A first for me and I need a little help from NGC and the forum...

[coinman_23885]

you think with over 3200 feedback the guy would know more

 

 

ask him about this coin he has for sale - a $33 coin with a BIN of $2500

tell him SMS coins are not that rare in 68 and he is committing fraud trying to imply it is a pop 1

 

1966 NGC SMS MS68 he has for sale

 

That is ironic, isn't it?!

 

I contacted him about it and he claims that his coin came from a roll and is MS, not SMS. I told him that he should take that up with NGC. But that in the mean time, since NGC labeled it as SMS, his listing, stating that the population is 1, is false and misleading.

 

I agree. It will be interesting to see what eBay will say about his fraudulent (or inaccurate to say the least) listing.

[tenacious]

themshproject is now on my block list. One less over reactive PIA buyer to deal with.

And he is now on my "Sellers to avoid" list.

 

kryptonitecomics did you send him the link to this thread?

 

 

[brg5658]

That SMS quarter is purdy...I offered him $30.

 

Oh, and I blocked the seller right after I put in the offer.

[Kenneth F]

I entered a offer as well... $30...

 

He states it came from a roll.. I would ask.. did he get the roll from the bank in 1966??

 

 

[copper toning]

He now has six offers. Mine was $20

[nk1nk]

I can't believe he didn't take my $31 offer.

 

Nick

[WoodenJefferson]

The 66 SMS

 

This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available.

[e1cnr]

added to his Q & A on SMS ->

Q: Dear seller, This coin is an SMS example, as noted on the NGC grading label. And the NGC population for an MS68 SMS 1966, is 194. You stated that the population is 1, which is incorrect. The population of 1 is for a non-SMS example. This listing is incorrect and misleading and being reported to EBay. You should correct it so as not to harm your reputation. Best of luck. Jun-10-12

A: I spoke to NGC late Friday they asked us to send a digital copy of my "Proof" and they will evaluate. I just realized then we are filming a spot for our nonprofit coin summer camp which I had a copy of the video tapes and I'll get a letter from the film crew or Production Company filming for 60 Minutes so if they don't change it then I'll be convincing CBS of a new story by airing the , false grading on National TV, but i haven't told them anything just that i have proof and I'll expect a refund on shipping as I'm having it regraded because of their Mis-Grade! Either way thanks for all the info, plus over 27 offers in last 24 hours at $500+ for a SMS, this will be awesome when it's been corrected and ill be delisting them when I ship back. QUESTION HOW CAN YOU TELL WHICH WETE WHICH I TOOK TWO; one from the rest of the bank roll and one from a set I bought online. The bank roll aren't as string of a strike if anything but is that it?

 

 

 

 

 

any of you guys offering $500 +

[MarkFeld]

added to his Q & A on SMS ->

Q: Dear seller, This coin is an SMS example, as noted on the NGC grading label. And the NGC population for an MS68 SMS 1966, is 194. You stated that the population is 1, which is incorrect. The population of 1 is for a non-SMS example. This listing is incorrect and misleading and being reported to EBay. You should correct it so as not to harm your reputation. Best of luck. Jun-10-12

A: I spoke to NGC late Friday they asked us to send a digital copy of my "Proof" and they will evaluate. I just realized then we are filming a spot for our nonprofit coin summer camp which I had a copy of the video tapes and I'll get a letter from the film crew or Production Company filming for 60 Minutes so if they don't change it then I'll be convincing CBS of a new story by airing the , false grading on National TV, but i haven't told them anything just that i have proof and I'll expect a refund on shipping as I'm having it regraded because of their Mis-Grade! Either way thanks for all the info, plus over 27 offers in last 24 hours at $500+ for a SMS, this will be awesome when it's been corrected and ill be delisting them when I ship back. QUESTION HOW CAN YOU TELL WHICH WETE WHICH I TOOK TWO; one from the rest of the bank roll and one from a set I bought online. The bank roll aren't as string of a strike if anything but is that it?

 

 

 

 

 

any of you guys offering $500 +

 

That was my "question" to the seller and his reply to me. After that, I sent him the following message:

 

 

Dear themshproject,

 

Based on things I have seen you write, I have no desire to help you further and I will tell you why.

