What does Legend do with coins they acquire that don't CAC-sticker?

[stman]

Also, with a coin stickered by CAC, you know it is original and has not been messed with.

 

Good to know.

[MarkFeld]

Also, with a coin stickered by CAC, you know it is original and has not been messed with.

 

Good to know.

 

I know that you know better than that. : )

 

And in response to the poster you quoted.....

 

The reality is more accurately stated as something to the effect that:

 

Also, with a coin stickered by CAC, there is a very good chance it has not been messed with to the extent that it's sub-par and/or not market acceptable.

 

In other words, a great many coins have been "messed with" to various extents. And many of those reside in PCGS and NGC holders which receive stickers. Dipped coins is but one such (large) group of which I speak.

[stman]

Mr. Feld. Your description sounds more down to earth. I quoted Legend Lady from her market report.

[MarkFeld]

Mr. Feld. Your description sounds more down to earth. I quoted Legend Lady from her market report.

 

Thank you. And obviously, even as a CAC supporter, I must disagree with that quote.

[stman]

Seriously, these days I'm kinda neutral on CAC. I will point out once in a while when something stated is a bit optimistic. Although I seem to usually be one of the only ones to do so. Took me quite a while to be able to log in here and remember my information. I'll be back!!!!

[AnkurJ]

Well said RYK!

[BillJones]

Also, with a coin stickered by CAC, you know it is original and has not been messed with.

 

Good to know.

 

If you believe that dipped coins are "original" then this statement is true. I have seen CAC approved coins that were dipped, and that's okay. When it is done appropriately and properly dipping can be a form of restoration and preservation. I've purchased many coins that have been dipped over my time as a dealer and a collector. But you can't call dipped coins "original."

[BillJones]

Whoa! I do not see where Legend claims that the CAC, or anyone else in coins, is infallible.

 

I didn't copy your entire quote, but I'd like you to try something. Make a negative comment about CAC, even a mild one, in a string where Trade Dollar Nut is posting and see what reaction you get. TDN is a major investor in Legend. They have got a lot of their business model based around CAC. If he views you as a credible threat to the image they wish to instill among their customers and potential customers about CAC, you will get a strong reaction. I know, because I’ve been there and done that.

 

Of course the average CAC coin is better than average. That is the reason that their service exists. The trouble is it’s like saying that PCGS is slightly more conservative, at least in some areas than NGC. That’s okay for generalities, but it is not something you can take to the bank when you are selecting coins. Every coin is a special case. CAC will not prevent you making a mistake any more than buying nothing but PCGS coins will prevent you from making a mistake. There is no substitute for knowledge unless you can find an expert dealer whom you trust implicitly.

[MarkFeld]

Whoa! I do not see where Legend claims that the CAC, or anyone else in coins, is infallible.

 

I didn't copy your entire quote, but I'd like you to try something. Make a negative comment about CAC, even a mild one, in a string where Trade Dollar Nut is posting and see what reaction you get. TDN is a major investor in Legend. They have got a lot of their business model based around CAC. If he views you as a credible threat to the image they wish to instill among their customers and potential customers about CAC, you will get a strong reaction. I know, because I’ve been there and done that.

 

Of course the average CAC coin is better than average. That is the reason that their service exists. The trouble is it’s like saying that PCGS is slightly more conservative, at least in some areas than NGC. That’s okay for generalities, but it is not something you can take to the bank when you are selecting coins. Every coin is a special case. CAC will not prevent you making a mistake any more than buying nothing but PCGS coins will prevent you from making a mistake. There is no substitute for knowledge unless you can find an expert dealer whom you trust implicitly.

 

Bill, none of what you just posted really has anything to do with your having stated that Legend claims CAC is "infallible". And, while I believe that Laura tends to be overly enamored with CAC, I don't think she has claimed that they are infallible.

[BillJones]

Whoa! I do not see where Legend claims that the CAC, or anyone else in coins, is infallible.

