How do overdates occur?

[jtryka]

This arises part from the new year, but also since I have been looking at bust halves which have more than their share of overdates. How do these things happen? Do the die makers wake up one day and forget that the year changed? Or are they just trying to make the best of the situation when there were extra dies left over from another year?

[Hoot]

Primarily from the economy of recycling a die that is otherwise not worn out. Polish the die a bit then repunch the date. It mattered little in the early history of this country, as there were no die attributors about to make a big deal out of it.

 

Hoot

[jtryka]

That makes sense for many early coins, but what about the 1942/1 dime? Is the same true?

[cladking]

Most of the 20th century overdates are actually double dies made from hubs of two different years. In fact, I believe this applies to all of the 20th century overdates.

[GDJMSP]

Other than the 1901-S $5 1 over 0 and the 1909 $20 9 over 8 the only confirmed overdates I am aware of occured during war years. The 1942 and 1942-D 2-over-1 dimes - the 1943 3-over-2 nickel - 1918-D 8-over-7 nickel & the 1918-S 8-over-7 SL quarter.

 

As cladking stated this mistake usually took place during the hubbing process.The hubbing process consist of steel hubs which are pressed against bars of steel in hydraulic presses to create the desired designs in that steel bar face. It invariably requires multiple pressings of the hub into the die to built the proper design with the correct depth and relief. However, when the hub is pressed into the die steel, the die steel hardens due to a molecular effect known as "work hardening". The die steel is therefore softened by an annealing process in which the steel is heated to a cherry red color. It is then permitted to cool very slowly, relaxing the molecules of the steel.

 

When cool, the soften die is brought back to the hubbing room where the hub is placed against the die and it is hydraulically pressed again. This operation would continue for another 3-5 times. On rare occasions, usually during the end of the year when production of dies for the next year has started, it has been possible for mix-ups to happen. A hub with one date is used to strike a die. That die is sent for annealing. When it comes back for another impression from the hub, it is accidentally struck by a hub with the next year's date on it. The die will then have two dates on it. And since it mostly seemed to occur during war years it is thought to be due to a breakdown in quality control with key employees being away.

 

did not mention and should have - I am referring to 20th century only

[nwcs]

Overdating can happen for a variety of reasons. Most of the time it seems to be to save time and money, and was very expertly done at times. But it can happen when an emergency rises or when there just isn't much time. Like what would happen if the new year arrived and Phil. hasn't sent out new dies?

 

They'd have to rework the old ones to keep the mint employees busy and the money supply stable. Especially if they were feeding a rapidly growing economy. Dies were very expensive to make and if the demand were such, it would seem easier to redate a die (causing an overdate) than wait for new dies. Saves money, too, for the bosses at the time to get nice big bonuses... Ahh, times haven't changed!

 

Neil

[jtryka]

Thanks guys I have learned a lot from this. Keep it up!

[bigtonydallas]

One exception to being a war year is the 1914/3 Bufalo 5 cent.

[GDJMSP]

Good point - I missed one.

[prooflike]

Very informative, thanks!