PCGS grade guarantee

[JIM F.]

Have a couple coins that have gone ugly with spots after being encapsulated. What has been board members in resolving such matters with PCGS? Also what is the process?

 

[jerseycat10]

there's a thread across the street, where one of the kool-aid drinkers was commending PCGS on their guaranty.

 

Only in passing did he mention it took 18 MONTHS to get his case resolved.

 

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

LINKY: http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=852043

[RWB]

Encapsulation has disadvantages that are best overcome when a coin is processed. A "clean room" approach from initial movement to the grading room to after encasement could prevent a lot of airborne particle problems, like the ones shown above.

[coinman_23885]

there's a thread across the street, where one of the kool-aid drinkers was commending PCGS on their guaranty.

 

Only in passing did he mention it took 18 MONTHS to get his case resolved.

 

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

LINKY: http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=852043

 

And what gets me is that the submitter was actually praising PCGS. What a brown noser.

[jom]

I know copper can be very "volatile" but is it possible the Barber was graded MS62 for this very reason???

 

jom

[JIM F.]

I know copper can be very "volatile" but is it possible the Barber was graded MS62 for this very reason???

 

jom

 

It did not have those spots when I bought it several years ago.

 

[coinman_23885]

I know copper can be very "volatile" but is it possible the Barber was graded MS62 for this very reason???

 

jom

 

It did not have those spots when I bought it several years ago.

 

This suggests that the damage may be environmental (i.e. the result of moisture). The PCGS Guarantee doesn't cover these. You may be out of luck, especially on the copper.

[JIM F.]

I know copper can be very "volatile" but is it possible the Barber was graded MS62 for this very reason???

 

jom

 

It did not have those spots when I bought it several years ago.

 

This suggests that the damage may be environmental (i.e. the result of moisture). The PCGS Guarantee doesn't cover these. You may be out of luck, especially on the copper.

 

You mean I shouldn't store them in my piranha filled aquarium? That's what they did on an episode of Mannix afterall!

[coinman_23885]

I know copper can be very "volatile" but is it possible the Barber was graded MS62 for this very reason???

 

jom

 

It did not have those spots when I bought it several years ago.

 

This suggests that the damage may be environmental (i.e. the result of moisture). The PCGS Guarantee doesn't cover these. You may be out of luck, especially on the copper.

 

You mean I shouldn't store them in my piranha filled aquarium? That's what they did on an episode of Mannix afterall!

 

 

While I agree that only the extreme storage conditions cited by you should qualify, it does specifically mention humidity. I hope it works out; I'm sure that it probably will. With this said, I would re-evaluate the way I stored my collection if I were you.

[delta]

If it were me, I'd just submit those two to NGC's coin conservation service, it has the initials NCS, they do wonders, and are relatively inexpensive, especially if you leave instructions to afterwards have the coin graded and slabbed by NGC. In my opinion, it's not worth the aggravation, hassle, and time and effort to pursue other alternatives.

[MarkFeld]

there's a thread across the street, where one of the kool-aid drinkers was commending PCGS on their guaranty.

 

Only in passing did he mention it took 18 MONTHS to get his case resolved.

 

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

LINKY: http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=852043

 

And what gets me is that the submitter was actually praising PCGS. What a brown noser.

 

The poster in question is quite young, and I know him to speak his mind, honestly and openly, regardless of the topic or identity of those with whom he converses. Without your knowing his motives, it was rude and unfair for you to label him a "brown noser"'.

[lehigh96]

there's a thread across the street, where one of the kool-aid drinkers was commending PCGS on their guaranty.

 

Only in passing did he mention it took 18 MONTHS to get his case resolved.

 

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

LINKY: http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=852043

 

Jerseycat,

 

Please tell me that I am not going crazy. Didn't your post in this thread at some point indicate that PCGS had deleted your comment ATS?

[bochiman]

there's a thread across the street, where one of the kool-aid drinkers was commending PCGS on their guaranty.

