old wayte raymond album fact or fiction

[copper toning]

I collect toned coins almost exclusively and I have been entertaining the thought of buying a few old albums.

 

Curious about the myth that these albums truely tone coins.

 

Any experience, advice, and comments?

 

Where should I get them and what should I pay?

[e1cnr]

they undoubtedly tone coins -Meghrig bought them out / their inventory made more and still have new ones for sale at their website. Some claim the old folders have lost all toning capability (?), not sure I agree

 

some tone pretty, some tone ugly

 

do you have the patience to wait 50 years for the results? I don't, I try to find collections that have already been in the holders for 50 years

[WoodenJefferson]

I have read claims that the older boards from the 60's on back have all but gassed out the properties that used to tone silver coins, not quite sure that is completely true, but makes sense.

 

Note: I once bought a Wayte Raymond board that had 6 or 7 Franklin half dollars in it, I sold them years later as silver melt because the rims were black and porous. Must have been stored in too much humidity and the coins were ruined, so not is all peaches with these albums.

[James_OldeTowne]

I have read claims that the older boards from the 60's on back have all but gassed out the properties that used to tone silver coins, not quite sure that is completely true, but makes sense.

It may be true of some albums; it is definitely NOT true of all the old albums. Not at all.

 

And, I can prove it .

[Oldtrader3]

Usually works with new Waite Raymond album pages and accelerated and higher ambient temperatures ( 15-20 C).

[e1cnr]

I wouldn't really recommend them for copper

 

the bad to good ratio is just too high

and seems to turn RD to RB or BR

 

unless you are a copper guy that likes brown toned

[James_OldeTowne]

Usually works with new Waite Raymond album pages and accelerated and higher ambient temperatures ( 15-20 C).

Great point. The coins I have in albums are in the uppermost shelf of the closet upstairs. That room is usually around 75 degrees in winter, and significantly warmer in the summer. However, this ought not to be considered "AT" since those are normal ambient temperatures, and not in the "cookie bake" range.

 

I used to use the top of the water heater, but concluded that it was too warm a range to fall into what is considered "natural tone".

 

I know several esteemed collectors who use a sunny windowsill and have gotten amazing results, but haven't done that myself, since again, that's not necessarily a "natural tone" temperature range.

[TonerGuy]

Yes WR or Mehrig albums can still tone coins but only if you have new boards that havent been used. And depending on temp and humidity it can occur much faster than 50 yrs.

 

But as others have pointed out some coins will tone ugly and some nice... Its hit or miss.

[James_OldeTowne]

Yes WR or Mehrig albums can still tone coins but only if you have new boards that havent been used.

All of mine except a set of "commemorative half-dollars" are used... and still induce toning.

[TonerGuy]

So consider yourself lucky... My advice is to purchase new boards. If someone else wants to take a chance on a old used board - good luck. Thats hit or miss...

 

I think he stands a better chance with new boards.

[RWB]

I've used the old dollar size ones with plastic slides for toning cats. Works well once you get the cat into the small hole.

[nk1nk]

I've used the old dollar size ones with plastic slides for toning cats. Works well once you get the cat into the small hole.

 

Yep, I only had this one in for two years. I would consider it a monster toner.

 

Nick

 

[DWLange]

The Raymond/Meghrig albums were good for toning coins when they were new, but the idea that this still works with 60-70 year old pages is mostly a myth.

 

I wrote about my experience with this awhile back: http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=2160&USA-Coin-Album

[James_OldeTowne]

The Raymond/Meghrig albums were good for toning coins when they were new, but the idea that this still works with 60-70 year old pages is mostly a myth.

 

I wrote about my experience with this awhile back: http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=2160&USA-Coin-Album

David, I have read this article at least a couple of times over the past few years, and my experience is definitely not the same as yours, given that there may be variables at play. I have found that old albums do indeed still tone coins, although as I've mentioned elsewhere, I do keep mine in the warmest location of my home. The temperature is certainly well within tolerable norms, but "warmer" than the usual 70 - 75 degrees that most homes probably stay at.

