Pricing Coins for a Show - Some Obversations

[Houston Investor]

I have taken tables at shows since 1990. It has been an ongoing educational and evolving process.

 

I have about 1000 items of coins and currency in my inventory so putting a price sticker on every coin is impossible considering prices are constantly changing. I maintain all this in an excel spreadsheet with columns (outside of description, etc) Sell (Market Retail), Cost, and Bid or Bullion Value where applicable. I also have a column based on a dealer price list like L&C to see what others are selling coins I have in my inventory for. Sell may be a function of CW Trends, an online Priceguide, Krause Catalog Value (Currency, World Coins), or a percentage above Bid or BV. I try to have my laptop at shows, tethered to the table. In this way I can access all of my data on an inventory item to be in the best negotiating position and record inventory additions and deletions throughout the show.

 

All of my material has a cost code sticker on the back. I do not usually have price stickers on the front of a coin for the following reasons:

* Values are always changing

* People who are interested in the coin usually want to look first at the coin, then ask the price. Be wary of people who ask a price before they even look. I have found these people to be bargain shoppers or dealers and not that serious of a buyer; consequently a waste of my time.

* Some buyers expect a qoute of your best price, others want to haggle. Sometimes I play this based on how I evaluate the buyer.

* If no one is asking about the price of your coins it means the people coming into the show don't have any money. At that point I may put up my sign "Cash Paid for Coins and Currency."

* Putting prices on the front of the coin holder alerts other dealers as to what you want for your coins, especially ones you may be competing with them on. They will then undercut you even sometimes if taking a loss. It also may alert them where you are relative to bid or bullion value.

* What I may take for a coin changes with the show as goals and cash flow change. Its not good to put a pie in the sky price sticker on a coin which may scare away a buyer when you might take less.

 

I keep everything in my glass display cases and do not allow anyone to look at more items at once than I am comfy with. People will try to steal or rip you and one has to be vigilant at all times. I limit the number of items in any browse box in the case so someone looking at that will not sit there a long time going thru it and then not buying anything. If they are a serious buyer, I may bring additional material I have in a locked briefcase. Most of my material is slabbed coins or graded currency in addition to stacks of World Banknotes (non TPG graded).

 

Difficult People You May Run Into:

* The Snobbish Dealer who asks "How much are all your gold coins?" Response: "Whatever they add up to; which one would like to see first?" Then get out a tally sheet if he is serious.

* The Tirekicker who asks *Where are you on your commems?" Response: "Prices vary, which one do you want to see first." Then if he is serious I have no problem doing a tally sheet.

* The Prober who is probably too lazy to look at the CDN: "What is your price between Bid and Ask on that coin." I simply ignore this and simply quote him my best price irregardless where it is relative to the CDN. If he says something unpleasant I simply advise him to shop around.

* The Indecisive Newbie who wants to take the item from your table to have another dealer look at. I don't allow items to leave my table unless purchased. Usually in these instances too, the dealer is looking to make a commission so you will be undercut on your sale. IMO these people aren't worth fooling with.

* The Control Tirekicker (buying for his ebay store) who says "Let me see all of your graded notes." Since I am not interested in selling to him for less than I am asking in mine I will show them to him one at a time to see if he is even for real. I control my inventory, not them. Again security is important and you should not put more material out on the table with a strange buyer than your comfy with. An exception was a serious world bank note buyer who went thru stacks of notes I put for him to see one stack at a time. As he selected notes to buy, I kept a tally sheet and he paid the result before I put out another stack for him to look at. It was a really great deal for me and he was at my table a couple of hours during a really slow show.

 

[MarkFeld]

All of my material has a cost code sticker on the back. I do not usually have price stickers on the front of a coin for the following reasons:

* Values are always changing

* People who are interested in the coin usually want to look first at the coin, then ask the price. Be wary of people who ask a price before they don't even look. I have found these people to be bargain shoppers or dealers and not that serious of a buyer; consequently a waste of my time...

 

Many of the coins I deal in, apparently don't have the price fluctuations that much of your inventory does.

 

I prefer to be quoted a price before I view the coin, and it has nothing to do with being a "bargain basement shopper". In many cases - such as when the price is very high - knowing the asking price will save time and trouble for both the seller and the buyer. Also, if the buyer views the coin and then asks for a price, the seller is more likely to think or know the other party is interested and might quote a higher price than he otherwise would have.

 

* If no one is asking about the price of your coins it means the people coming into the show don't have any money...."

 

OR, that they don't have interest in the coins.

