About two years after "The Big One", what exactly has changed?

[James_OldeTowne]

March 2010:

“We will unveil the ‘next step, the new way, The Big One,’ and it’s going to change coin grading for the better,” said Hall who has been offering tantalizing hints about the new PCGS service since last fall.

 

“We believe this will totally revolutionize the coin grading business,” Willis added.

How do you feel after being "revolutionized"?

[michael]

the hole in the middle of the donut

[michael]

[cpm9ball]

How do you feel after being "revolutionized"?

 

Like a 10-year old working in an NYC sweatshop.

 

Chris

[$ilverHawk]

"It is a tale full of sound and fury signifying nothing." Macbeth---William Shakespeare

 

Revolution? I don't think so. Marketing hype---yes.

 

Carl

[jom]

How do you feel after being "revolutionized"?

 

 

jom

[DirtyGoldMan]

I think that it is better to under promise and over deliver.

[Ducksoup]

There was a revolution?

[WoodenJefferson]

How do you feel after being "revolutionized"?

 

I levitated a little...it was scary at first, but then I gently touched back down to earth.

 

 

[Dcoin]

I think the changes were actions that go forward.

 

I'm not sure 2 years is enough to change such a diverse market.

[Lastufka Collection]

I don't travel ATS too often, what was "The Big One"?

[RWB]

The "revolutionary" thing was not "the hole in the middle of the donut." It was figuring out how to put the hole on the outside of the donut.

[Conder101]

I don't travel ATS too often, what was "The Big One"?

Secure Plus grading with the coin sniffer, the digital fingerprinting of the coin, and the + being added to high end coins.

 

No much of a revolution because at first because it was only for certain tiers and you had to request and pay extra for the Secure Plus system. Later they expanded the tiers, and the + grading I think is now available outside of the Secure Plus system. (Probably because if they didn't it boiled down to "I paid you to grade my coin and if it turns out to be a high end coin you aren't going to tell me the actual grade and will mark it at the lower grade unless I pay you extra?" TPG extortion.) But you still have to pay extra for the coin sniffer and digital fingerprinting and I suspect a lot of people aren't willing to do that.

 

It would not surprise me if they do the coin sniffing on high value items even if it isn't paid for just to protect themselves. The coin sniffer is insurance for PCGS so they don't have to pay out for chemically altered coins under their guarantee. If they can get the submitter to pay for COMPANIES protection, that's a bonus for them.

 

I don't really see it becoming a "revolution" until the digital fingerprinting is done to every coin as a standard submission (As they planned to do with their Expert System back in 1991.) because that would almost put an end to the crackout game. Every time a coin was resubmitted it would be recognized and could be returned at the original grade. With no further grading being down and the fee being kept.

 

It would also allow for a new grade review or confirmation level for those coins flagged as resubmissions. For an ADDITIONAL fee the coin can be regraded and the new grade assigned to that fingerprint. If it goes up they win, if it doesn't they still pay the fee whether it stays the same or goes down. They DON'T get reimbursed under the guarantee if it goes down.

[DunderChief-migration]

From what I understand, they had to buy back many high end coins that developed problems after holdering. The perception that continued holdering of problem coins existed and the market would react negatively. To counteract this perception they had to offer the additional services. It would be interesting to know if the new services have accomplished their intentions.

[johnny9434]

i wonder if this is a better question to ask in a few more years? just wondering is all

[coinman1794]

It doesn't seem to have been a smashing success. The + was the real incentive for most people (high tier coins would benefit most from the sniffer, etc), and it has been made available to all tiers.

[bochiman]

I am wondering if it really matters.

Unless you are impacted by it such as submitting and using it, etc, then I just don't understand why bring it up.

 

Sounds like for some, it has helped.....some previously "QT" graded coins get submitted through the sniffer and that seems to help. Maybe they take a sniffer run as a bit more insurance and leeway. I don't think that is a bad thing.

 

For + grading, there seems to be a market and if the coins didn't make it to the next grade, I don't think that is a bad thing either.

