Why will there not ever be a PF-70 Franklin half?

[JIM F.]

A statement made by R.T. on a cable coin channel. If I heard it right R.T. said that there will NEVER be a PF-70 Franklin half. What is the logic for that?

 

Here is my PF-69* Cameo which I presume is the highest these will ever be graded (?)

 

[WoodenJefferson]

Of course I have no idea what they are basing their facts on to make a statement as such, but if you think about it, the "method of manufacture" has changed substantially since the production of Franklin half dollars. Also, don't propose that question to some other basement dweller grading services.

 

New methods of die preparation and planchet preparation has yielded almost perfect coins, a far cry from the 50's and 60's production runs.

 

Is there a perfect Franklin sitting out there that will garner the top spot? Who knows until you try.

[cpm9ball]

If I heard it right R.T. said that there will NEVER be a PF-70 Franklin half.

 

Have you ever heard any of those hucksters say anything without an ulterior motive?

 

Chris

[Dcoin]

I think by now it's a matter of perception for certain issues. For example, to make a gem 53s fbl the graders are going to look long and hard before putting out a five-figure modern rarity. Same for the 70 cent or the 69 buffalo. Its hard to be the first to jump in the pool.

 

 

[Raisethis2]

I think the statement might be based (at least in part) on two factors.

 

1. The vast majority of Franklin Halves minted have been handled in some fashion or another. Even in mint cello there might be just enough rub in addition to minting methods to make finding anything pristine impossible.

 

2. PCGS and NGC will have the final say. If they want PF 70 reserved for coins minted very recently they are Judge and Jury until someone knocks them off their perch.

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Honestly, I wouldn't trust anything Tomaska has said for the past few years. He used to be a very knowledgeable author, and wrote excellent books. He was always an excellent promoter as well, popularizing the FBL and Cameo designations, and convincing the TPGs to list them. However, over the last ten years or so he has transformed into a shameless huckster and TV salesman. I don't recommend you buy his newest book at all.

 

A PF70 is just as possible as a 70 in any other category. It would sell for moon money, but they've never graded one (yet).

 

Keep in mind, however, that there really is no difference between a 69 and a 70, in practical terms.

[James_OldeTowne]

Honestly, I wouldn't trust anything Tomaska has said for the past few years. He used to be a very knowledgeable author, and wrote excellent books. He was always an excellent promoter as well, popularizing the FBL and Cameo designations, and convincing the TPGs to list them. However, over the last ten years or so he has transformed into a shameless huckster and TV salesman. I don't recommend you buy his newest book at all.

As a simple test, I challenge anyone to try to sell a coin back to him, and if you can even manage to get an offer out of him at all, be well prepared at how low it will be by comparison to what the coin cost you.

[coinman_23885]

I think by now it's a matter of perception for certain issues. For example, to make a gem 53s fbl the graders are going to look long and hard before putting out a five-figure modern rarity. Same for the 70 cent or the 69 buffalo. Its hard to be the first to jump in the pool.

 

 

There will never be a PF70 1953-S FBL Franklin Half Dollar because these proof coins do not exist. Proof coins for 1953 and all of the other years for the Franklin series were produced in Philadelphia, not San Francisco.

[coinman_23885]

Honestly, I wouldn't trust anything Tomaska has said for the past few years. He used to be a very knowledgeable author, and wrote excellent books. He was always an excellent promoter as well, popularizing the FBL and Cameo designations, and convincing the TPGs to list them. However, over the last ten years or so he has transformed into a shameless huckster and TV salesman. I don't recommend you buy his newest book at all.

As a simple test, I challenge anyone to try to sell a coin back to him, and if you can even manage to get an offer out of him at all, be well prepared at how low it will be by comparison to what the coin cost you.

 

I agree, but I don't exactly feel sorry for people who buy overpriced coins. The coins are certified by PCGS/NGC; it shouldn't have taken much research for them to figure out that most of the coins are drastically overpriced. When he is asking $695 for a coin that you can buy on eBay for $150, it should be obvious to anyone who had performed even a minimal amount of research. And don't even get me started on the "Everest coins." Are they nice? Yes. Overpriced? Most definitely (for the most part).

[mkman123]

nice franky! is there a 69 star ultra cameo???

[JIM F.]

nice franky! is there a 69 star ultra cameo???

 

Thank you. I don't know, but if there is I bet mine is nicer!

 

 

 

 

[lehigh96]

Honestly, I wouldn't trust anything Tomaska has said for the past few years. He used to be a very knowledgeable author, and wrote excellent books. He was always an excellent promoter as well, popularizing the FBL and Cameo designations, and convincing the TPGs to list them. However, over the last ten years or so he has transformed into a shameless huckster and TV salesman. I don't recommend you buy his newest book at all.

