1880/9-S VAM-11 Morgan (New Pics Added)

[tallguybry]

Hey Guys,

 

I picked up this raw Top-50 VAM-11 1880/9-S Morgan tonight on eBay from a reputable seller. Here are the early pics:

 

 

 

 

 

This is the last coin that I will be buying for a little while.

 

I've got my 1891-CC "Spitting Eagle" Morgan and my 1883-CC GSA Morgan at NGC right now.

 

I also have a RAW 1887/6-O Morgan coming in the mail, as well as a RAW 1896-O Morgan and a RAW 1897-O Morgan. I'll ship those off to NGC with my 1882-S Morgan and my 1890-P Morgan.

 

I'll post some better pics when I get the coin.

Bryan

[coinman_23885]

I'd grade it MS65 DMPL.

[tallguybry]

The seller took it to it to a coin convention in Florida and that's what he was told by others. The cool thing is I picked her up for way less then what PCGS Coinfacts says it's worth. Even if it graded 64DMPL, I still profit!

[mtnstyne]

I was watching that one, let us know how it looks in hand.

 

[Mark T]

The PCGS site lists the retail value of a coin in a PCGS holder. Those values should not be used as a price guide as they are somewhat inflated over what you could expect to get for the coin if you put it up for sale. Your coin from the photos looks nice and does look to be DMPL however if this really was a MS 65 DMPL why would the seller let it go for what he says is less than MS 64. ICG is very liberal – so I would take the comment about an ICG grader at Fun giving the coin MS 65 with some grains of salt. Good luck with the coin and let us know how it looks in hand.

[tallguybry]

Good insight Mark. I can't find a NGC price for her. But in the end, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. People are going to pay what they want to pay.

 

In the meantime, I'll post more of her when I receive her.

 

Is she worth more then I paid for her? Only time will tell!

 

Cheers,

Bryan

[Mark T]

Good insight Mark. I can't find a NGC price for her. But in the end, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. People are going to pay what they want to pay.

 

In the meantime, I'll post more of her when I receive her.

 

Is she worth more then I paid for her? Only time will tell!

 

Cheers,

Bryan

 

If the coin is PQ then you can get retail . If I had this coin and I thought it would grade MS 65 DMPL I would send it in for grading and not sell it for less then a MS 64 DMPL price. You can get lucky on EBAY - I did once . Purchased a 1913 Quarter Eagle raw for $ 400 - it came back from PCGS MS 64 - CAC certified it.

[tallguybry]

PQ? Proof quality?

 

You can get lucky on eBay. I picked up a roll of 20 uncirculated 2011 Silver American Eagles for $38.50. The buyer accidentally listed them for the price of one coin. No questions were asked after the end of the auction. When I received the roll, the buyer wrote on the packing slip "I live by honor". I was speechless!

 

I'd be tickled pink if I earned my first CAC! I did some homework before I bought the coin. I looked all over eBay and the Internet to see what DMPL's were going for. I felt the price was fair.

 

As for why he let her go so cheap, I'm trying to find that out.

[Chris1976]

Going by the photos you have posted, I most likely wouldnt have bought it. The pictures are blurry and can hide alot, the coin is un graded (as it is sitting in a "self serve" slab" and the angled pictures do not show anything about the coin other than it is mirrored. Not to mention that the last photo is not even in the same holder as the other photos. It could be polished and buffed to be shiny (yes you can buff the fields with a dremel tool without changing the devices so that they stand out greatly against the buffed surfaces). Personally I feel the pictures were left the way they are to hide the true reason it is being sold so cheaply and why it has not already been graded by a TPG.

 

Being a skeptic, I would be wondering not only why it was sold for much less than it would be worth had it been graded by a top TPG such as NGC or PCGS, but also why has it not been graded and/or submited to CAC for grade verification? And I would like to know why the difference in the holder used for the photos?

 

I do hope you get the coin and it is all it was advertised to be and a problem free coin, but I have some doubts.

[tallguybry]

Going by the photos you have posted, I most likely wouldnt have bought it. The pictures are blurry and can hide alot, the coin is un graded (as it is sitting in a "self serve" slab" and the angled pictures do not show anything about the coin other than it is mirrored. Not to mention that the last photo is not even in the same holder as the other photos. It could be polished and buffed to be shiny (yes you can buff the fields with a dremel tool without changing the devices so that they stand out greatly against the buffed surfaces). Personally I feel the pictures were left the way they are to hide the true reason it is being sold so cheaply and why it has not already been graded by a TPG.