 

 

[Houston Investor]

I prefer to view the coin before I ask the price and anlayze where it falls in the grade range and decide if its anything I want to purchase period. Then when the seller quotes the price I may take it at that, make a counter offer, or simply thank him and walk away. I don't want to make a hasty choice because of a good price, then regret a bad buy later on.

[MarkFeld]

I prefer to view the coin before I ask the price and anlayze where it falls in the grade range and decide if its anything I want to purchase period. Then when the seller quotes the price I may take it at that, make a counter offer, or simply thank him and walk away. I don't want to make a hasty choice because of a good price, then regret a bad buy later on.

 

That makes plenty of sense. But it doesn't mean that those who prefer a price quote first are necessarily looking for bargains.

[James_OldeTowne]

I used to use many of the tactics discussed in the OP, but time came when having all these rules and scenarios to abide by came to be too much hassle. I've simplified almost to the point of being Spartan.

 

I slap my price on the front of each and every coin in big numerals, period.

 

With no fancy codes, I keep it simple... retail customers can expect 5% negotiating room, and dealers can expect 10%. 15% is my absolute rock-bottom price, as that's usually a couple of dollars over my cost.

 

This way, even though I do keep a full inventory spreadsheet with me always (printed or on the laptop), I need not refer to it, as I know my margins of simply 5%, 10%, 15%.

 

 

[Houston Investor]

Yes everyone has their own thing and preferences / opinions. At the very least I have the cost code on the back of the holder and can quote a price quickly and decisively even if I dont have the spreadsheet. There are many who will make a counteroffer irregardless of how low I go.

 

Sort of like football coaches who prefer a certain stye of offense like the spread, air-raid, one back, pro style, etc.

 

I know what is comfy for me and usually what to expect from certain people. Since my inventory is diversified I get exposure to different types of collectors / dealers. I did not put this thread up in expectation of agreement from all parties but mainly just for fun and information.

[TonerGuy]

I prefer to be quoted a price before I view the coin, and it has nothing to do with being a "bargain basement shopper". In many cases - such as when the price is very high - knowing the asking price will save time and trouble for both the seller and the buyer. Also, if the buyer views the coin and then asks for a price, the seller is more likely to think or know the other party is interested and might quote a higher price than he otherwise would have.

 

+1

 

I prefer dealers that arent too lazy to put a price sticker on the front of the slab...not because Im looking for a bargain but it gives me an idea if the dealer is overpricing his goods. And it saves me time as well.

 

For the love of god, every other retail establishment puts prices on their wares why coin cant dealers follow this simple premise. How annoying would it be to shop for groceries and not know the price until you checked out or had to ask someone that worked there.

[Houston Investor]

Well I do have price tags on on my cheap world currency and cupro nickel junk box material under $10 (ourside of my normal inventory) as I don't itemize that stuff in the computer. Its in a bulk inventory class of its very own. I have a garbage can full of it in my garage. Losts of cupro nickel world proof sets with animals and stuff. Who says being a coin dealer is about having just big ticket coins.

 

At some venues (gun shows) I simply leave most of the good stuff in the bank box, pile up the junk like its treasure, sprinkle in a few silver coins and let them just dig for what they want. I find this works best at the gun shows where the coins partially bury some old model RR rolling stock. The only rule: They are not allowed to stack the coins they are examining on a book or anything else below my line of sight. I do have some slabbed coins in an NGC box in my briefcase in the event someone wants something nice. These are usually people I have sold to before at that particular show.

 

I also have a display inside one of my cases I use sometimes that looks like a box of bills about $100 in ones with a hundred dollar bill on top (looks like a huge stack of hundreds). Its in the middle of a display that says "Cash paid for coins and currency." My buying cash is in my pocket on a money clip. Next to it is a 45 WW2 pistol with some rounds laying around (gun show). I have shot it a few times at the shooting range and it has a heck of a kick.

[copper toning]

I want to know the price before I see a coin as to not waste either of our time. I know to expect around 10% wiggle room if I am not in that range why bother. I do not want to have to ask you may have a dozen coins I like. I ask that much and we are not there we are just going to get pissy.

 

I must say you sound like you do not even like most of you potential customers You must be labeling us with in a minute or two. I have been with dealers like that before and it is usually obvious not only to who you are dealing with, but who is at the table waiting to be dealt with. I would just walk.

[copper toning]

Not sure about the all knowing. Just stated past experience.

 

If something I stated was wrong let me know. No need to delete the nasty comment. I can take it.

 

You were right I should. And have.

[coinman_23885]

* People who are interested in the coin usually want to look first at the coin, then ask the price. Be wary of people who ask a price before they even look. I have found these people to be bargain shoppers or dealers and not that serious of a buyer; consequently a waste of my time.

