Think it will cross?

[Raybo55]

 

 

 

 

Thanks in advance,

Ray

[e1cnr]

Are those die clashes in the fields? or scratches?

[SKAGS]

XF-details. Looks like an old rough cleaning. Like how it is toned. If what looks like scratchs is nothing then XF-40.

[Raybo55]

XF-details. Looks like an old rough cleaning. Like how it is toned. If what looks like scratchs is nothing then XF-40.

 

I really like how some of these people talk about something they know very little about. No soup for you skags!

[physics-fan3.14]

Definitely cleaned and retoned. I've seen worse in graded holders, but I don't agree with that. I'd call it EF-details.

[Raybo55]

Are those die clashes in the fields? or scratches?

 

Not sure e1, i'll take a better look tomorrow (it's in the box and i'm pretty sure they're not scratches) and let you know.

[$ilverHawk]

Why would you want to crossover? Unless you are building a Registry set no need to cross. If you are building a Registry set, then submitting for a crossover is a roll of the dice. I've seen coins that look better than this body bagged and coins that aren't as nice get a no problem grade.

 

IMHO this is a solid AU coin that was cleaned in the past and then retoned over the years. The indications of an old cleaning are still very evident. I don't think you would get a crossover no problem grade.

 

Carl

[FishyOne]

You can't cross it at NGC, they only accept PCGS graded coins for crossover.

 

Are you asking if it will cross at PCGS?

 

If cracked and submitted raw to NGC, my gut feeling is it will grade problem-free. It may be slightly netted down for the old cleaning.

[Raybo55]

Why would you want to crossover? Unless you are building a Registry set no need to cross. If you are building a Registry set, then submitting for a crossover is a roll of the dice. I've seen coins that look better than this body bagged and coins that aren't as nice get a no problem grade.

 

IMHO this is a solid AU coin that was cleaned in the past and then retoned over the years. The indications of an old cleaning are still very evident. I don't think you would get a crossover no problem grade.

 

Carl

 

Carl,

 

Why do you think it has been cleaned? Is it my imaging (it could be, i'm not that good at it ) or do you see some other indication?

 

Heck! More than one person thought this coin was cleaned but came back with a "solid" grade.

 

 

 

Thanks again,

Ray

 

[Raybo55]

You can't cross it at NGC, they only accept PCGS graded coins for crossover.

 

Are you asking if it will cross at PCGS?

 

If cracked and submitted raw to NGC, my gut feeling is it will grade problem-free. It may be slightly netted down for the old cleaning.

 

WRONG!

[e1cnr]

I have problems telling mid AU from cleaned at times, so usually I pass on making decisions and feel I have sold some nice raw AU that I felt could have been cleaned so didn't waste time and submission cost.

 

 

I think cracking before submission may be better chance than crossover attempt.

[$ilverHawk]

Ray,

 

Compare the coloration/toning of the Bust Quarter and the Bust Half. Much more contrast in the Bust Half especially in front of Liberty and above and to the left of the Eagle. Those fields appear lighter due to the Bust Half being wiped/cleaned more recently. If it was just abrasive circulation wear from the time these coins were in circulation, those areas should have retoned more by now.

 

Additionally, look closely at the marks in the fields of both coins. The Bust Quarter shows random lines and marks. The Bust Half shows some random marks but also rub marks, areas where there are no indentations but the surface area is lighter in coloration. That is most likely the result of wiping the coin with a cloth which was a very common practice among old time collectors.

 

I firmly believe that a lot of these type coins have been cleaned in one way or another. That includes your Bust Quarter example. It's just that some have retoned in a way that minimizes an old cleaning and are therefore market acceptable.

 

And as I said in my first post, submitting to NGC or PCGS is a roll of the dice. They may find your Bust Half market acceptable. Good luck.

 

Carl

 

 

 

 

 

 

[coinman_23885]

It looks cleaned to me; this coin is a prime example of one of the reasons that I am skeptical of newer ANACS coins.

[Raybo55]

I think I just might have to reimage the CBH, I did a better job with the CBQ.

 

I know it's hard to judge from images...........when they are not that good.

Hey, look on eBay!

[Raybo55]

I'm second guessing my post now...........the images do look like !

I will grab the coin out of my box and reimage it tomorrow, sorry i'm so frustrated.

[FishyOne]

You can't cross it at NGC, they only accept PCGS graded coins for crossover.

 

Are you asking if it will cross at PCGS?