 

Only in passing did he mention it took 18 MONTHS to get his case resolved.

 

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

LINKY: http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=852043

 

And what gets me is that the submitter was actually praising PCGS. What a brown noser.

 

The poster in question is quite young, and I know him to speak his mind, honestly and openly, regardless of the topic or identity of those with whom he converses. Without your knowing his motives, it was rude and unfair for you to label him a "brown noser"'.

 

Good points, Mark. Sometimes, people say things like that just to get the attention and look all tough.

 

I have never found Caleb's posts to be anything but polite and how he feels. Definitely not in the "brown noser" category. Methinks some folks could take a few notes in how to act in a more public environment.

[coinman_23885]

there's a thread across the street, where one of the kool-aid drinkers was commending PCGS on their guaranty.

 

Only in passing did he mention it took 18 MONTHS to get his case resolved.

 

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

LINKY: http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=852043

 

And what gets me is that the submitter was actually praising PCGS. What a brown noser.

 

The poster in question is quite young, and I know him to speak his mind, honestly and openly, regardless of the topic or identity of those with whom he converses. Without your knowing his motives, it was rude and unfair for you to label him a "brown noser"'.

I was inferring his motive because I had difficulty contemplating how anyone could praise a TPG for taking 1.5 years to properly compensate him. Moreover, I had difficulty comprehending how others could attempt to defend PCGS on the delay. Even if PCGS was looking for a replacement coin, if one couldn't be located within 3 months or so (which I would have difficulty believing), then it is time for them to invoke their guarantee and payout. As was alluded to here by other posters, buy back/guarantee submissions should come first and be the TPG's top priority.

 

With this said, I will admit that I was wrong to call him a brown noser and that my comments were, perhaps, unfair.

I apologize.

[coinman_23885]

Good points, Mark. Sometimes, people say things like that just to get the attention and look all tough.

 

I have no problems admitting that I make mistakes, and if I am objectively wrong, I have no qualms about admitting this and accepting responsibility. With this said, my comments and apology have nothing to do with public perception. While I respect my fellow members and consider their criticisms and feedback, I care more about accuracy of information (and hence my apology). Your comments are false insofar as they assume that the were meant to bolster some odd conceived sense of social esteem or position. This would assume that I care about how others view me. This is not correct. I would rather be accurate and have people hate me. With this said, I am/was objectively wrong here. My comments were speculative and unfair, and for this I apologize.

 

Methinks some folks could take a few notes in how to act in a more public environment.

 

I have a lot of respect for you Ron, and I don't want to and will not engage in a squabble with you. With this said, after you posted numerous comments questioning Noow's intelligence on one of his "experiments," notwithstanding knowledge of his age (a very young minor), please do not lecture me about decorum in a public forum.

[leeg]

PCGS Guarantee of Grade and Authenticity – United States Coins

 

PCGS guarantees that all United States coins submitted to it shall be graded in accordance with the PCGS grading standards and under the procedures of PCGS. "United States coins" mean all issues of the United States Mint from 1792 to present, including patterns, and all Territorial and Colonial issues.

 

In the event the purchaser of a PCGS graded coin believes that the coin has been overgraded with respect to such standards and procedures, or is non-authentic, he may submit such coin to PCGS through the PCGS "Guarantee Resubmission" procedures and PCGS will re-examine coin to determine the coin's grade and authenticity.