* Some buyers expect a qoute of your best price, others want to haggle. Sometimes I play this based on how I evaluate the buyer.

 

The fact that you use your evaluation of the buyer as a pricing tool is precisely the reason that some people (such as myself) will ask about the price of a coin before asking to see it or before discussing the particular coin(s) in depth. If someone demonstrates a lot of enthusiasm and knowledge about a particular coin, aren't you more likely to quote them a higher price than someone who passively walks up and asks the price of a coin (assuming that they are either very knowledgeable or are specifically researching and seeking this particular coin)? Why shouldn't the buyer want to use every advantage that he or she has in obtaining a fair price? Also, if the prices are excessively high, then why would I want to waste your time or mine?

 

 

* If no one is asking about the price of your coins it means the people coming into the show don't have any money.

 

It could also mean that your prices are unreasonable, although in fairness I have never been to your tables so I don't know how fair your prices are. It's just a thought.

[Raisethis2]

From a buyers perspective I like to see prices on 2X2's with raw coins but priced slabs always seem to demand premiums well beyond Grey Sheet bid so I prefer the mystery. When I ask to see a coin it's because it's caught my eye or fills a need. I never mess around. If I ask to see it there's a reason.

 

I expect a Dealer to provide about 10% under the price written but I usually know what the coins value is to me before we discuss price. When a Dealer consults the Grey Sheet to give me a price or if he has a code to decipher, that demonstrates to me that he want's to be fair to us both. I like fair.

 

I understand the security concerns completely. There are so many people who cannot be trusted you must be on guard. I don't even like carrying my pocket piece to a show, it makes me feel a little creepy but I know I'm not the reason Dealers have to be wary. If a Dealer wants to watch my every move I'm never offended. In turn, I like to be sensible and never touch a Dealers inventory without permission. I see others grab things without asking a lot and I just back away at their utter rudeness.

 

 

[ldhair]

As a buyer at shows, the dealer needs to be displaying a nice group of coins, with prices, for me to slow down and take a longer look. I understand some dealers don't wish to show prices but it sure slows things down. When I see something really cool but have to ask for a price, I may just walk on. If there is time, I come back and ask.

[noow]

No offense, but the OP sounds like a "tough guy" dealer that I would not do business with.

 

I like to see prices on coins- it saves time and I know what the dealer wants for it.

[Houston Investor]

I could care less if the guy has the coin priced or not on the holder as long as he can give a quick quote. The reality is that coin prices are changing every week if not daily and considering its the electronic age dealers with a large quantity of items for the most part do not fool with constantly changing paper tags when this can be done more efficiently electronically.

 

What matters to me is the coin and where it falls in the grade range. Then is the price something I can work with in selling the coin to make plan ROI. If someone is not going to buy from me bc I don't have a price tag on the coin I am skeptical they would buy it anyway. This is my opinion as someone who's been there having taken tables at many shows over the years. I will price bulk material like a roll of 90% Silver halves I dumped out in my glass display case with a sign like "BV + 5%." In addition, any junk box material I may have out under $10 is also priced with the intent I may shave off 10-20% depending on how they bulk it up.

 

At a recent show, I had probably close to 100 Modern World Gold Isues priced at a percentage over spot which was changing daily. Do manual price tags on these? No way.

[coinman_23885]

As a buyer at shows, the dealer needs to be displaying a nice group of coins, with prices, for me to slow down and take a longer look. I understand some dealers don't wish to show prices but it sure slows things down. When I see something really cool but have to ask for a price, I may just walk on. If there is time, I come back and ask.

 

+1 There are usually so many tables, and not enough time. I like to be able to move through quickly and focus my times on tables that I believe will result in fruitful searches.

[Walkerfan]

Prices are usually negotiable, anyway, so as long as the dealers can reference the prices that I need in a reasonable amount of time after my request; I don't care whether prices are displayed or not.

[copper toning]

I do not think we are talking about pricing bullion. Others coins do not change that quickly. Bullion buyers know the market and realize you can pull that price in seconds.

 

But hey if it works for carry on.

[copper toning]

When buying do you make an offer 1st or do you have the client tell you what they want?

[Walkerfan]

When buying do you make an offer 1st or do you have the client tell you what they want?

 

In my years of experience dealers always reveal their prices first, which is generally buffered with a little room. The buyer will usually counter and if it is a reasonable offer then the dealer will accept it.

[copper toning]

When buying do you make an offer 1st or do you have the client tell you what they want?

 

In my years of experience dealers always reveal their prices first, which is generally buffered with a little room. The buyer will usually counter and if it is a reasonable offer then the dealer will accept it.