As a simple test, I challenge anyone to try to sell a coin back to him, and if you can even manage to get an offer out of him at all, be well prepared at how low it will be by comparison to what the coin cost you.

 

I agree, but I don't exactly feel sorry for people who buy overpriced coins. The coins are certified by PCGS/NGC; it shouldn't have taken much research for them to figure out that most of the coins are drastically overpriced. When he is asking $695 for a coin that you can buy on eBay for $150, it should be obvious to anyone who had performed even a minimal amount of research. And don't even get me started on the "Everest coins." Are they nice? Yes. Overpriced? Most definitely (for the most part).

 

I own, or should I say, I am buried in an Everest Coin.

 

[coinman_23885]

Here is my PF-69* Cameo which I presume is the highest these will ever be graded (?)

 

 

With regards to numerical grade, probably. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 69 DCAM/UCAM pop up.

[WoodenJefferson]

UCAM Ultra Cameo will never ever be associated (top tier grading services anyway) with Franklins.

 

DCAM yes, UCAM no.

[coinman_23885]

UCAM Ultra Cameo will never ever be associated (top tier grading services anyway) with Franklins.

 

DCAM yes, UCAM no.

 

NGC uses UCAM (ultra cameo) and PCGS uses DCAM (Deep Cameo) designations respectively.

[Bruceswar]

UCAM Ultra Cameo will never ever be associated (top tier grading services anyway) with Franklins.

 

DCAM yes, UCAM no.

 

NGC uses UCAM (ultra cameo) and PCGS uses DCAM (Deep Cameo) designations respectively.

 

I think what he is saying is PCGS is better than NGC in top pop coins usually, so ofc DCam should be worth more than UCam? Just a thought?

[mkman123]

I have no idea what wooden jefferson is talking about. NGC uses UCAM while PCGS uses DCAM. NGC uses DPL for morgans while PCGS uses DMPL.

 

Also I'd like to say I really like NGC cameo franklins, in fact NGC is more consistent, I've seen cameo franklins holdered in as CAM in pcgs holders and then another one that looks identical not get CAM by pcgs, not very consistent.

[Buffalo Head]

Honestly, I wouldn't trust anything Tomaska has said for the past few years. He used to be a very knowledgeable author, and wrote excellent books. He was always an excellent promoter as well, popularizing the FBL and Cameo designations, and convincing the TPGs to list them. However, over the last ten years or so he has transformed into a shameless huckster and TV salesman. I don't recommend you buy his newest book at all.

As a simple test, I challenge anyone to try to sell a coin back to him, and if you can even manage to get an offer out of him at all, be well prepared at how low it will be by comparison to what the coin cost you.

 

I agree, but I don't exactly feel sorry for people who buy overpriced coins. The coins are certified by PCGS/NGC; it shouldn't have taken much research for them to figure out that most of the coins are drastically overpriced. When he is asking $695 for a coin that you can buy on eBay for $150, it should be obvious to anyone who had performed even a minimal amount of research. And don't even get me started on the "Everest coins." Are they nice? Yes. Overpriced? Most definitely (for the most part).

 

I own, or should I say, I am buried in an Everest Coin.

 

 

I've got to say... This is the most beautiful Franklin I've ever seen!!

[WoodenJefferson]

UCAM Ultra Cameo will never ever be associated (top tier grading services anyway) with Franklins.

 

DCAM yes, UCAM no.

 

NGC uses UCAM (ultra cameo) and PCGS uses DCAM (Deep Cameo) designations respectively.

 

I think what he is saying is PCGS is better than NGC in top pop coins usually, so ofc DCam should be worth more than UCam? Just a thought?

 

Your close, what I was alluding to is that Ultra Cameo is associated with moderns (1969-S and beyond) whereas Deep Cameo can be quickly associated with pre 1969 San Fransisco proof mintings that came out of Philadelphia. It's a perception.

[ultra-crepidarian]

NGC has graded seven 1957 50C coins as PF69* Cameo and three 1957 50C coins as PF69 Ultra Cameo. Your coin is a top 10 coin for the date but the three PF69 Ultra Cameo coins would be considered a higher grade. See the NGC Coin Explorer for this coin.

 

In this series, NGC generally gives the star for cameo effect. A PF 69* Cameo would be a coin that failed to meet the grader's Ultra Cameo standards on BOTH the obverse and reverse side of the coin.

 

Neither PCGS or NGC has graded any Franklin half as a 70 (and I don't expect to see one so graded - but I would never say NEVER). The first half-dollars to be graded as a 70 were 1964 Kennedy Half dollars. To date, PCGS has graded twenty-nine 1964 Kennedy coins as PR70.