 

[Conder101]

And in 10 years or so they can make the next big leap forward revolutionizing grading.....and start actually putting decimal point grading on the slabs.

[coinman_23885]

And in 10 years or so they can make the next big leap forward revolutionizing grading.....and start actually putting decimal point grading on the slabs.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see decimal grading well before the 10 year anniversary of the announcement of the "Big One."

[mailman1959]

In less than 20yrs, coins will be graded by a machine using some type of laser, grading to .01 of a point. The only human handling will be opening and removing from box. Shipped thru USPS....MAILMAN

[BillJones]

This 1803 dollar is in a Secure Plus holder, but that didn't stop some people, saw this picture of it, from claiming that it had been dipped and re-colored. The question is who is right? The "snifffer" or the critics?

 

For the record, I think that Secure Plus is more marketing than science.

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Bill - I don't think the Secure Plus cares about dipping. Dipping is considered market acceptable by many, and if it retoned naturally by normally accepted means, the sniffer wouldn't catch that either. The sniffer is designed more for certain AT chemicals, putty, plugs, and the such.

 

Just because it passed the sniffer does not mean it wasn't dipped.

[RGT]

I think the changes were actions that go forward.

 

I'm not sure 2 years is enough to change such a diverse market.

 

i wonder if this is a better question to ask in a few more years? just wondering is all

 

To quote David Hall from the announcement that they were going to have an announcement: " In February, 1986, we flicked a switch and changed the market...we're going to flick another switch on March 26..."

 

A switch implies something immediate. Maybe he meant they would immediately start a ten year process.

 

On March 26, 2010 they flicked the switch.

 

The light!

 

The sound!

 

The... ooops... the bulb blew.

 

 

 

 

[123cents]

I think that it is better to under promise and over deliver. [/quote

 

 

Well said!

[Arizonadesertrat]

 

"For the record, I think that Secure Plus is more marketing than science."

 

Of course. There is no rigorous, consistently applied, set of standards used in grading. For many grades, there are multiple ways to arrive at them, especially when dealing with circulation strikes graded AU50 and up. Think about the position that both NCG and PCGS are in---both businesses have to develop new 'products' to maintain a decent revenue stream. Mistakes constitute a very small percentage of their outputs, yet are constantly paraded in public by collectors and some dealers. And there are warranties. The plain truth is that, if either NGC or PCGS had to take in overgraded coins currently in the marketplace and attempted to fully honor their warranties, both grading services would go almost certainly bankrupt.

 

It isn't just SecurePlus that is mostly marketing, it's the business end of the hobby as a whole, from to TPG grading to CAC to coin albums (and coin boards before these) to the Red Book to dealers who talk up their stock to.......

[Oldtrader3]

A human has to be capable of deciding what each attribute means and how to rank it for degrees of goodness. I do not know how any (10) human beings can agree on all attributes and the 1000's of items that a good laser (or any light based) vision system will see, sort and use to affect the grading of the coin.

 

Secondly, I was on a team that developed X-pert Plus, a visible light inspection syetems for medical products back during the 1990's which was only checking about (5) attributes and being, at that time new technology, the system cost about $2 miilion to develop then. I can imagine what a comprehensive coin inspection sistem would cost to develop now. Plus, it is not like there is an applications market out there for iterations of this device to be built for others in order to help defray development costs.

 

This sounds to me like Star Wars or a black hole that PCGS pours money into.

[Houston Investor]

Outside of the smoke and mirrors of stickers and pluses not much of nothing.

 

I don't see any significant change in market demands or bids except for bullion.

 

Its just the same old carnival trying to make a buck and various hucksters trying to push their goods.

[noow]

And in 10 years or so they can make the next big leap forward revolutionizing grading.....and start actually putting decimal point grading on the slabs.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see decimal grading well before the 10 year anniversary of the announcement of the "Big One."

It already happened, but Compugrade didn't do so well.

[e1cnr]

the big one was for shareholders, not collectors

[Conder101]

It already happened, but Compugrade didn't do so well.

And Accugrade did it years before that.