 

I didn't copy your entire quote, but I'd like you to try something. Make a negative comment about CAC, even a mild one, in a string where Trade Dollar Nut is posting and see what reaction you get. TDN is a major investor in Legend. They have got a lot of their business model based around CAC. If he views you as a credible threat to the image they wish to instill among their customers and potential customers about CAC, you will get a strong reaction. I know, because I’ve been there and done that.

 

Of course the average CAC coin is better than average. That is the reason that their service exists. The trouble is it’s like saying that PCGS is slightly more conservative, at least in some areas than NGC. That’s okay for generalities, but it is not something you can take to the bank when you are selecting coins. Every coin is a special case. CAC will not prevent you making a mistake any more than buying nothing but PCGS coins will prevent you from making a mistake. There is no substitute for knowledge unless you can find an expert dealer whom you trust implicitly.

 

Bill, none of what you just posted really has anything to do with your having stated that Legend claims CAC is "infallible". And, while I believe that Laura tends to be overly enamored with CAC, I don't think she has claimed that they are infallible.

 

The main complaint I've read from her about CAC concerns the times when she didn't get a CAC sticker when she thought she should have gotten one. As for my comments about TDN's reactions to my comments, I've taken the pounding so I know.

 

And to be frank, Mark, CAC is an important part of your business plan too. Other dealers I know, however, have become a bit disillusioned with CAC.

 

[bluel-migration]

Coin grading is an inconsistent business.

[MarkFeld]

Whoa! I do not see where Legend claims that the CAC, or anyone else in coins, is infallible.

 

I didn't copy your entire quote, but I'd like you to try something. Make a negative comment about CAC, even a mild one, in a string where Trade Dollar Nut is posting and see what reaction you get. TDN is a major investor in Legend. They have got a lot of their business model based around CAC. If he views you as a credible threat to the image they wish to instill among their customers and potential customers about CAC, you will get a strong reaction. I know, because I’ve been there and done that.

 

Of course the average CAC coin is better than average. That is the reason that their service exists. The trouble is it’s like saying that PCGS is slightly more conservative, at least in some areas than NGC. That’s okay for generalities, but it is not something you can take to the bank when you are selecting coins. Every coin is a special case. CAC will not prevent you making a mistake any more than buying nothing but PCGS coins will prevent you from making a mistake. There is no substitute for knowledge unless you can find an expert dealer whom you trust implicitly.

 

Bill, none of what you just posted really has anything to do with your having stated that Legend claims CAC is "infallible". And, while I believe that Laura tends to be overly enamored with CAC, I don't think she has claimed that they are infallible.

 

The main complaint I've read from her about CAC concerns the times when she didn't get a CAC sticker when she thought she should have gotten one. As for my comments about TDN's reactions to my comments, I've taken the pounding so I know.

 

And to be frank, Mark, CAC is an important part of your business plan too. Other dealers I know, however, have become a bit disillusioned with CAC.

 

Again, Bill, none of that really has anything to do with your "infallible" comment - perhaps you meant to quote something else, to which you wanted to respond?

 

And if Laura complains about not getting stickers from CAC when she thinks she should have gotten them, that sure doesn't jive with your saying she claims they are infallible.

 

I am a small submitter to CAC - I have averaged roughly 15 coins per month, thus far this year. And when I like a coin and feel it is priced reasonably, I am happy to buy it, with or without a CAC sticker. Currently, approximately 40% of my inventory is non-CAC.

 

That said, I am, indeed, a supporter of CAC. It offers a highly expert second opinion at a bargain price. And anyone can benefit from that, some more than others and some more frequently than others.

[mumu]

MJ- I have my reasons... Please don't get me a confused with a with your average Laura hater because I'm not and don't understand why people always say what they do about her. Maybe they are jealous. But to find a coin in her inventory that can upgrade seems rather far fetched to me.

