detrimental to the hobby.

 

We cant build castles and cathedrals the way we used to. The best best I can do in metaphors right now but thats what this will do to the hobby as the older guys die off and the new uneducated collectors take their place. It will be all about invesments.

[MarkFeld]

 

Please cite a single example where someone was called a moreon (misspelled in order not to have it censored), or even something similar, for not "understanding how great CAC is". If you want to make a point, why not do so without such exaggerations?

 

It is possible to call someone a moreon without using the word moreon.

 

 

I agree. And that is why I included "or even something similar". I don't think anyone here has even remotely approached calling someone a "insufficiently_thoughtful_person" on the subject of CAC.

[MJ]

I'm not certain how much the gold sticker played a part in the price of the PCGS certified coin, though I would imagine that it no doubt helped the price go higher. However, the PCGS coin is in an older holder and appears to have significantly more meat on it than the NGC coin, which happens to be in a newer holder. Those factors, in addition to the fact that the NGC coin was sold at the absolutely dead Pittsburgh ANA last year, could make the PCGS coin go for a higher price. Therefore, you have at least four factors (PCGS vs. NGC; old holder vs. new holder; 2012 Summer FUN vs. 2011 Pittsburgh ANA; and a coin with significantly more meat and luster in the PCGS holder) in addition to the CAC gold sticker that might have caused the higher price.

 

Stop making sense. MJ

[AnkurJ]

I'm not certain how much the gold sticker played a part in the price of the PCGS certified coin, though I would imagine that it no doubt helped the price go higher. However, the PCGS coin is in an older holder and appears to have significantly more meat on it than the NGC coin, which happens to be in a newer holder. Those factors, in addition to the fact that the NGC coin was sold at the absolutely dead Pittsburgh ANA last year, could make the PCGS coin go for a higher price. Therefore, you have at least four factors (PCGS vs. NGC; old holder vs. new holder; 2012 Summer FUN vs. 2011 Pittsburgh ANA; and a coin with significantly more meat and luster in the PCGS holder) in addition to the CAC gold sticker that might have caused the higher price.

 

With the majority of bids being online, I doubt convention attendance makes any difference. For the most part I've seen very small crowds at the live auction.

[MarkFeld]

I'm not certain how much the gold sticker played a part in the price of the PCGS certified coin, though I would imagine that it no doubt helped the price go higher. However, the PCGS coin is in an older holder and appears to have significantly more meat on it than the NGC coin, which happens to be in a newer holder. Those factors, in addition to the fact that the NGC coin was sold at the absolutely dead Pittsburgh ANA last year, could make the PCGS coin go for a higher price. Therefore, you have at least four factors (PCGS vs. NGC; old holder vs. new holder; 2012 Summer FUN vs. 2011 Pittsburgh ANA; and a coin with significantly more meat and luster in the PCGS holder) in addition to the CAC gold sticker that might have caused the higher price.

 

With the majority of bids being online, I doubt convention attendance makes any difference. For the most part I've seen very small crowds at the live auction.

 

The number of bidders at the auction is largely irrelevant. Many collectors and dealers view the lots in hand, and then either bid on-line or through an agent.

[BillJones]

I'm not certain how much the gold sticker played a part in the price of the PCGS certified coin, though I would imagine that it no doubt helped the price go higher. However, the PCGS coin is in an older holder and appears to have significantly more meat on it than the NGC coin, which happens to be in a newer holder. Those factors, in addition to the fact that the NGC coin was sold at the absolutely dead Pittsburgh ANA last year, could make the PCGS coin go for a higher price. Therefore, you have at least four factors (PCGS vs. NGC; old holder vs. new holder; 2012 Summer FUN vs. 2011 Pittsburgh ANA; and a coin with significantly more meat and luster in the PCGS holder) in addition to the CAC gold sticker that might have caused the higher price.

 

With the majority of bids being online, I doubt convention attendance makes any difference. For the most part I've seen very small crowds at the live auction.

 

The number of bidders at the auction is largely irrelevant. Many collectors and dealers view the lots in hand, and then either bid on-line or through an agent.

 

I go to the convention, look at the coins, and quite often bid on-line despite the fact that I will be at the auction. For expensive material I set a price that I'm willing to pay and bid on-line because I don't want to be on the wrong side of a bid back and forth. For example if I think an item is worth $50,000, I'll bid the $50,000. The reason is if the bid is $50,000 on the floor and it's not my bid, I'll have bid at least $52,500 (cut bid) or $55,000.

 

I won a $50,000 coin because my Internet bid was equal to the floor bid. The floor bidder was an agent bidding on behalf of a client, and could go no further, so I got the coin. If I had not made that Internet bid, I would have had to have paid more. Just because the auction room looks empty does not mean that it is empty and the people at the convention are not "there."

[erickso1]

I'm not certain how much the gold sticker played a part in the price of the PCGS certified coin, though I would imagine that it no doubt helped the price go higher. However, the PCGS coin is in an older holder and appears to have significantly more meat on it than the NGC coin, which happens to be in a newer holder. Those factors, in addition to the fact that the NGC coin was sold at the absolutely dead Pittsburgh ANA last year, could make the PCGS coin go for a higher price. Therefore, you have at least four factors (PCGS vs. NGC; old holder vs. new holder; 2012 Summer FUN vs. 2011 Pittsburgh ANA; and a coin with significantly more meat and luster in the PCGS holder) in addition to the CAC gold sticker that might have caused the higher price.

 

Stop making sense. MJ

 

I think the statistical term used in this situation might be "correlation without causality". While the sticker may have helped the overall price, if viewed in isolation, it's impact, while correlated to the outcome, may not actually explain the outcome to any statistically significant degree.

[DirtyGoldMan]

I asked Doug Winter to view the coin for me. He graded it as a 53-55. PCGS price guide is $14,500 in 55. Suddenly, it is not as crazy.

[AnkurJ]

It is still crazy. Even if the coin is an AU53/55.

Here's an AU53CAC that went for a hair over $10k a few months ago:

 

http://stacksbowers.com/Auctions/AuctionLot.aspx?LotID=323597

 

Id rather take that coin and keep the extra $5k in my pocket.

[MarkFeld]

It is still crazy. Even if the coin is an AU53/55.

Here's an AU53CAC that went for a hair over $10k a few months ago:

 

http://stacksbowers.com/Auctions/AuctionLot.aspx?LotID=323597

 

Id rather take that coin and keep the extra $5k in my pocket.

 

The fact that you would rather have $5,000 and the lower priced coin, doesn't even begin to make the higher price of the other coin "crazy".

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

It is still crazy. Even if the coin is an AU53/55.

Here's an AU53CAC that went for a hair over $10k a few months ago:

 

http://stacksbowers.com/Auctions/AuctionLot.aspx?LotID=323597

 

Id rather take that coin and keep the extra $5k in my pocket.

 

The fact that you would rather have $5,000 and the lower priced coin, doesn't even begin to make the higher price of the other coin "crazy".

 

Is this sort of like bidding 2.5X Sheet for a coin?

 

I assume crazy is a personal interpretation.

 

Take my wife as an example........never mind.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

[DirtyGoldMan]

It is still crazy. Even if the coin is an AU53/55.

Here's an AU53CAC that went for a hair over $10k a few months ago:

 

http://stacksbowers.com/Auctions/AuctionLot.aspx?LotID=323597

 

Id rather take that coin and keep the extra $5k in my pocket.

So if someone does not grade and value coins the way you do, it's crazy. Got it.