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what is proper?

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This last weekend my wife and I went with another couple on a mini vacation to a small town up in the Puget Sound area of Washington State. The guy of the other couple is a friend of mine from high school and shares my enthusiasm for coins. The gals were entertained by the various clothing and antique shops, but he and I were scouring the landscape for a coin shop. Alas, the only shop identified through several searches of bother the internet and phone books was closed and boarded up. So he and I dutifully started going through the clothes and antique shops with our wives and just generally having a pleasant time. At the last antique shop we visited, there was a glass case with a Seoul Olympics commemorative set that didn't interest me and two Morgans. I inquired as to the price on the Morgans and they wanted $90 each for them. Thinking they must be special in some way, I asked to see them closer. One was a 1889 P and the other was a 1888 O. Both were raw and both had been whizzed badly...Liberty's face highpoints were as shiny as the chrome on my collectors car. I told the gal behind the counter I wasn't interested because the coins had been polished. She attempted to first argue with me that they weren't and then defended the price because of the "high silver content" of the coins...I looked af her funny and told her silver was trading at $31/oz and there was less than an oz of silver in the coins...but she did offer to take 10% off the asking price.... I excused myself from the conversation and left. Both my buddy and I were convinced that the coins had been ruined by the shop owner in an attempt to make them "pretty" for resale, and the asking price was ridiculous... In retrospect I wonder if I should have tried harder to educate the shop owner about why this was a horrible thing to do to and old coin or if it would have been viewed as insulting to question their wares...what would you do? Keep in mind, this was an antique shop, not a coin store.

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You described the coins as "whizzed" and "polished" - those are two very different things.

 

Also, it is possible that the coins had been consigned and were not the property of the shop owner.

 

It sounds as if you made a reasonable attempt to let the lady know that the coins had been ruined. There is no way to know whether additional effort on your part would have made a difference. Some people are open to learning about such things, while other are not.

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Some people just don't want to be educated. Even if you had told her that the Morgans contained .77344 oz of silver, indicating some knowledge on your part, I doubt it would have made any difference.

 

About 5 years ago, I decided to check out a local auction house that was near my place of employment. They had one display case next to the front desk that contained a bunch of Morgans and other silver coins. I noticed that they were all in soft flips and a few had definite indications of PVC contamination. When I mentioned it to the man at the desk and suggested that he remove them to a safer environment, all I got from him was a "big deal!" stare as if I was the problem, not the flip.

 

Chris

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You described the coins as "whizzed" and "polished" - those are two very different things.

 

Also, it is possible that the coins had been consigned and were not the property of the shop owner.

 

It sounds as if you made a reasonable attempt to let the lady know that the coins had been ruined. There is no way to know whether additional effort on your part would have made a difference. Some people are open to learning about such things, while other are not.

 

To me they looked like they had been buffed with a rotating mechanical polishing wheel. Having done some metal working in my past, I can see the signs. So if my understanding of "whizzed" is correct, that is the correct term....I guess I am unclear as to the difference between "polished" and "whizzed" unless whizzed is mechanical vs. Hand polishing? Enlighten me....

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You described the coins as "whizzed" and "polished" - those are two very different things.

 

Also, it is possible that the coins had been consigned and were not the property of the shop owner.

 

It sounds as if you made a reasonable attempt to let the lady know that the coins had been ruined. There is no way to know whether additional effort on your part would have made a difference. Some people are open to learning about such things, while other are not.

 

To me they looked like they had been buffed with a rotating mechanical polishing wheel. Having done some metal working in my past, I can see the signs. So if my understanding of "whizzed" is correct, that is the correct term....I guess I am unclear as to the difference between "polished" and "whizzed" unless whizzed is mechanical vs. Hand polishing? Enlighten me....

 

Yes, "whizzed" is a particular mechanical process, whereas "polished" is literally polishing, like with silverware.

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Ok that's what I thought...thanks...please forgive my blurring of terms. I believe the poor specimens had been whizzed.

 

The part that's frustrating to me, is that even though a antique store isn't a specialty shop for coins, you would think they would be interested in preserving the integrity of the coins for future generations. They would be pretty upset with someone replacing wood using modern tools on say an antique rocking chair...why would they be so narrow minded about coins? If I had mentioned the whizzed effect and they said "yeah, it was like that when we got it and we told the owner not to do that ever again" then fine. But I got the distinct impression that I was being a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person as far as they were concerned for even mentioning it.

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It appears the person behind the counter had fixed ideas and was not open to learning, for whatever reason... I think you were smart to let it drop. Good try, though!

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I never attempt to correct or instruct non-collectors - they get so offended when their preconceived notions are challenged that it's not worth the ill will they display.

 

On another note, as I understand it, "whizzing" refers to the use of a motorized wire brush on a coin.

 

So, if you used some other attachment on the same motor (say a dremel tool, for example), the coin would be "polished", but not "whizzed."

 

The difference would be the pattern of fine lines left by the wire brush, as opposed to the finer polishing marks left by a cloth attachment, for example.