 

No judgements an no worries here and I'm not getting you confused and I'm not even defending her. I'm just stating facts from my personal experiences. That's all I have to work from. Coins that my circle of trust have purchased from her over time have often enough upgraded. That is where I'm coming from.

 

Think about it for a second.

 

1) She gets a coin back from PCGS and it'd comes back 66+ three times( She will about it her description and calls it a 66.9) and throws it on the Legend site and you and I buy it at a 66+ level.

then

 

2) we send in in with a with a bunch of other great looking coins from our set/collection a couple few years down the line. You don't think the chances of this making a 67 exists? On any given day.

 

The fact remains she deals in top tier coins. Great looking coins can be a 66 one day and a 67 on another. Not everything is necessarily maxed out. Anyways, that is NEVER my objective when buying a coin. I by the coin that I'm comfortable with in it's present clothing.

 

I would take the approach on buying coins from Legend/Feld/Pinnacle/Bill Shamhart etc rather then gambling on coins off of EBAY or TeleTrade over the long haul. But that's just me. Others will not share my view and I don't expect them to. I'm very comfortable in my strategy.

 

MJ

 

Thats where the theory comes apart.

[BillJones]

Whoa! I do not see where Legend claims that the CAC, or anyone else in coins, is infallible.

 

I didn't copy your entire quote, but I'd like you to try something. Make a negative comment about CAC, even a mild one, in a string where Trade Dollar Nut is posting and see what reaction you get. TDN is a major investor in Legend. They have got a lot of their business model based around CAC. If he views you as a credible threat to the image they wish to instill among their customers and potential customers about CAC, you will get a strong reaction. I know, because I’ve been there and done that.

 

Of course the average CAC coin is better than average. That is the reason that their service exists. The trouble is it’s like saying that PCGS is slightly more conservative, at least in some areas than NGC. That’s okay for generalities, but it is not something you can take to the bank when you are selecting coins. Every coin is a special case. CAC will not prevent you making a mistake any more than buying nothing but PCGS coins will prevent you from making a mistake. There is no substitute for knowledge unless you can find an expert dealer whom you trust implicitly.

 

Bill, none of what you just posted really has anything to do with your having stated that Legend claims CAC is "infallible". And, while I believe that Laura tends to be overly enamored with CAC, I don't think she has claimed that they are infallible.

 

The main complaint I've read from her about CAC concerns the times when she didn't get a CAC sticker when she thought she should have gotten one. As for my comments about TDN's reactions to my comments, I've taken the pounding so I know.

 

And to be frank, Mark, CAC is an important part of your business plan too. Other dealers I know, however, have become a bit disillusioned with CAC.

 

Again, Bill, none of that really has anything to do with your "infallible" comment - perhaps you meant to quote something else, to which you wanted to respond?

 

And if Laura complains about not getting stickers from CAC when she thinks she should have gotten them, that sure doesn't jive with your saying she claims they are infallible.

 

I am a small submitter to CAC - I have averaged roughly 15 coins per month, thus far this year. And when I like a coin and feel it is priced reasonably, I am happy to buy it, with or without a CAC sticker. Currently, approximately 40% of my inventory is non-CAC.

 

That said, I am, indeed, a supporter of CAC. It offers a highly expert second opinion at a bargain price. And anyone can benefit from that, some more than others and some more frequently than others.

 

Okay, you don't like the word "infallible.” Here’s the context for it. To many collectors ATS and here think that the following equation applies:

 

PCGS slab + CAC sticker = Buy with perfect confidence.

 

If anyone questions that logic they are uninformed, anti CAC or just stubborn because they refuse to accept “the truth.” I’m as much against the mind set that a CAC approved PCGS graded coin is absolutely “perfect” or “PQ” for the grade simply because it has those two labels as the mindset as it is “impossible” to over pay for a top POP modern coin or a top POP classic coin. Any expert dealer or collector who is willing to express a candid opinion knows that CAC has made some mistakes, and you can over pay for anything.

