When a knowledgeable collector or dealer is buying from the public…

[RWB]

…what are the basic ethical values that come into play?

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

All of them...basic, intermediate and advanced ethical practice.

 

Added for consideration: The same is required when the public is selling to the collector or dealer.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

[cpm9ball]

It really depends on the forum where you ask this question. I won't mention where, but there are some people who believe it is okay to cheat little 90 year-old grannies who have been left with their deceased husband's collection.

 

Chris

[James_OldeTowne]

When a knowledgeable collector or dealer is buying from the public… …what are the basic ethical values that come into play?

Here's how I look at it. "Honesty" is what you practice when everyone is watching you. "Ethics" comes into play when nobody is.

[DaveG]

Other than the really basic things (like not knowingly buying or selling counterfeit or stolen items or totally misrepresenting items), there's such a wide "playing field" that I'm sure we could discuss this topic until the cows come home and that poor horse has been beaten to death 15 more times and not make everyone (or anyone) happy.

[ldhair]

When a knowledgeable collector or dealer is buying from the public… …what are the basic ethical values that come into play?

Here's how I look at it. "Honesty" is what you practice when everyone is watching you. "Ethics" comes into play when nobody is.

I like that.

[leeg]

I'm with James and Larry.

 

[MarkFeld]

…what are the basic ethical values that come into play?

 

Treat others in such a way, that a knowledgeable and reasonable group of people would deem it "fair" and "honest".

[DaveG]

Hey, Mark:

 

May we now argue about the size of a profit margin that is "fair" and "honest"?

 

 

[$ilverHawk]

Good definition. Doesn't it really come down to the "Golden Rule". The basic question is does the knowledgeable collector/dealer use their knowledge to take advantage of the public or inform and assist the public. In other words, offer a fair, market based deal.

 

Carl

[MarkFeld]

Hey, Mark:

 

May we now argue about the size of a profit margin that is "fair" and "honest"?

 

 

 

Dave, go for it!

[DaveG]

Mark,

 

Here's a scenario:

 

Let's say you're a dealer who is also a highly skilled grader.

 

You're manning your table at a coin show and a guy you never met before is showing around a raw coin that, if slabbed at the grade he thinks it is, could fetch around $50,000 in a good auction. (Let's say the next good auction opportunity is three months away.)

 

You examine the coin and you agree that the coin should slab at the advertised grade and that the coin is otherwise problem free and attractive.

 

However, no other dealer at the show has made the owner a hard cash offer.

 

You pull out your checkbook and say: "You could consign the coin to auction in three months or I'll write you a check for $X right now."

 

Version A: you have a client who you expect will buy the coin at $50,000.

 

Version B: you don't have a client for the coin, but you're willing to either carry the coin in inventory (let's say there are some major coin shows coming up) or consign to the auction in three months.

 

How much is X under Version A? How much is X under Version B?

 

(Variables for the class to consider: You're tying up capital until you sell the coin. You have to get the coin slabbed; you may want to send the coin to CAC - consider the time and expense to get the coin slabbed or perhaps re-slabbed.)

 

edited to add: Other items for the class to consider: By buying the coin today instead of having the owner consign to auction in three months, the seller should consider the time value of money. Also, you're willing to absorb grading fees and the time involved. Also, you have 20 years experience and the skills to be a highly skilled grader. Finally, no other dealer at the show has made a cash offer; not even the other skilled graders or "major" dealers.

[RWB]

Why not simplify --- [removed...too cynical]

[MarkFeld]

Mark,

 

Here's a scenario:

 

Let's say you're a dealer who is also a highly skilled grader.

 

You're manning your table at a coin show and a guy you never met before is showing around a raw coin that, if slabbed at the grade he thinks it is, could fetch around $50,000 in a good auction. (Let's say the next good auction opportunity is three months away.)

 

You examine the coin and you agree that the coin should slab at the advertised grade and that the coin is otherwise problem free and attractive.

 

However, no other dealer at the show has made the owner a hard cash offer.

 

You pull out your checkbook and say: "You could consign the coin to auction in three months or I'll write you a check for $X right now."

 

Version A: you have a client who you expect will buy the coin at $50,000.

 

Version B: you don't have a client for the coin, but you're willing to either carry the coin in inventory (let's say there are some major coin shows coming up) or consign to the auction in three months.

 

How much is X under Version A? How much is X under Version B?

 

(Variables for the class to consider: You're tying up capital until you sell the coin. You have to get the coin slabbed; you may want to send the coin to CAC - consider the time and expense to get the coin slabbed or perhaps re-slabbed.)

 

edited to add: Other items for the class to consider: By buying the coin today instead of having the owner consign to auction in three months, the seller should consider the time value of money. Also, you're willing to absorb grading fees and the time involved. Also, you have 20 years experience and the skills to be a highly skilled grader. Finally, no other dealer at the show has made a cash offer; not even the other skilled graders or "major" dealers.

 

Dave, I hope you don't consider this to be cheating, but this is how I would try to handle such a situation.....

 

I would encourage the coin's owner to allow me to submit it for grading on his behalf. And if he was in need of quick cash I would provide a cash advance. Such an arrangement would reduce (though not completely eliminate) the odds of my buying the coin for way too little or way too much.

[coinman1794]

Dido, Mark. In a market where (unfortunately) the value is determined by a grading service, it pays to have the coin certified before a hard offer is made.

 

[DaveG]

Mark,

 

I don't consider your answer "cheating".

 

I think perhaps you focused on "who is this guy and what is his purpose in showing this coin around."

[Walkerfan]

I think that his answer was a great and honest answer regarding the raw coin. If I were in his shoes; I'd do the same thing.

 

I would never pay top dollar for a raw coin, until I was sure that it would make it into that slab. No matter how good you are or how good the coin is----it still would be a financial risk until that coin made it into that slab.

 

Remember that this is a subjective hobby. As we've seen from previous posts there are coins that never should have wound up in slabs while others that should've and eventually did. We have no control over what another TPG will think or say or do. With that much money involved it would be crazy to do it another way.

[RWB]

...there are coins that never should have wound up in slabs.

 

They have windup slabs now? Why? Is that to power the tiny built-in display light?

 

(Copyright idea: add LEDs inside the slab to allow viewing of the coin in poor ambient light conditions or to enhance a display. Power provided from photocells or a tiny plutonium radioisotope thermoelectric generator generator.)