What does Legend do with coins they acquire that don't CAC-sticker?

[bluel-migration]

Since Legend's big OM is that they only sell CAC-approved PCGS coins, I'm curious what they do with the ones they obtain that don't pass the sticker check. I know from Laura's blog posts that they do purchase coins that aren't stickered by CAC yet, and unless they use their part-owner powers, it's almost a certainty that not everything they buy gets stickered. Do they have a secret Legend-embarrassment ebay store or do they just dump them onto another dealer?

[MarkFeld]

I have seen Legend offer non-CAC coins on their website. They also sell them to other dealers, and I would guess that they sell via auction, as well.

[bluel-migration]

Oh, well then... I hadn't seen any on their site before. If they do that then I guess my post is kinda pointless. Thanks!

[jerseycat10]

bluel, it was a good question, one that I had asked myself once or twice. I still don't understand why a dealer would focus on CAC only coins, and in effect, limiting their marketplace, and subsequently, their market.

[bochiman]

I believe I have heard they are back on ebay and non-CAC will be sold there.

Could be other venues as well, obviously, but ebay seems an easy place to do it.

[dimefreak]

Before they got back on Ebay they were donating them to charity.

[bluel-migration]

Before they got back on Ebay they were donating them to charity.

I'll make my own charity real quick... be right back.

[RWB]

They are put in the grinder and made into "widgets." Remember, quality and value are objective and there is only one arbiter.

[AnkurJ]

They are sold at wholesale prices.

[mkman123]

They prob get rid of it real fast. They are primarily pcgs+ cac as well.

[FishyOne]

Dreck? They dump it asap!

[TomB]

These non-CAC coins might also be offered to dealers without making a fuss about it on their site.

[MJ]

These non-CAC coins might also be offered to dealers without making a fuss about it on their site.

 

They also do e-mail blasts from time to time on coins that did not sticker and LS is usually full of vim and vigor on how they should have "beaned". Even JA is not immune to her wrath

 

I can only remember one coin ever listed on their site in the past 2 or 3 years that wasn't stickered. I have also never seen a gold sticker on their site. If so, I missed it.

 

MJ

[bochiman]

These non-CAC coins might also be offered to dealers without making a fuss about it on their site.

 

They also do e-mail blasts from time to time on coins that did not sticker and LS is usually full of vim and vigor on how they should have "beaned". Even JA is not immune to her wrath

 

I can only remember one coin ever listed on their site in the past 2 or 3 years that wasn't stickered. I have also never seen a gold sticker on their site. If so, I missed it.

 

MJ

 

Gold stickers don't seem to go on dealer sites, that I can see.

I think they may well have a network to sell these outside of their sites.

[dimefreak]

I highly doubt any of Laura's coins would get undergraded.... Think about it

[MJ]

I highly doubt any of Laura's coins would get undergraded.... Think about it

 

why is that? Several, and I mean several people have stated over the years that they have received upgrades on coins purchased from Legend. She also buys coins that end up not stickering.

 

Bochiman- JA/DW list CAC gold stickered coins quite often. Otherwise I agree,

 

MJ

[RWB]

When was the last time you hear a coin dealer say: "Well, it's just an average coin and not especially nice, so I'll only charge you 30% more than retail for it."

[MJ]

When was the last time you hear a coin dealer say: "Well, it's just an average coin and not especially nice, so I'll only charge you 30% more than retail for it."

 

Never.

 

I have only sold five coins ever (that weren't part of trades) and I have made money on every one of them. Two came from Legend. MJ

[AnkurJ]

 

Gold stickers don't seem to go on dealer sites, that I can see.

I think they may well have a network to sell these outside of their sites.

 

You're looking at the wrong sites

I just sold two last night!

[dimefreak]

I highly doubt any of Laura's coins would get undergraded.... Think about it

 

why is that? Several, and I mean several people have stated over the years that they have received upgrades on coins purchased from Legend. She also buys coins that end up not stickering.

 

Bochiman- JA/DW list CAC gold stickered coins quite often. Otherwise I agree,

 

MJ

Over the years as in way back when? When the last time somebody told you that?

[AnkurJ]

I highly doubt any of Laura's coins would get undergraded.... Think about it

 

If she feels they're undergraded, she cracks them out to resubmit. It's written in the description of some of her couns that she tried a few times for a higher grade.

[dimefreak]

I highly doubt any of Laura's coins would get undergraded.... Think about it

 

If she feels they're undergraded, she cracks them out to resubmit. It's written in the description of some of her couns that she tried a few times for a higher grade.

 

Yea thats my point

[MJ]

I highly doubt any of Laura's coins would get undergraded.... Think about it

 

why is that? Several, and I mean several people have stated over the years that they have received upgrades on coins purchased from Legend. She also buys coins that end up not stickering.

 

Bochiman- JA/DW list CAC gold stickered coins quite often. Otherwise I agree,

 

MJ

Over the years as in way back when? When the last time somebody told you that?

 

Recently and often over the past several years. I'm not sure why you find this hard to fathom. MJ

[dimefreak]

MJ- I have my reasons... Please don't get me a confused with a with your average Laura hater because I'm not and don't understand why people always say what they do about her. Maybe they are jealous. But to find a coin in her inventory that can upgrade seems rather far fetched to me.