 

To those with the mind set that they can make their purchases based upon those two brand loyalties alone has this mindset:

 

PCGS slab + CAC sticker = “Infallible”

 

On the “Hey buddy can you spare a grade?” board you were allover me about that 1807 dime. The coin has the sharpness of an AU with a PCGS VF-30 grade and green CAC sticker. What is going on with that? It was darned obvious that PCGS had net graded the coin severely, and that was one thing the grading services said that they were going avoid. Yet PCGS did it for a while during the green label period because I have seen several examples of it.

 

On that coin I saw in the 10 o’clock area marks that were not consistent with the die deterioration or die clashes that are found on many 1807 dimes; it was post strike damage. The PCGS graders must have seen it too because they down graded the coin by 20 points.

 

I don’t think that severely net graded coins are CAC worthy because selling them at the grade on holder is not that easy. Many collectors don’t like severely net graded coins. They prefer coins in “no problem” grades. For that reason I expressed doubts about the piece for the collector who started the string. He’s free to buy what he wants, but I won’t want my money in that coin, and that was my recommendation. Yet you say I don’t know what I’m talking about because the picture is too small.

 

So that disqualifies me from expressing my opinion based on years of experience. I can't help but think that this has more to do with defending CAC than getting at the truth.

[MarkFeld]

Whoa! I do not see where Legend claims that the CAC, or anyone else in coins, is infallible.

 

I didn't copy your entire quote, but I'd like you to try something. Make a negative comment about CAC, even a mild one, in a string where Trade Dollar Nut is posting and see what reaction you get. TDN is a major investor in Legend. They have got a lot of their business model based around CAC. If he views you as a credible threat to the image they wish to instill among their customers and potential customers about CAC, you will get a strong reaction. I know, because I’ve been there and done that.

 

Of course the average CAC coin is better than average. That is the reason that their service exists. The trouble is it’s like saying that PCGS is slightly more conservative, at least in some areas than NGC. That’s okay for generalities, but it is not something you can take to the bank when you are selecting coins. Every coin is a special case. CAC will not prevent you making a mistake any more than buying nothing but PCGS coins will prevent you from making a mistake. There is no substitute for knowledge unless you can find an expert dealer whom you trust implicitly.

 

Bill, none of what you just posted really has anything to do with your having stated that Legend claims CAC is "infallible". And, while I believe that Laura tends to be overly enamored with CAC, I don't think she has claimed that they are infallible.

 

The main complaint I've read from her about CAC concerns the times when she didn't get a CAC sticker when she thought she should have gotten one. As for my comments about TDN's reactions to my comments, I've taken the pounding so I know.

 

And to be frank, Mark, CAC is an important part of your business plan too. Other dealers I know, however, have become a bit disillusioned with CAC.

 

Again, Bill, none of that really has anything to do with your "infallible" comment - perhaps you meant to quote something else, to which you wanted to respond?

 

And if Laura complains about not getting stickers from CAC when she thinks she should have gotten them, that sure doesn't jive with your saying she claims they are infallible.

 

I am a small submitter to CAC - I have averaged roughly 15 coins per month, thus far this year. And when I like a coin and feel it is priced reasonably, I am happy to buy it, with or without a CAC sticker. Currently, approximately 40% of my inventory is non-CAC.

 

That said, I am, indeed, a supporter of CAC. It offers a highly expert second opinion at a bargain price. And anyone can benefit from that, some more than others and some more frequently than others.

 

.......On the “Hey buddy can you spare a grade?” board you were allover me about that 1807 dime. The coin has the sharpness of an AU with a PCGS VF-30 grade and green CAC sticker. What is going on with that? It was darned obvious that PCGS had net graded the coin severely, and that was one thing the grading services said that they were going avoid. Yet PCGS did it for a while during the green label period because I have seen several examples of it.