 

Being a skeptic, I would be wondering not only why it was sold for much less than it would be worth had it been graded by a top TPG such as NGC or PCGS, but also why has it not been graded and/or submited to CAC for grade verification? And I would like to know why the difference in the holder used for the photos?

 

I do hope you get the coin and it is all it was advertised to be and a problem free coin, but I have some doubts.

 

Your insight is quite painful, but very helpful. I had no idea a coin can be "buffed" with a Dremel tool without destroying the coin. I didn't notice the fact that the slab in the last picture is a different color then in the other pictures.

 

The good thing is he offers a 7-day refund policy. So at the least, I'll be out the cost of shipping the coin back.

 

She will be examined and photographed upon her arrival.

 

Thanks again for the insight,

Bryan

[coinman_23885]

ICG is very liberal – so I would take the comment about an ICG grader at Fun giving the coin MS 65 with some grains of salt. Good luck with the coin and let us know how it looks in hand.

 

+1

 

I hope the photos are accurate.

[e1cnr]

good luck

 

 

what does the price guide say if it comes back

genuine - altered surfaces?

[RockMyAmadeus]

PQ? Proof quality?

 

You can get lucky on eBay. I picked up a roll of 20 uncirculated 2011 Silver American Eagles for $38.50. The buyer accidentally listed them for the price of one coin. No questions were asked after the end of the auction. When I received the roll, the buyer wrote on the packing slip "I live by honor". I was speechless!

.

 

You should probably send the guy more money.

 

It was clearly a mistake. His living by honor doesn't mean you can't, too.

 

(thumbs u

[cpm9ball]

PQ? Proof quality?

 

You can get lucky on eBay. I picked up a roll of 20 uncirculated 2011 Silver American Eagles for $38.50. The buyer accidentally listed them for the price of one coin. No questions were asked after the end of the auction. When I received the roll, the buyer wrote on the packing slip "I live by honor". I was speechless!

.

 

You should probably send the guy more money.

 

It was clearly a mistake. His living by honor doesn't mean you can't, too.

 

(thumbs u

 

+1

[cpm9ball]

I'm not fully convinced about it being DMPL. I'm bothered by the first obverse photo. The fields on the left appear to be hazy while the fields on the right are mirrored. Furthermore, if ICG believed it to be MS65 DMPL, why didn't the seller submit it to NGC or PCGS for grading? I have my doubts.

 

Also, I'd want to see a good close-up of the "0" in the date for the VAM. It's impossible to tell from those photos. By the way, the VAM-11 is a "Hot 50", not "Top 50".

 

Chris

[tallguybry]

PQ? Proof quality?

 

You can get lucky on eBay. I picked up a roll of 20 uncirculated 2011 Silver American Eagles for $38.50. The buyer accidentally listed them for the price of one coin. No questions were asked after the end of the auction. When I received the roll, the buyer wrote on the packing slip "I live by honor". I was speechless!

.

 

You should probably send the guy more money.

 

It was clearly a mistake. His living by honor doesn't mean you can't, too.

 

(thumbs u

 

I make it a point to not bring up the topic of Religion to any online forum.... But... If you must know........

 

I do live by honor (more specifically I live my life because of Jesus). I felt that money that I netted from the sale of the roll wasn't mine. It was meant for someone else. We (me and my Wife) gave the money to one of our close friends. His family had been evicted from their apartment because they couldn't afford to pay rent. They moved in with us until he landed a job in Atlanta. The $700+ enabled them to put a deposit on a apartment....

 

It's not my money, it's God's money.

 

Oh and please don't judge me....

 

 

[cpm9ball]

PQ? Proof quality?

 

You can get lucky on eBay. I picked up a roll of 20 uncirculated 2011 Silver American Eagles for $38.50. The buyer accidentally listed them for the price of one coin. No questions were asked after the end of the auction. When I received the roll, the buyer wrote on the packing slip "I live by honor". I was speechless!

.

 

You should probably send the guy more money.

 

It was clearly a mistake. His living by honor doesn't mean you can't, too.

 

(thumbs u

 

I make it a point to not bring up the topic of Religion to any online forum.... But... If you must know........