 

If the grade determined under such "Guarantee Resubmission" procedures is lower than the grade originally assigned to the coin, or if the coin is found to be misattributed, non-authentic, PCGS shall pay the current market value for the coin in question at the originally assigned grade, or at the owner of the coin's option, the difference between the current market value for the coin in question at the newly established grade and the current market value of the coin in question at the grade originally assigned. PCGS will also refund the regrading fee and postage and insurance costs incurred by the coin owner in sending the coin to PCGS. IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT PCGS WILL BE THE SOLE DETERMINER OF THE CURRENT MARKET VALUE OF THE COIN AND THAT CURRENT MARKET VALUE IS DEFINED AS DEALER REPLACEMENT VALUE, I.E. THE PRICE A DEALER WOULD MOST LIKELY HAVE TO PAY TO REPLACE THE COIN. CUSTOMER HEREBY CONSENTS TO PERSONAL JURISDICTION OF THE COURTS OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA WITH RESPECT TO ANY LEGAL ACTION TO ENFORCE THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OR OTHERWISE ARISING UNDER OR WITH RESPECT TO THIS GUARANTEE, AND AGREES THAT THE SUPERIOR COURT OF CALIFORNIA, COUNTY OF ORANGE, OR, IF APPLICABLE, FEDERAL DISTRICT COURT SITTING IN THE COUNTY OF ORANGE, STATE OF CALIFORNIA, SHALL BE THE SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE VENUE, AND THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA SHALL BE THE SOLE FORUM, FOR THE BRINGING OF SUCH ACTION. THE PCGS GRADING GUARANTEE DOES NOT APPLY TO ANY CLAIMS BROUGHT OUTSIDE OF THE COURTS OF ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA.

 

This guarantee shall not apply to any coin as to which an obvious clerical error has been made with respect to the description of the coin. This guarantee shall also not apply to any coin which has been removed from the PCGS holder or any coin for which the PCGS holder shows evidence of tampering. Further, this guarantee shall not apply to any coin which has been environmentally damaged due to improper storage or natural disasters such as fire and flood.

 

In addition to grade and authenticity, the PCGS Guarantee also covers the attribution of varieties, but does not cover obvious clerical errors in the description of the variety.

 

How to Use the PCGS Guarantee

 

If you have a coin that you feel is overgraded, misattributed, or counterfeit, call PCGS Customer Service and they will help you fill out the proper submission forms. For approximate turnaround times, please ask a PCGS Customer Service Representative. After PCGS examines your coin, if PCGS feels your coin has been overgraded, misattributed, or is counterfeit, you will be contacted by phone or email and given the current market values so you can decide which of the repayment options you wish to use. If PCGS determines that the original grade is correct, your coin will be returned to you with the original grade and you will be responsible for the regrading fee and postage charges.

 

What the PCGS Guarantee Does Not Cover

 

The following is further explanation of what the PCGS Guarantee does not cover.

 

Clerical or "mechanical" errors. PCGS occasionally makes clerical errors in inputting data which is shown on the insert in the PCGS holder; consequently the PCGS Guarantee does not cover obvious clerical errors, what we call "mechanical errors." The key concept is how obvious the error is to the naked eye. If you can easily tell just by looking at the coin that the description on the holder is wrong, then the coin/holder combination is not covered by the PCGS Guarantee. Examples would include the following:

 

A date listed on the holder that does not match the date of the coin. For example, if you had a 1928 $20 St. Gaudens, but the PCGS holder showed the date as 1929 (a much more valuable coin), this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as the date on the coin itself is obviously 1928.

 

A designation that is obviously incorrect. For example, if you had a 1945 Philadelphia Mercury dime and the bands on the reverse were as flat as a pancake and obviously not fully struck, but the PCGS holder showed the designation as "FB" for fully struck crossbands, this coin would not be covered the PCGS Guarantee as the crossbands are obviously not fully struck.

 

Proofs shown as regular strikes and regular strikes shown as proofs. For example, if you had an obvious regular strike 1907 $2.5 gold piece, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a proof, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as the difference between a regular strike and proof 1907 $2.5 is obvious.

 

An obviously misidentified coin. For example, if you have a Hudson silver commemorative, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a Hawaiian silver commemorative, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as a Hudson is obviously not a Hawaiian.