 

On that coin I saw in the 10 o’clock area marks that were not consistent with the die deterioration or die clashes that are found on many 1807 dimes; it was post strike damage. The PCGS graders must have seen it too because they down graded the coin by 20 points.

 

I don’t think that severely net graded coins are CAC worthy because selling them at the grade on holder is not that easy. Many collectors don’t like severely net graded coins. They prefer coins in “no problem” grades. For that reason I expressed doubts about the piece for the collector who started the string. He’s free to buy what he wants, but I won’t want my money in that coin, and that was my recommendation. Yet you say I don’t know what I’m talking about because the picture is too small.

 

So that disqualifies me from expressing my opinion based on years of experience. I can't help but think that this has more to do with defending CAC than getting at the truth.

 

You must have a giant chip on your shoulder. You grossly misstated and distorted my comments in that thread.

 

Contrary to your accusation, I wasn't all over you (or anyone else) in that thread. I merely wrote:

" To those of you criticizing the coin, PCGS and CAC, what is wrong with withholding judgment, rather than making your proclamations, based solely on an image?"

 

Nor did I say that the picture was too small..

 

And I didn't say that you didn't know what you were talking about.

 

I didn't defend CAC either. I also wrote:

"I'll go with AU55. And if there is something wrong enough with the coin that warrants it being net graded down to XF, it shouldn't be graded at all. Sorry, but XF would be a silly grade for that coin."

 

Here is a link to that thread

 

You should read it. And if you don't care to apologize for mischaracterizing what I wrote, I hope you will at least not do that again in the future. You seem to have a tendency to do that, in order to make your points with other posters.

 

[MJ]

MJ- I have my reasons... Please don't get me a confused with a with your average Laura hater because I'm not and don't understand why people always say what they do about her. Maybe they are jealous. But to find a coin in her inventory that can upgrade seems rather far fetched to me.

 

No judgements an no worries here and I'm not getting you confused and I'm not even defending her. I'm just stating facts from my personal experiences. That's all I have to work from. Coins that my circle of trust have purchased from her over time have often enough upgraded. That is where I'm coming from.

 

Think about it for a second.

 

1) She gets a coin back from PCGS and it'd comes back 66+ three times( She will about it her description and calls it a 66.9) and throws it on the Legend site and you and I buy it at a 66+ level.

then

 

2) we send in in with a with a bunch of other great looking coins from our set/collection a couple few years down the line. You don't think the chances of this making a 67 exists? On any given day.

 

The fact remains she deals in top tier coins. Great looking coins can be a 66 one day and a 67 on another. Not everything is necessarily maxed out. Anyways, that is NEVER my objective when buying a coin. I by the coin that I'm comfortable with in it's present clothing.

 

I would take the approach on buying coins from Legend/Feld/Pinnacle/Bill Shamhart etc rather then gambling on coins off of EBAY or TeleTrade over the long haul. But that's just me. Others will not share my view and I don't expect them to. I'm very comfortable in my strategy.

 

MJ

 

Thats where the theory comes apart.

 

Paying up for great coins is a great theory imo if that is what you are driving at. I actually find Legend's prices reasonable over the long run in my area of collecting. Much more so them buying from Ebay or Teletrade on a hunch and a prayer. Judgement Day is usually when you go to sell if you are keeping score that way.......Have you ever done a deal with Legend? If so what where the results? MJ

[MarkFeld]

Whoa! I do not see where Legend claims that the CAC, or anyone else in coins, is infallible.

 

I didn't copy your entire quote, but I'd like you to try something. Make a negative comment about CAC, even a mild one, in a string where Trade Dollar Nut is posting and see what reaction you get. TDN is a major investor in Legend. They have got a lot of their business model based around CAC. If he views you as a credible threat to the image they wish to instill among their customers and potential customers about CAC, you will get a strong reaction. I know, because I’ve been there and done that.