 

I do live by honor (more specifically I live my life because of Jesus). I felt that money that I netted from the sale of the roll wasn't mine. It was meant for someone else. We (me and my Wife) gave the money to one of our close friends. His family had been evicted from their apartment because they couldn't afford to pay rent. They moved in with us until he landed a job in Atlanta. The $700+ enabled them to put a deposit on a apartment....

 

It's not my money, it's God's money.

 

Oh and please don't judge me....

 

 

(thumbs u

 

Chris

[tallguybry]

I'm not fully convinced about it being DMPL. I'm bothered by the first obverse photo. The fields on the left appear to be hazy while the fields on the right are mirrored. Furthermore, if ICG believed it to be MS65 DMPL, why didn't the seller submit it to NGC or PCGS for grading? I have my doubts.

 

Also, I'd want to see a good close-up of the "0" in the date for the VAM. It's impossible to tell from those photos. By the way, the VAM-11 is a "Hot 50", not "Top 50".

 

Chris

 

I'm starting to doubt too (gee, thanks guys! Just kidding!).

 

I did notice something in picture 3. There is another coin in the upper right corner. I think the coin in picture 4 is that coin.

 

I asked the seller why he didn't get her graded late last night. I'll let you know if he responds.

 

Thanks for the correction Chris.

Bryan

[tallguybry]

Oh and Chris.... I have to comment about the nickname "CHOO-CHOO". That's my Disc-Golf nickname.

 

I got that nickname because I am a Locomotive Engineer (laid off in January). I've got 14 years under my belt in the Railroad Industry.

 

I hope to get back to running trains soon....

[Mark T]

good luck

 

 

what does the price guide say if it comes back

genuine - altered surfaces?

 

Pcgs and Ngc price guides do not value details graded coins .

[cpm9ball]

Oh and Chris.... I have to comment about the nickname "CHOO-CHOO". That's my Disc-Golf nickname.

 

I got that nickname because I am a Locomotive Engineer (laid off in January). I've got 14 years under my belt in the Railroad Industry.

 

I hope to get back to running trains soon....

 

I was given that moniker (because of my last name) in the late 50's by some of the poolroom crowd.

 

Since you like trains, here is an 1836 French medal that has very special meaning for me.

 

Chris

[johnny9434]

i like chris, im glad they thought of you

[tallguybry]

 

 

Thoughts?

Bryan

[physics-fan3.14]

Looks like 65PL. The mirrors don't appear quite as magnificent as the seller's pics, but that is what I expected.

[coinman_23885]

I stick by my grade of MS65; however, I'm not sure that the obverse mirrors are strong enough to warrant a PL designation, but it is close either way. In all essence, proof like designations can be difficult to determine using internet photographs alone. How many inches away can you read the normal print of a newspaper in the coin's fields?

[Mark T]

Looks MS 65 Pl to me as well.

[tallguybry]

I stick by my grade of MS65; however, I'm not sure that the obverse mirrors are strong enough to warrant a PL designation, but it is close either way. In all essence, proof like designations can be difficult to determine using internet photographs alone. How many inches away can you read the normal print of a newspaper in the coin's fields?

 

Um. We don't have any newspapers. I took one of those cloth tape measures and laid it on the computer desk. I put the coin at the end of the tape and tilted it. I can see the 6 clearly with the Obverse. The 7 starts to get fuzzy. But I can read the 7 on the reverse.

 

Bryan

[coinman_23885]

I stick by my grade of MS65; however, I'm not sure that the obverse mirrors are strong enough to warrant a PL designation, but it is close either way. In all essence, proof like designations can be difficult to determine using internet photographs alone. How many inches away can you read the normal print of a newspaper in the coin's fields?

 

Um. We don't have any newspapers. I took one of those cloth tape measures and laid it on the computer desk. I put the coin at the end of the tape and tilted it. I can see the 6 clearly with the Obverse. The 7 starts to get fuzzy. But I can read the 7 on the reverse.

 

Bryan

 

The coin should definitely get a PL designation then. It is a nice coin.

[tallguybry]

I pulled out my 1890-P and my 1882-S. I can see up to the 2 on the 1890-P and up to the 3 on the 1882-S.

 

Pretty cool trick.

 

[tallguybry]

I gave her a quick dip and swirl in the acetone.

 

 

 

Do you guys see any difference when comparing it to my last photos?

 

Bryan