 

Sorry I was asking houston as a dealer buying from a collector.

[Walkerfan]

When buying do you make an offer 1st or do you have the client tell you what they want?

 

In my years of experience dealers always reveal their prices first, which is generally buffered with a little room. The buyer will usually counter and if it is a reasonable offer then the dealer will accept it.

 

Sorry I was asking houston as a dealer buying from a collector.

 

MY Bad!

[Houston Investor]

To answer your question.

 

Usually when buying, after examining the material, I simply make an offer. I dont expect sellers bringing material to my table to quote a price but may ask them what they want for it. Sometimes I will lay the money on the table when making my offer. If they are offering me something I have no interest in I will simply direct them to another dealer who is the high buyer for that material. I try to look at everything they may be offering before making any decision on what to buy or an offer. Why are they selling? Are they unloading trash or something which would not cross?

 

In other cases the seller may simply say what they want for the coin. This is usually a collector who is a specialist in that area and knows the pricing. In other situations, a big dealer may send an assistant shoping coins around the floor, I will look at the coins and select some I am interested in and then the assistant will text him for the price. I remember a situation like this circa 1990 when the dealer sent his wife around the bourse with a box of slabbed coins and a walkie talkie to flip some stuff. Now they would just text each other.

 

One needs to be careful what they pay in these instances as they could get buried in stuff tough to sell for any kind of decent profit; just bc they are bringing coins to my table does not mean its a good deal. I certainly don't want to be the dumping ground for someone's trash. The most dangerous situation is having a heavyweight trying to pick off my stuff for cheap (coming to my table to play offense) while trying to get me to buy his stuff he brought to the table. This is usually big gun national dealers / crackout players and when they see its not going to work with me they will then leave me alone.

[Oldtrader3]

ROI on coins? Good luck with that! I would guess that you have not been around long enough to know about averaging and market fluctuation. Since you can fully prognosticate a buyer's will-pay value to you by looking them over and just by this person's appearance!

[Houston Investor]

ROI on coins? Good luck with that! I would guess that you have not been around long enough to know about averaging and market fluctuation. Since you can fully prognosticate a buyer's will-pay value to you by looking them over and just by this person's appearance!

 

I have been around awhile so your assumption about me (being inexperienced) is incorrect. ROI means Return on Investment and for me this is after Variable and Fixed Expenses of operating the business. Essentially annual business net income / average inventory. My target minimum ROI is 15% and hopefully market direction supports that. If its exceeds this thats great. I don't know what your reading into my posts, but I don't prognosticate anything or judge anyone by their appearance nor am I clairvoyant. If someone in here is insinuating that then I have to wonder about their bias towards me or what they are smoking. My reaction to people at a show or anywhere else is based on their behavior not appearance. My ROI target is based on my performance as a businessman buying and selling coins not necessarily market fluctation.

 

Yes markets fluctuate unfavorably and this can be a non controllable factor especially with bullion related material or numismatic coins taking a bid hit. However, I am very difersified (doing both coins and currency) so a hit in one area is easily offset by a huge win in another especially from a good deal or strong retail sale.

[Oldtrader3]

FWIW, I have an MBA and have found little or nothing that I learned then or did after that really had much bearing on coin collecting. Good luck to you anyway! ROI is a rear view mirror! Cost of Capital and opportunity costs means that you are not making anything at 15%.

[Houston Investor]

I have an MS in Accounting, am a Financial Manager for a worldwide Engineering Tech co and have taught accounting classes at a nearby college. My coin business is not my only source of income but at some point when the accounting career has seen its day (retirement) I will still be involved in my coin activities.

 

Yes the coin world is a far cry from the financial one. However, I keep track of how my coin business is doing especially in relation to Net Income for the period vs Average Inventory. The 15% is just a minimum, especially in this economy and I certainly agree ROI is a rear mirror view, one never knows whats really ahead in the economy. It takes people who will buy the coins and coins are not a high demand thing like food, lodging, or entertainment.

 

Warren Buffet had an article in Fortune about how stocks are a better investment than gold. Great read, but I have no plan to cash out and go into stocks. His principal thesis is that gold does not produce anything (or pay dividends) like say an Exxon. I will just keep on slodding along and churning my inventory.

[JVC]

I have a rookie question. Why are there different spreads for collectors and dealers for the purchase price of a coin?

[MarkFeld]

I have a rookie question. Why are there different spreads for collectors and dealers for the purchase price of a coin?

 

Such spreads are not always the case. However, often, dealer to dealer transactions involve more coins and/or are much quicker and easier, with no return privileges, etc..