 

Of course the average CAC coin is better than average. That is the reason that their service exists. The trouble is it’s like saying that PCGS is slightly more conservative, at least in some areas than NGC. That’s okay for generalities, but it is not something you can take to the bank when you are selecting coins. Every coin is a special case. CAC will not prevent you making a mistake any more than buying nothing but PCGS coins will prevent you from making a mistake. There is no substitute for knowledge unless you can find an expert dealer whom you trust implicitly.

 

Bill, none of what you just posted really has anything to do with your having stated that Legend claims CAC is "infallible". And, while I believe that Laura tends to be overly enamored with CAC, I don't think she has claimed that they are infallible.

 

The main complaint I've read from her about CAC concerns the times when she didn't get a CAC sticker when she thought she should have gotten one. As for my comments about TDN's reactions to my comments, I've taken the pounding so I know.

 

And to be frank, Mark, CAC is an important part of your business plan too. Other dealers I know, however, have become a bit disillusioned with CAC.

 

Again, Bill, none of that really has anything to do with your "infallible" comment - perhaps you meant to quote something else, to which you wanted to respond?

 

And if Laura complains about not getting stickers from CAC when she thinks she should have gotten them, that sure doesn't jive with your saying she claims they are infallible.

 

I am a small submitter to CAC - I have averaged roughly 15 coins per month, thus far this year. And when I like a coin and feel it is priced reasonably, I am happy to buy it, with or without a CAC sticker. Currently, approximately 40% of my inventory is non-CAC.

 

That said, I am, indeed, a supporter of CAC. It offers a highly expert second opinion at a bargain price. And anyone can benefit from that, some more than others and some more frequently than others.

 

.......On the “Hey buddy can you spare a grade?” board you were allover me about that 1807 dime. The coin has the sharpness of an AU with a PCGS VF-30 grade and green CAC sticker. What is going on with that? It was darned obvious that PCGS had net graded the coin severely, and that was one thing the grading services said that they were going avoid. Yet PCGS did it for a while during the green label period because I have seen several examples of it.

 

On that coin I saw in the 10 o’clock area marks that were not consistent with the die deterioration or die clashes that are found on many 1807 dimes; it was post strike damage. The PCGS graders must have seen it too because they down graded the coin by 20 points.

 

I don’t think that severely net graded coins are CAC worthy because selling them at the grade on holder is not that easy. Many collectors don’t like severely net graded coins. They prefer coins in “no problem” grades. For that reason I expressed doubts about the piece for the collector who started the string. He’s free to buy what he wants, but I won’t want my money in that coin, and that was my recommendation. Yet you say I don’t know what I’m talking about because the picture is too small.

 

So that disqualifies me from expressing my opinion based on years of experience. I can't help but think that this has more to do with defending CAC than getting at the truth.

 

You must have a giant chip on your shoulder. You grossly misstated and distorted my comments in that thread.

 

Contrary to your accusation, I wasn't all over you (or anyone else) in that thread. I merely wrote:

" To those of you criticizing the coin, PCGS and CAC, what is wrong with withholding judgment, rather than making your proclamations, based solely on an image?"

 

Nor did I say that the picture was too small..

 

And I didn't say that you didn't know what you were talking about.

 

I didn't defend CAC either. I also wrote:

"I'll go with AU55. And if there is something wrong enough with the coin that warrants it being net graded down to XF, it shouldn't be graded at all. Sorry, but XF would be a silly grade for that coin."

 

Here is a link to that thread

 

You should read it. And if you don't care to apologize for mischaracterizing what I wrote, I hope you will at least not do that again in the future. You seem to have a tendency to do that, in order to make your points with other posters.

 

No comment, Bill?

[BillJones]

No comment, Bill?  

 

PM sent.

[rons]

In answering the OP I have purchased non CAC'ed coins directly from them as a result of an email they sent out. I have been pleased with their look and price even without the bean.