 

You seem to make very quick, unfair accusations against others, without having facts on your side. If NGC does not change their opinion, that does mean they are guilty of "false grading" - it means that in their opinion, the coin looks like an SMS example. Graders have to rely on their knowledge and experience and can't and shouldn't necessarily base their opinions on what submitters of coins tell them. Did you buy the roll from a bank and 1966 and have it in your possession the entire time? If not, you do not have proof that the coin is not an SMS strike, that someone put in the roll.

 

Also, I saw where you wrote about a Proof Roosevelt dime you won on Ebay lately "fake toned and re-slabbed NGC coin." I saw the listing. The toning is natural (not fake or artificial) and the coin was NOT reslabbed. That is my opinion as a full time dealer since 1979 and NGC grader for 7 years. I was also a buyer for David Hall, the founder and part owner of PCGS.

The holder is an older holder, which was chipped, like MANY others I see in auctions and at coin shows. You have falsely accused a good seller, based on your lack of knowledge and incorrect assumptions. And your words amount to libel - if he chooses to sue you, you will lose.

 

If you don't know something or have all of the facts, that is understandable. But that is no excuse to throw around false and baseless accusations as you have done, especially when it might hurt other people who have done nothing wrong. Think how you would feel if that was done to you.

 

 

 

[jom]

any of you guys offering $500 +

 

No...he meant to say the TOTAL of all of his offers are $500...

 

jom

 

 

[kryptonitecomics]

Well I am just waiting for the fradulent coin to be returned so he can leave me inaccurate negative feedback

[e1cnr]

Well I am just waiting for the fradulent coin to be returned so he can leave me inaccurate negative feedback

 

Did PAYPAL already pull funds from your account?

 

[kryptonitecomics]

Well I am just waiting for the fradulent coin to be returned so he can leave me inaccurate negative feedback

 

Did PAYPAL already pull funds from your account?

 

 

The froze the funds but they actually froze the fund for both coins he bought not just the one he is returning....very shady if you ask me...

[coinman_23885]

Well I am just waiting for the fradulent coin to be returned so he can leave me inaccurate negative feedback

 

This is one of the things that bothers me the most. You have been selling on eBay for years without a single negative feedback entry, and this insufficiently_thoughtful_person will surely mess this up. While I am sure that this is upsetting; don't worry. It won't really matter in the end. It's not going to affect your business or outstanding reputation. It is more of an issue of inconvenience at this point.

 

P.S. Although it probably is futile, you could always contest any negative feedback with eBay. After all, you did return his money and did so quickly and without reservation.

[MarkFeld]

Well I am just waiting for the fradulent coin to be returned so he can leave me inaccurate negative feedback

 

This is one of the things that bothers me the most. You have been selling on eBay for years without a single negative feedback entry, and this insufficiently_thoughtful_person will surely mess this up. While I am sure that this is upsetting; don't worry. It won't really matter in the end. It's not going to affect your business or outstanding reputation. It is more of an issue of inconvenience at this point.

 

P.S. Although it probably is futile, you could always contest any negative feedback with eBay. After all, you did return his money and did so quickly and without reservation.

 

My guess is that Shane will not receive negative feedback.

[kryptonitecomics]

Mark could be right....I don't think Ebay will allow him to leave feedback after the case is settled with the refund but I don't know for sure.

 

By the way I have received negative feedback in the past....your positive rating only relates to the past 12-months....I believe I had a few negative many many years ago from a lady who bought comic books from me, sent them in to some grading company I never heard of and when the grades came back different from what I graded them she wanted me to refund the total purchase price + all grading and shipping fees....some 3 months after she bought them

[kryptonitecomics]

Ok we were both wrong...this was the feedback left for both coins

 

 

Thank you for being one of the few honest sellers left item is perfect! LOYALTY!

 

Buyer: Member id themshproject ( Feedback Score Of 3271) Jun-12-12 10:03

 

1963 Roosevelt Dime NGC PF68 Rainbow Toned ~COLORFUL TONING~ Old Slab (#221030202461) US $32.99 View Item 1963 Roosevelt Dime NGC PF68 Rainbow Toned ~COLORFUL TONING~ Old Slab

 

[MarkFeld]

Ok we were both wrong...this was the feedback left for both coins

 

 

Thank you for being one of the few honest sellers left item is perfect! LOYALTY!

