• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Kinda a neat find at the FUN Show....guess the grade sorta lol

Started by kryptonitecomics,

32 posts in this topic

kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

Posted
Posted

Well the coin is raw so it's not really a guess the grade in the normal sense so if you want to tell me how you grade the coin then jump right in lol

 

After making my way around the floor dozens of times over a two day period I was ready to make my exit as it was late in the day and the show was going to close in about 30 minutes time. I still had some cash in my pocket and I was really just hunting for coins I could sell on Ebay as part of my normal business. In the back of my mind I was thinking it wouldn't be a bad idea to pick up some raw coins as my NGC membership expires in February so I wanted to have some raw coins in the pipline for when I re-uped and got my free grading certificate. Seeing how I had been successful finding a really killer raw toned CC Morgan the first day of the show...and knowing that toned Morgans are my specialty I decided to scour the floor to see if I could pick up a few raw examples.

 

I wasn't having much luck until I left the main coin section of the bourse and headed for the cheap section and foreign coin rows. Some of my best show purchases have come from these sections over the years as a lot of collectors seem to overlook the little hidden gems that can be found there burried in dealer cases.

 

Finally I saw just what I was looking for...a flash of color on a Morgan that was by itself in the corner of a case....blast white ho hum raw Morgans in trays at the front of the case. There was a gentleman standing next to the case who moved a little to his left when I pointed and asked to see "the coin". The dealer removed the coin, handed it to me and started the hype speach....it was not necessary :insane: So after the dealer told me it was probably from the Battle creek hoard (No chance) lol I asked for a price.....I thought it sounded fair and I pulled out the cash. The man that had moved aside then asked the dealer why he hadn't shown him the coin first and the dealer appologized and then went about searching his case for another toned Morgan.....there weren't any :devil:

 

It was all good...no hard feelings and I left with my last purchase of the 2012 FUN show....which by the way was the 2nd best FUN show I have attended in the last 10 years :banana:

 

I knew the coin was in an pretty old 2X2 which is one of the main reasons I was confident the coin did not come from the battle creek hoard plus the battle creek coins all went from the owners hands/bags straight to NGC but I pretty much ignored the writing on the 2X2 until I got home and took a better look at my purchase. The top isn't completely clear but I believe it says Citizens Fed purchase which may be refering to a Citizens Federal Bank. I was able to track down a lot of information about local branches of Citizens Federal Bank here in Florida and I found branches in Miami dating back to 1952 so that could be it?

 

The more interesting info is on the botton of the 2X2...the date October 1968 :cloud9: Based on the age and the yellowing of the 2X2 paper...the style and discoloration of the staples...and unfortunately the disintegration of the 2X2 when I tried to gently remove the coin for imaging....I have no reason to believe this coin hasn't been sitting in this 2X2 since being purchased from a bank in 1968. (thumbs u

 

Well now that you've read the story about how I found the coin and why it's special to me...how about a picture of the coin? For what it's worth I thought the coin would probably go MS65* when I saw it at the show and now after imaging with better lighting I grade the coin MS64* based on NGC standards.

 

Consignments81a121.jpg

 

Consignments81a124.jpg

 

 

Consignments81a128.jpg

 

Consignments81a131.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted

I agree with those who grade this coin MS-64+. It has too many marks on the cheek to make MS-65. If it becomes an MS-65, grade-flation has raised its ugly head again, and we have to start buying MS-66 graded pieces to get MS-65 quality. :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jgrinz

jgrinz

Posted
Posted

I guess I am going to be the contrarian again.

Obviously the reverse appears to be a nice looking coin complete with feathers on an "O" mint coin however the obverse is the killer.

Way too many marks for a high grade in my mind.

Plus it has rim damage/hits if the pictures are accurate.

Am I seeing chunks missing at 12:00 oclock both sides ???

If so an MS61/Possible Damaged coin

meh2c

 

Good luck if you submit

Link to comment
Share on other sites
coins4me-migration

coins4me-migration

Posted
Posted

Just a general question on grading and rim dings.