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Generally speaking, folks that price their coins high, truly think that they are worth the price. Since they are business owners, or perhaps hired help, they have the ability to do research but prefer to stay ignorant since you just never know when someone might come in and pay the high price.

 

I've been to many antique stores that had way overpriced coins and there's simply no convincing them otherwise.

 

Not only do they believe the prices are correct, they don't know me from Jack and 9 out of 10 times think that I'm trying to weasel down their profit margins.

 

In cases like this, I try to "read" their responses. If the response is "your the customer and I'm the shop owner", I do not continue.

If they respond with genuine curiosity, I then engage them in conversation.

 

In the OP's case, you tried but she obviously thought you were blowing smoke by reducing the price by only 10% and not engaging you in conversation.

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Years ago I was in an antique shop that had a Spanish Milled Dollar for sale. When I looked at the piece when it was out of its locked case, I immediately saw that it was a modern cast counterfeit. I explained that to the owner, but he swore that it was genuine and that I "did not know anything." Some people just don’t want to listen.

 

Usually I’ve found that the coins offered in antique stores are massively over priced and that who ever catalogs them knows nothing about grading or identifying problems. We must remember that it takes specialized knowledge to practice our hobby, and that most generalist antique dealers don’t have that skill.

 

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Do you think the gal behind the counter was an owner, or employee?

 

Just because the items were double or triple what you would want to pay does not mean they know nothing.

 

I am not sure how many times I have been in pawn shops looking at their wares and notice the same thing - maybe they don't want to sell competitively but rather to people who don't know, so they can get double.

 

It is possible everything in the entire store was priced at least double what it is worth, just you knew about one area.

 

 

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Remember...we live in an entitled civilization now, especially where it involves opinions. No opinion, no matter how silly, illogical, irrational, ridiculous, or simply utterly opposed to all reason and evidence, is ever "invalid", because the espouser is "entitled" to it.

 

And, of course, the corollary...that said opinion should be immune to challenge or criticism, again because one is "entitled" to it...is also true.

 

I find the retort "you don't know what you're talking about" given to people who have spent years or even decades in their chosen field to be so wildly offensive, the only response is Phil Jackson's:

 

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When dealing with any shop - Coin Shop, Pawn Shop, Antique Store or for that matter a dealer or seller at a show:

 

1. I will look carefully at the material and examine it closely and ask any pertinent questions and may engage in conversation about their inventory, etc.

2. If I don't like the asking price (and interested in acquiring the item) I will either make a counter offer (and lay my money on the table) or pass.

3. I am polite at all times.

4. I don't argue or knock their grading, pricing or try to "educate" them.

 

In your example, the coin was both whizzed and grossly overpriced. Since it was whizzed obviously making a counter offer seems a moot issue. I would have simply passed and chalked it up to another tourist trap with overpriced material and an ignorant seller. I don't question someone who wants to challenge them on the price / grading, but that is your call. I am merely relaying how I handle these situations.

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I live in Blight, Washington, in the I-5 corridor at the Canadian border. There is only one jewelry/coin shop on which I am aware of in the US within 50 miles of Blight. It is in Bellingham (Barkley Square) and they are nice people but more nice jewelry and limited in coin stock. They are trying to grow the coin business and I deal with them several times a year. There are many coin stores across the border in Canada FWIW.

 

Blight is comprised of 15 ($.25/gal) overpriced, Canadian gouging, gas stations, three restaurants and a small casino. Local amusement is provided by Chinese Canadians driving across our two traffic circle, turn-abouts, instead of driving around these in the roadbed. Undercarriage sparks provide a blue flashing light show for free. The town is going to put a (demolition derby), heavy gauge steel bench across the turn-about center for our very own collision, entertainment center. How nice of them!

 

We also have featured fistfights regularly between Canadians (1/2 million per week) driving north from I-5 into only only 2 border gates conveniently obstructed by Homeland Security. They first race each other from 4 lanes into 6 lanes on the last US exit and then down to 2 lanes while executing a creative, lateral, cutting into line arabesque because they are too important wait in line, especially in a former colony of England. Our eight man, town Police force acts as referees most days.

 

Don't try to buy any whole milk here in our overpriced supermarket because the Canadian Sikh hoards have pillaged (oops, purchased) carloads of any and all milk out by noon daily and they don't even drink it! We locals have to have milk treasure hunts throughout the county in order to buy a gallon and drink the stuff. With locals being outnumbered by proximal Canadians at a ratio of 800 to 1, some neighbors drive two counties south (50 miles) to shop and actually can find and buy milk without foreign hordes grabbing in cartons from under their hands in the dairy case.

 

There is a B&M coin dealer in Blight, at least by reputation. This shop is only open on Saint Whiffen's Day and maybe Leprechaun holidays as nearly as I can tell. This in 7 years of trying to find him open for business and not succeeding once in seeing his shop from the inside. He does have coins because I can see dusty, semi opaque, cardboard 2x2's scattered on counters through his dirty shop window.

 

Coin shows are small, infrequent locally and very limited in choices with no slabbed coins of note.

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