 

A variety attribution that is obviously incorrect. For example, if you had a normal date 1942 Mercury dime, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a much rarer 1942/1 overdate, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as the date is obviously normal. Another example would be if you had a 1945 Mercury dime with an obviously normal size mint mark, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a "Micro S." This coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee since the mint mark is obviously normal size.

 

A blatantly obvious clerical input mistake with respect to the actual grade of the coin. For example, if you had an 1893-O Morgan dollar and the PCGS holder showed the coin as MS65 (a Gem quality coin), but the coin was so beat up and marked up that it would grade MS60 at best, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as this would be an obvious input error. The rule of thumb here would be a difference of more than two points on the grading scale.

 

Coins Removed From PCGS Holders. The PCGS Guarantee does not apply to coins removed from PCGS holders. There are no exceptions to this policy. You remove a coin from a PCGS holder at your risk.

 

Coins that have tampered holders. Unfortunately, some unscrupulous people occasionally try to defraud people by removing coins from PCGS holders, replacing them with less valuable coins and then resealing the holders. Most of these "reholders" are crude and obvious. Some are more sophisticated. The PCGS Guarantee does not apply to coins that are in holders that have been tampered with. Nor does the PCGS guarantee cover coins in counterfeit PCGS holders.

 

Coins that have been tampered with inside the PCGS holder. Some unscrupulous people try to alter the appearance of coins within the PCGS holder. For example, they may heat a holder and/or blow chemicals into the holder in order to change the color or toning of a coin. The artificial look is obvious and such altered coins are not covered by the PCGS Guarantee.

 

Coins that are environmentally damaged. The PCGS holder, while excellent for long term storage and protection, does not protect coins from harsh environmental conditions. Consequently, the PCGS Guarantee does not apply to coins which have been environmentally damaged. For example, if your coins are damaged in a flood or fire, the PCGS Guarantee would not apply to those coins. This also applies to copper coins stored in environmentally risky locations (high humidity, see next paragraph.)

 

IMPORTANT: Because the color and surfaces of copper coins can change due to environmental factors, PCGS does not guarantee the color of copper coins, or the absence of copper spotting, for any PCGS graded copper coin graded or sold after January 1, 2010.

[James_OldeTowne]

Have a couple coins that have gone ugly with spots after being encapsulated. What has been board members in resolving such matters with PCGS? Also what is the process?

For me, three words come to mind: "infamous Norweb Hibernia".

 

However, some folks have had excellent customer service from PCGS, so you might be just fine getting a "grade review" situation rolling.

[MarkFeld]

The original poster has updated the thread with more detailed information. It better explains why he was pleased and (at least partly) why the process took so long.

[coinman_23885]

The original poster has updated the thread with more detailed information. It better explains why he was pleased and (at least partly) why the process took so long.

 

You beat me to the punch; I was getting ready to do this myself. To summarize: The original poster was made an offer within 4 months, but insisted on a replacement. The coin was an esoteric proof modern Kennedy Half Dollar variety with a PCGS population of 5. In other words, PCGS didn't sit on the coin for 18 months without action; these facts were not mentioned originally.

[MarkFeld]

The original poster has updated the thread with more detailed information. It better explains why he was pleased and (at least partly) why the process took so long.

 

You beat me to the punch; I was getting ready to do this myself. To summarize: The original poster was made an offer within 4 months, but insisted on a replacement. The coin was an esoteric proof modern Kennedy Half Dollar with a PCGS population of 5. In other words, PCGS didn't sit on the coin for 18 months without action; these facts were not mentioned originally.

 

By the way, while the coin wasn't ignored for 18 months, I still think that 4 months was far, far too long for an offer to have been made.

[Buffalo Head]

It's been my experience that pcgs sandbags a point or so on their grading so they should take care of your problem. Just my opinion of course...

 

[leeg]

I've sent in three Grade Guarantee coins to PCGS. All took over eight months to resolve. I was made whole on each, but eight month's+. No excuse IMO. No One is that busy and it does reflect on Customer Service.