[MJ]

MJ- I have my reasons... Please don't get me a confused with a with your average Laura hater because I'm not and don't understand why people always say what they do about her. Maybe they are jealous. But to find a coin in her inventory that can upgrade seems rather far fetched to me.

 

No judgements an no worries here and I'm not getting you confused and I'm not even defending her. I'm just stating facts from my personal experiences. That's all I have to work from. Coins that my circle of trust have purchased from her over time have often enough upgraded. That is where I'm coming from.

 

Think about it for a second.

 

1) She gets a coin back from PCGS and it'd comes back 66+ three times( She will about it her description and calls it a 66.9) and throws it on the Legend site and you and I buy it at a 66+ level.

 

then

 

2) we send in in with a with a bunch of other great looking coins from our set/collection a couple few years down the line. You don't think the chances of this making a 67 exists? On any given day.

 

The fact remains she deals in top tier coins. Great looking coins can be a 66 one day and a 67 on another. Not everything is necessarily maxed out. Anyways, that is NEVER my objective when buying a coin. I by the coin that I'm comfortable with in it's present clothing.

 

I would take the approach on buying coins from Legend/Feld/Pinnacle/Bill Shamhart etc rather then gambling on coins off of EBAY or TeleTrade over the long haul. But that's just me. Others will not share my view and I don't expect them to. I'm very comfortable in my strategy.

 

MJ

[TomB]

MJ- I have my reasons... Please don't get me a confused with a with your average Laura hater because I'm not and don't understand why people always say what they do about her. Maybe they are jealous. But to find a coin in her inventory that can upgrade seems rather far fetched to me.

 

I'm not specifically defending Laura about anything here, but the chances of finding upgrades in the inventory of most dealers isn't all that high.

[MJ]

MJ- I have my reasons... Please don't get me a confused with a with your average Laura hater because I'm not and don't understand why people always say what they do about her. Maybe they are jealous. But to find a coin in her inventory that can upgrade seems rather far fetched to me.

 

I'm not specifically defending Laura about anything here, but the chances of finding upgrades in the inventory of most dealers isn't all that high.

 

This is true especially in the now......... most of the time. MJ

 

 

[BillJones]

bluel, it was a good question, one that I had asked myself once or twice. I still don't understand why a dealer would focus on CAC only coins, and in effect, limiting their marketplace, and subsequently, their market.

 

The answer is that they are basing their marketing strategy around CAC and doing all they can to convince their customers that CAC is infallible. Whenever anyone questions CAC or criticizes a CAC approved coin, those dealers circle the wagons and often attack those who have expressed their observations and opinions. They view disagreements with CAC from creditable sources to be detrimental to their marketing program.

 

The CAC concept has some merit because there are certified coins that have problems or are over graded in the holder. On the other hand there is a marketing component to CAC as well. Collectors should consider that and not make purchases based solely upon brand loyalty or faith in infallibility. They need to learn to grade, look at the coin and spot problems for themselves. CAC is an aid to avoiding problems, but it is not a panacea.

 

[BillJones]

Legend has a lot of very nice coins in their inventory, but you are going to pay well for everything you get. When I was looking for $5 Liberty in MS-65, I reviewed when Legend had in stock. The coins were all graded MS-65 with green CAC stickers. None of them "knocked my socks off."

 

I went through the Heritage boxes and found an NGC graded coin that was just a nice as the coins Legend was offering for $1,000 less (about two thirds of the price). It did not have a green football, but it pleased me.

 

I have purchased one coin from Legend, and I'm very pleased with it. It is an 1854-D Three Dollar gold piece in PCGS AU-55 CAC. It's not the sort of thing that they usually carry, and from what they said they had gotten in trade from a customer who was going in a different direction with their collection.

[DirtyGoldMan]

The answer is that they are basing their marketing strategy around CAC and doing all they can to convince their customers that CAC is infallible. Whenever anyone questions CAC or criticizes a CAC approved coin, those dealers circle the wagons and often attack those who have expressed their observations and opinions. They view disagreements with CAC from creditable sources to be detrimental to their marketing program.

 

Whoa! I do not see where Legend claims that the CAC, or anyone else in coins, is infallible. The fact is, on average, CAC stickered coins are better. If you offered me that I could have a random assortment of Saints in MS-65 or Dahlonega half eagles in XF-45 and I could select between the group that was CAC stickered or the group that was not, but I had to make the selection sight-unseen, I would be a fool to pick the non-stickered group.

 

Frankly, you could replace the "CAC-stickered" was "Doug Winter-selected", "Mark Feld-selected", or "Bill Jones-selected", but none of these entities have a service in which they label and make markets in coins they favor, so we have to settle on the CAC, as the added measure of assurance for those who are interested.

 

Does that mean that you cannot hand pick an equal or better coin that does not have a sticker? Of course, you can.

 

Does that mean that there are no CAC coins that are ugly, misjudged, misgraded, or otherwise undesirable? Of course not.

 

What I have seen is that the CAC is:

1) Aggressive about buying coins where they made a mistake.

2) CAC making an active market in some CAC-graded coins (gold coins come to mind).

 

To answer the OP, Legend sells the non-CAC coins primarily through channels that do not include their website. For the uninitiated, most retail dealers have similar channels for disposing of coins that they do not want to retail on their website for various reasons including quality issues. These include selling to wholesalers, via auctions, on the bourse, and or quietly without fanfare.