 

Buyer: Member id themshproject ( Feedback Score Of 3271) Jun-12-12 10:03

 

1963 Roosevelt Dime NGC PF68 Rainbow Toned ~COLORFUL TONING~ Old Slab (#221030202461) US $32.99 View Item 1963 Roosevelt Dime NGC PF68 Rainbow Toned ~COLORFUL TONING~ Old Slab

 

I have a feeling the buyer received a bit of pressure to act sensibly.

[coinman_23885]

Ok we were both wrong...this was the feedback left for both coins

 

 

Thank you for being one of the few honest sellers left item is perfect! LOYALTY!

 

Buyer: Member id themshproject ( Feedback Score Of 3271) Jun-12-12 10:03

 

1963 Roosevelt Dime NGC PF68 Rainbow Toned ~COLORFUL TONING~ Old Slab (#221030202461) US $32.99 View Item 1963 Roosevelt Dime NGC PF68 Rainbow Toned ~COLORFUL TONING~ Old Slab

 

I didn't see this coming for certain. I'm glad that at least things worked out (barring the small financial loss in shipping and handling fees).

[kryptonitecomics]

Ok we were both wrong...this was the feedback left for both coins

 

 

Thank you for being one of the few honest sellers left item is perfect! LOYALTY!

 

Buyer: Member id themshproject ( Feedback Score Of 3271) Jun-12-12 10:03

 

1963 Roosevelt Dime NGC PF68 Rainbow Toned ~COLORFUL TONING~ Old Slab (#221030202461) US $32.99 View Item 1963 Roosevelt Dime NGC PF68 Rainbow Toned ~COLORFUL TONING~ Old Slab

 

I have a feeling the buyer received a bit of pressure to act sensibly.

 

I little birdy told him how lawyers work

[comicdonna]

Well I am just waiting for the fradulent coin to be returned so he can leave me inaccurate negative feedback

 

Did PAYPAL already pull funds from your account?

 

 

The froze the funds but they actually froze the fund for both coins he bought not just the one he is returning....very shady if you ask me...

[WoodenJefferson]

Ok we were both wrong...this was the feedback left for both coins

 

 

Thank you for being one of the few honest sellers left item is perfect! LOYALTY!

 

Buyer: Member id themshproject ( Feedback Score Of 3271) Jun-12-12 10:03

 

1963 Roosevelt Dime NGC PF68 Rainbow Toned ~COLORFUL TONING~ Old Slab (#221030202461) US $32.99 View Item 1963 Roosevelt Dime NGC PF68 Rainbow Toned ~COLORFUL TONING~ Old Slab

 

I have a feeling the buyer received a bit of pressure to act sensibly.

 

I little birdy told him how lawyers work

 

That or the rocking chair on the front porch is completely empty. This has been one very strange saga.

[ultra-crepidarian]

Shane,

 

I feel really bad for you. Of course, you didn't deserve this but you were not dealing with an adult, you were dealing with some high school kid in Newark NJ. Remember, on the Internet nobody knows you are a dog.

 

Here is what I have put together. The buyer's ID, themshproject, is not associated with an individual but is associated with a non-profit corporation; the MSH Project, Inc. Different students use the same E-bay ID. The person who purchased your coin may be entirely different from the person who posted the "1966 ONE OF ONE - POP 1 WASHINGTON QUARTER DOLLAR" for sale. Different kids use the ID to buy and sell all kind of products, including coins, on E-bay. The 3272 feedbacks is totally misleading, the kid who bought your coin obviously has little maturity or experience.

 

The Founder and CEO of the non-profit is Michael Harrison. He is the person you should be dealing with. He is ultimately responsible for the student's behavior. I have included a link to detail contact information for him. Read a little about the project and some of his discontinued blog entries. He is trying to do something positive for these kids: Our future collectors? They could use some numismatic mentoring and ANA memberships for sure. Anyway, I hope you will feel a little bit better about this once you learn more about the situation.

 

Links:

 

The non-profit's web site.

http://www.themsh.org/

 

A discontinued blog with detailed contact information for Mr. Harrison. (see the Friday, May 27,2011 entry)

http://k12brokers.blogspot.com/

 

Michael Harrison's autobiography

http://k12brokers.blogspot.com/2010/11/about-our-non-profit-project.html

 

 

[MarkFeld]

Shane,

 

I feel really bad for you. Of course, you didn't deserve this but you were not dealing with an adult, you were dealing with some high school kid in Newark NJ. Remember, on the Internet nobody knows you are a dog.