 

If cracked and submitted raw to NGC, my gut feeling is it will grade problem-free. It may be slightly netted down for the old cleaning.

 

WRONG!

 

What do you mean? NGC will not cross it. They only accept PCGS coins for cross. If you send it to NGC in the slab? They crack it out and may return it in a problem slab.

[coinman_23885]

You can't cross it at NGC, they only accept PCGS graded coins for crossover.

 

Are you asking if it will cross at PCGS?

 

If cracked and submitted raw to NGC, my gut feeling is it will grade problem-free. It may be slightly netted down for the old cleaning.

 

WRONG!

 

What do you mean? NGC will not cross it. They only accept PCGS coins for cross. If you send it to NGC in the slab? They crack it out and may return it in a problem slab.

 

Brad is absolutely right on this. Only PCGS certified coins are accepted for crossover submissions in their original holder; all others must be cracked out ahead of time or the submitter must sign a form authorizing NGC to crack the coin out BEFORE it is graded. This is the reason why I generally would not send a crossover submission to NGC. Even though I have the capability to submit coins through my ANA membership, this is the reason that I haven't joined NGC's Collector's Club to enjoy a discount on submissions (most of the coins I submit would be crossover certified coins from non-PCGS TPGs).

[coinman_23885]

Regarding the net grading, NGC and PCGS did this before details grading rather than body bagging certain coins, but now with the details grading, I think they are less forgiving. I think the coin will come back in a details slab (unless you specify that it must cross to a problem free holder in which case you will get back the ANACS slab).

[Mark T]

The details of the coin would be an easy cross however the surface of the coin does look somewhat suspicious. My first thought, the coin was lightly cleaned long ago and has retoned. However I don’t see anything definitive that the coin was cleaned. I also have seen coins like this in problem free holders. There really is no reason to cross it over , however if you decided to go that route do not crack it out.

 

 

[Raybo55]

The CBH is solid, my images must suck!

 

How anyone can see any sign of cleaning on this coin just blows my mind!

There have been so many times that I have read on these forums.........."we can't grade by images"............Except MINE!

Are my images that good or that bad?

 

I'll get back to all of you this weekend..................

 

Thanks again,

Ray

[Raybo55]

You can't cross it at NGC, they only accept PCGS graded coins for crossover.

 

Are you asking if it will cross at PCGS?

 

If cracked and submitted raw to NGC, my gut feeling is it will grade problem-free. It may be slightly netted down for the old cleaning.

 

WRONG!

 

What do you mean? NGC will not cross it. They only accept PCGS coins for cross. If you send it to NGC in the slab? They crack it out and may return it in a problem slab.

 

Brad is absolutely right on this. Only PCGS certified coins are accepted for crossover submissions in their original holder; all others must be cracked out ahead of time or the submitter must sign a form authorizing NGC to crack the coin out BEFORE it is graded. This is the reason why I generally would not send a crossover submission to NGC. Even though I have the capability to submit coins through my ANA membership, this is the reason that I haven't joined NGC's Collector's Club to enjoy a discount on submissions (most of the coins I submit would be crossover certified coins from non-PCGS TPGs).

 

I would let them release the crackin!

I'm that confident............or stupid that I would not want it back in the same holder!

 

Ray

[coinman_23885]

Are my images that good or that bad?

Ray

 

Without seeing this coin in hand, it is difficult to tell.

[Raybo55]

Are my images that good or that bad?

Ray

 

Without seeing this coin in hand, it is difficult to tell.

 

 

I know!

 

[cpm9ball]

Please don't be offended, Ray, but you've asked for opinions and some of the people haven't agreed with you, but that is no reason to get irritated by their comments.

 

Just my 1-1/2 cents worth.

 

Chris

[James_OldeTowne]

Cross to whom?

 

Based on the images as depicted, it will not cross to PCGS or NGC at that grade. It is likely to be net-graded to EF-45, or possibly 50 on a loose and happy day.

[e1cnr]

Here is why I think it may be cleaned

 

yellow lines are visible lines in picture

- I am not sure if they are die clash, small nick, scratch, harder gouge from cleaning

 

light brown 3 circled areas are lighter than rest of coin

- frequently when lighter area is just in fiels, coin has been scrubbed/cleaned years ago

- toning usually does not just stop after lettering on periphery

 

 

I still do not know if old cleaning or not, but would not be surprised if came back in details slab for cleaning

 

[Bruceswar]

I will play odd man out and say it crosses at 53