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This Trade Dollar doesn't look quite right

Started by JIM F.,

24 posts in this topic

JIM F.

JIM F.

Posted
Posted

Something just looks wrong. Especially the mintmark. Is this a fake?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1877-S-Trade-Silver-Dollar-AU-BU-Wonderful-Detailing-/190565373241?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item2c5e94d539

 

Another from the same seller -- this one a Morgan -- looks suspicious.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1896-O-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-Nice-BU-Rare-Key-Date-Coin-/200657624904?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item2eb8205f48

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Keigwin

Keigwin

Posted
Posted
Neither of those look fake. Both of those look harshly cleaned, terribly polished, and awfully ugly.

Ugh. POS.

 

Not whizzed, though. Scrubbed with baking soda or silver polish, maybe. Very atrocious.

Lance.

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted

Is it possible that the ugly surfaces that make them look harshly cleaned is actually just a function of how they were imaged? I agree with everyone here that it appears that these are harshly cleaned but bad images could make them seem that way.... (shrug)

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No+4Me

No+4Me

Posted
Posted
I have doubts about the authenticity of the trade dollar. If real, it's real ruined.

the Morgan looks genuine, but scrubbed, imo.

 

What are you seeing that causes you to doubt its authenticity?

 

On the obverse there are some very distorted dentils at 12:30 and 5:30, that I have trouble explaining as either photo image distortion or PMD.

 

On the reverse, the fields show waviness, some raised bumps and a fairly large depressed area (I think ) to the right of the eagle. there is also a strange protrusion on the right hand side of the upper loop of the R in DOLLAR.

I suspect it is a transfer die forgery, but would need to examine it up close to be sure.

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No+4Me

No+4Me

Posted
Posted

Yes. The transfer die forgeries have become pretty good. The people making them have access to better die cutting equipment, better stamping presses. Thus I often have a hard time just saying "it's a fake" because there isn't a smoking gun, just a whiff of gunsmoke in the room. Sort of a gut feeling I have.

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Crohnos01

Crohnos01

Posted
Posted

Wow... I see the problem with the R in dollar you mentioned...nice catch! I am so scared to death I am going to buy an forgery... I am trying to educate myself on what to look for.... I suppose I should check the forum and see if there are threads out there to help noobs like me on this stuff so I don't plunk down hard earned $ on some coin that turns out to have been minted by Captain Crunch...

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Conder101

Conder101

Posted
Posted

But eBay is reluctant to pull the auction unless you can show evidence that it IS a fake. Just "Because I say so" isn't good enough unless you have some terrific reputation they can verify to back it up.

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coin guy dan-migration

coin guy dan-migration

Posted
Posted

when on ebay,learn how to use your buyer protection. i have become quite a thorn in their side but have never lost a case. have been blocked by many,many sellers i might add. and if ebay rules in their favor,when you win and you will win on appeal,you get to keep the coin. point in case.won 1917 type 1. gem bu. sent to n.g.c. came back reverse cleaned. ebay ruled in scumbags favor. i faxed picture of coin and n.g.c.'s findings to ebay and won. ebay said the case was closed and to keep the item. just remember you have 45 days to file.plenty of time to have a coin graded

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No+4Me

No+4Me

Posted
Posted
The S on the Trade Dollar looks crooked.

 

The mintmarks were punched into the working dies at the Phila. mint before they were sent to the branch mints. Many such dies were produced in a hurry and the MM's were often punched haphazardly. A tilted mm is not an indicator of a fake, but it does indicate a particular reverse die.

 

I've reported hundreds of fake trade dollars to eBay. Most of the listings are pulled. I've notified buyers of fakes and some of them have gotten their money back. Having looked at thousands of fake trade dollar images (and some in person) I am pretty good at spotting them but I'm not an expert.

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bsshog40

bsshog40

Posted
Posted

I don't see anything that flags fake to me either. I agree with the others that's it's been harshly cleaned and I'm thinking some possible detail altering maybe with a dremel also.

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Kenneth F

Kenneth F

Posted
Posted
The S on the Trade Dollar looks crooked.

 

The mintmarks were punched into the working dies at the Phila. mint before they were sent to the branch mints. Many such dies were produced in a hurry and the MM's were often punched haphazardly. A tilted mm is not an indicator of a fake, but it does indicate a particular reverse die.

 

I've reported hundreds of fake trade dollars to eBay. Most of the listings are pulled. I've notified buyers of fakes and some of them have gotten their money back. Having looked at thousands of fake trade dollar images (and some in person) I am pretty good at spotting them but I'm not an expert.

 

Not doubting you but I have never seen a MM that crooked. After this thread was posted, Ive looked through hundreds of photos of the same year and MM. All looked correct. Even looked through other years with the S MM. Same.. all look correct. This one is interesting.

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