 

Here is what I have put together. The buyer's ID, themshproject, is not associated with an individual but is associated with a non-profit corporation; the MSH Project, Inc. Different students use the same E-bay ID. The person who purchased your coin may be entirely different from the person who posted the "1966 ONE OF ONE - POP 1 WASHINGTON QUARTER DOLLAR" for sale. Different kids use the ID to buy and sell all kind of products, including coins, on E-bay. The 3272 feedbacks is totally misleading, the kid who bought your coin obviously has little maturity or experience.

 

The Founder and CEO of the non-profit is Michael Harrison. He is the person you should be dealing with. He is ultimately responsible for the student's behavior. I have included a link to detail contact information for him. Read a little about the project and some of his discontinued blog entries. He is trying to do something positive for these kids: Our future collectors? They could use some numismatic mentoring and ANA memberships for sure. Anyway, I hope you will feel a little bit better about this once you learn more about the situation.

 

Links:

 

The non-profit's web site.

http://www.themsh.org/

 

A discontinued blog with detailed contact information for Mr. Harrison. (see the Friday, May 27,2011 entry)

http://k12brokers.blogspot.com/

 

Michael Harrison's autobiography

http://k12brokers.blogspot.com/2010/11/about-our-non-profit-project.html

 

 

Michael is the person I communicated with. And, based on his messages, I think (but am not certain that) he is the one who jumped to conclusions about the coin and the holder and contacted EBay.

 

After I (politely) read the riot act to him, he was extremely apologetic. But I told him it was Shane, not me, to whom he owed the apology.

[coinman_23885]

It appears that his libelous website is still up. I would use Mr. Feld's "scared straight" tactics to your favor to have this removed as well.

 

[coinman_23885]

Ok we were both wrong...this was the feedback left for both coins

 

 

Thank you for being one of the few honest sellers left item is perfect! LOYALTY!

 

Buyer: Member id themshproject ( Feedback Score Of 3271) Jun-12-12 10:03

 

1963 Roosevelt Dime NGC PF68 Rainbow Toned ~COLORFUL TONING~ Old Slab (#221030202461) US $32.99 View Item 1963 Roosevelt Dime NGC PF68 Rainbow Toned ~COLORFUL TONING~ Old Slab

 

So are you going to leave positive feedback in return for him?

 

I'm sorry, but I couldn't help but ask.

[comicdonna]

It sounds like this might be straightened out soon?

[ultra-crepidarian]

Mark, I guess your intervention accounts for the positive feedback. I think it was extremely nice of you to take the time to get involved on behalf of Shane: A big thumbs up to you.

 

Shane, I still find this a very strange episode and I feel Mr. Harrison owes you an apology for this bad behavior. I hope you are OK; you didn’t deserve that kind of treatment. Life is too short. We shouldn’t treat each other like that.

[jerseycat10]

Kudos to Mark and ultra-crepidarian for their positive contributions to this issue, which resulted in a positive outcome.

[kryptonitecomics]

Ok we were both wrong...this was the feedback left for both coins

 

 

Thank you for being one of the few honest sellers left item is perfect! LOYALTY!

 

Buyer: Member id themshproject ( Feedback Score Of 3271) Jun-12-12 10:03

 

1963 Roosevelt Dime NGC PF68 Rainbow Toned ~COLORFUL TONING~ Old Slab (#221030202461) US $32.99 View Item 1963 Roosevelt Dime NGC PF68 Rainbow Toned ~COLORFUL TONING~ Old Slab

 

So are you going to leave positive feedback in return for him?

 

I'm sorry, but I couldn't help but ask.

 

 

I already did when I received the original payment....I am one of those crazy sellers that leaves feedback when I get paid

 

Thanks for the additional info all and while I privately thanked Mark for his assistance in this mater I will publicly thank him here as well

 

I don't believe I am going to pursue this any further with the seller...frankly I don't have the time over a $32 coin and if the seller wants to send me an apology via ebay great and if he doesn't then that's fine as well.