 

We know many Morgans were stored in 1,000 coin bags, stacked 10 - 12 bags high and secured in various gov't vaults. Additionally, these vaults would get audited where each bag is opened and coins counted (sometimes machine counted), put back in the bag and slung back on the pile.

 

In no way were the coins handled with extreme care during the years of storage and we recognize "bag marks" and adjust accordingly.

 

What I don't quite understand is why we don't generally attribute some of the rim dings as possibly occurring while stored in "uncirculated" condition in the vaults.

 

As an example, I have seen many GSA CCs that look like they have been tumbled in a dryer with all types of dings yet still grade MS62. Yet we quickly discount a coin with much better obverse and reverse eye appeal due to a ding on the rim.

 

Yes, the rim is the third side of a coin and needs to be considered but a ding on the rim doesn't necessarily mean a coin is circulated.

 

Thoughts / comments?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted
I guess I am going to be the contrarian again.

Obviously the reverse appears to be a nice looking coin complete with feathers on an "O" mint coin however the obverse is the killer.

Way too many marks for a high grade in my mind.

Plus it has rim damage/hits if the pictures are accurate.

Am I seeing chunks missing at 12:00 oclock both sides ???

If so an MS61/Possible Damaged coin

meh2c

 

Good luck if you submit

 

I'm trying to find all of this rim damage, and right now I'm having trouble. I see the mark above the "T" on the reverse, and that's pretty minor, but I'm missing it on the obverse. These coins were stored and moved around in bags of 1,000 coins. The marks are almost inevitable. I’ll stick by the MS-64 grade. If you want to slice hairs and go ultra conservative I guess we would be down to MS-63, but from the slabbed coins I’ve seen the edge marks had to be bigger than what I see to knock off a point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
cpm9ball

cpm9ball

Posted
Posted
Yes, the rim is the third side of a coin and needs to be considered but a ding on the rim doesn't necessarily mean a coin is circulated.

 

Thoughts / comments?

 

The edge is the third side, not the rim.

 

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jgrinz

jgrinz

Posted
Posted
I agree with those who grade this coin MS-64+. It has too many marks on the cheek to make MS-65. If it becomes an MS-65, grade-flation has raised its ugly head again, and we have to start buying MS-66 graded pieces to get MS-65 quality. :(

 

Funny you should say this as going through the MORGAN collection I was looking at coins that were graded MS64 going myself WOW thats a 65 66 all day long in todays standards.

I probably have 5-6 coins like this - crack and resubmit hm

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

Posted
  • Author
Posted
I guess I am going to be the contrarian again.

Obviously the reverse appears to be a nice looking coin complete with feathers on an "O" mint coin however the obverse is the killer.

Way too many marks for a high grade in my mind.

Plus it has rim damage/hits if the pictures are accurate.

Am I seeing chunks missing at 12:00 oclock both sides ???

If so an MS61/Possible Damaged coin

meh2c

 

Good luck if you submit

 

This is common and is a classic example of I see a lot on the forums were folks tend to micro grade based on an image that is 10 to 20 times larger than the coin in hand. In hand you really don't see the cheek chatter so the coin is very close to MS65 based on today's standards but I grade it MS64. If you are finding rim hits in the picture of the coin in the 2x2 then your probably seeing ripples in the plastic with lighting playing tricks as any rim nicks on the coin are minor and would not detract from the coins grade.

 

I am glad you posted what you did though as grading isn't an exact science but we live in an internet age were folks that are savy at interpreting images and who can grade coins accurately based on larger than life photo's have a huge advantage.

 

I could post plenty of photo's of NGC and PCGS graded coins in MS64 that have more hits then this coin based on the blown up image.....so learning not to be overly critical of every little mark on these large photo's takes practice (thumbs u

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jgrinz

jgrinz

Posted
Posted
I guess I am going to be the contrarian again.

Obviously the reverse appears to be a nice looking coin complete with feathers on an "O" mint coin however the obverse is the killer.

Way too many marks for a high grade in my mind.

Plus it has rim damage/hits if the pictures are accurate.

Am I seeing chunks missing at 12:00 oclock both sides ???