 

Indeed, right now during winter when it is typically (in Missouri) anywhere from 20 to 40 degrees outside, the closet where my albums are stored is 75 degrees or so. And in the summer, I have registered as high as near 120! That, however, occurs only when I fail to turn on the A/C upstairs. Normally, that closet is 90 or so in summer, as I prefer not to cool space that is basically unused.

 

Incidentally, I do agree that the coin area closest to the edge of the page(s) receive the best toning.

[bochiman]

The Raymond/Meghrig albums were good for toning coins when they were new, but the idea that this still works with 60-70 year old pages is mostly a myth.

 

I wrote about my experience with this awhile back: http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=2160&USA-Coin-Album

David, I have read this article at least a couple of times over the past few years, and my experience is definitely not the same as yours, given that there may be variables at play. I have found that old albums do indeed still tone coins, although as I've mentioned elsewhere, I do keep mine in the warmest location of my home. The temperature is certainly well within tolerable norms, but "warmer" than the usual 70 - 75 degrees that most homes probably stay at.

 

Indeed, right now during winter when it is typically (in Missouri) anywhere from 20 to 40 degrees outside, the closet where my albums are stored is 75 degrees or so. And in the summer, I have registered as high as near 120! That, however, occurs only when I fail to turn on the A/C upstairs. Normally, that closet is 90 or so in summer, as I prefer not to cool space that is basically unused.

 

Incidentally, I do agree that the coin area closest to the edge of the page(s) receive the best toning.

 

 

Do let us know when your coins finally are allowed to come out of the closet...maybe we will see a rainbow flag or two

[e1cnr]

DWLange, I read your article and have a couple problems with this ->

 

So tired did I become of hearing about the benefits of Raymond albums in toning coins that I finally decided to put this theory to a test. About 20 years ago I placed a fresh, white 1982-D George Washington silver half dollar into a Raymond album page for commemorative halves to observe whatever reaction would occur. This coin was as purchased from the U. S. Mint in 1982 and had never been treated in any way, aside from removing it from its original packaging. The album holding my test coin was then placed in the appropriate location within my album collection under normal, indoor environmental conditions. It took more than five years for even the slightest suggestion of toning to appear, and after 20 years this coin has only a narrow halo of color around its borders. I could have achieved the same effect by simply placing the coin in a stapled 2x2 holder! The vibrant, multicolor toning which so many buyers of old albums are anticipating is nowhere in sight.

 

 

 

you have a sample size of 1 1982-D coin

 

 

1- location of coin in album is important - edge and corner coins tone better

2- luster and flow lines increases toning ability

3- age of coin would suggest less impurities and other stuff beside silver and copper

4- size of coin - dimes and quarters do better than halves

 

If you have looked at sets that have been in the album for 50+ years you will see many variations and some locations are 'hotter' than others

[James_OldeTowne]

It should also be noted that many of the coins that have amazing tone were able to do so only because they were cleaned first, prior to placement in the albums. I can state with certainty that "fresh coins", as in those popped right out of the mint packaging, or those retrieved from pocket change, are highly resistant to toning.

 

I have some album-ed coins that were cleaned (or dipped), and have produced terrific results.

 

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if a 1982 half that had nothing done to it were to change at a glacial pace. I'd expect that.

 

Incidentally, I am obviously not foolish enough to buy coins and clean them myself. Cleaned coins that I have in the albums were already so when I bought them.

[DWLange]

James raises an important point: Many of the most vibrantly toned coins retrieved from albums were cleaned in some manner prior to being placed in the albums. This was done quite commonly with collections assembled in the 1930-70s, before grading services existed to discriminate against such pieces.

 

I don't want to condemn the coins from any particular collection, but several well publicized "name" sales included coins that were superficially quite pretty but could be slabbed only under Details grading. These were stored in Raymond National albums or their Meghrig American equivalents.

 

Only very experienced collectors and dealers who also possess a natural talent for reading coins can distinguish between original, or "first generation," toning and that which occurred subsequent to a cleaning.

[shorecoll]

I have a big stack of boards in storage, I actually don't know if they're new or used...guess I need to look.

[DWLange]

I have a big stack of boards in storage, I actually don't know if they're new or used...guess I need to look.

 

I collect all old coin boards and albums, so I'd be curious to know what you find.