If so an MS61/Possible Damaged coin

meh2c

 

Good luck if you submit

 

This is common and is a classic example of I see a lot on the forums were folks tend to micro grade based on an image that is 10 to 20 times larger than the coin in hand. In hand you really don't see the cheek chatter so the coin is very close to MS65 based on today's standards but I grade it MS64. If you are finding rim hits in the picture of the coin in the 2x2 then your probably seeing ripples in the plastic with lighting playing tricks as any rim nicks on the coin are minor and would not detract from the coins grade.

 

I am glad you posted what you did though as grading isn't an exact science but we live in an internet age were folks that are savy at interpreting images and who can grade coins accurately based on larger than life photo's have a huge advantage.

 

I could post plenty of photo's of NGC and PCGS graded coins in MS64 that have more hits then this coin based on the blown up image.....so learning not to be overly critical of every little mark on these large photo's takes practice (thumbs u

 

 

I think its the black background and the lighting at the 12:00 position of the coin. You can see heavy irregularity which makes look a lot more drastic than it probably is.Reverse looks like a chunk missing . I usually take a coin and shrink it to a 500x500 and grade it like that but I was at work and unable to do so ... I will do that shortly and re-enter my updated grade :o) heheheh - Nice pick up though .... well $$$$ - Did we steal it ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jgrinz

jgrinz

Posted
Posted

Follow up -

 

MS63*

 

I think the obverse is very unremarkable having too much chatter for my liking both in the fields cheek and rim.

The reverse however is quite nice - shrinking it, the color takes on a complete rainbow 'shape' better than the larger version. Its as if another coin was laying on the lower part of the coin creating the rainbow shape in tone on the top.

I always like those "O" mints with breast feathering and hairlines :)

Coloring is perfect and is a definite 'natural' - nice snag

 

 

 

 

 

120532.jpg.b843e8b9a195e195a5b59a0c77c87bb3.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

Posted
  • Author
Posted
I guess I am going to be the contrarian again.

Obviously the reverse appears to be a nice looking coin complete with feathers on an "O" mint coin however the obverse is the killer.

Way too many marks for a high grade in my mind.

Plus it has rim damage/hits if the pictures are accurate.

Am I seeing chunks missing at 12:00 oclock both sides ???

If so an MS61/Possible Damaged coin

meh2c

 

Good luck if you submit

 

This is common and is a classic example of I see a lot on the forums were folks tend to micro grade based on an image that is 10 to 20 times larger than the coin in hand. In hand you really don't see the cheek chatter so the coin is very close to MS65 based on today's standards but I grade it MS64. If you are finding rim hits in the picture of the coin in the 2x2 then your probably seeing ripples in the plastic with lighting playing tricks as any rim nicks on the coin are minor and would not detract from the coins grade.

 

I am glad you posted what you did though as grading isn't an exact science but we live in an internet age were folks that are savy at interpreting images and who can grade coins accurately based on larger than life photo's have a huge advantage.

 

I could post plenty of photo's of NGC and PCGS graded coins in MS64 that have more hits then this coin based on the blown up image.....so learning not to be overly critical of every little mark on these large photo's takes practice (thumbs u

 

 

I think its the black background and the lighting at the 12:00 position of the coin. You can see heavy irregularity which makes look a lot more drastic than it probably is.Reverse looks like a chunk missing . I usually take a coin and shrink it to a 500x500 and grade it like that but I was at work and unable to do so ... I will do that shortly and re-enter my updated grade :o) heheheh - Nice pick up though .... well $$$$ - Did we steal it ?

 

I paid $100 for it which I would say would be a fair premium for a raw coin...once I pay for grading....I will be into the coin for $120 to $130 and I think the coin is probably worth in the neighborhood of $200 to $220 as an MS64* so I wouldn't say steal but I do believe I can make a profit on the coin if and when I decide to sell. (thumbs u

Link to comment
Share on other sites
cpm9ball

cpm9ball

Posted
Posted
Hey Shane, is that a little die chip next to the neckline on the obverse? Nice coin, love the thick skin and toning.

 

Is it a die chip or a strikethrough? It doesn't look raised in my poor eyes.

 

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing