Thoughts on this CB H10¢

[robec1347]

I spotted this at a recent local coin show. I didn't get an in hand look at the coin other than viewing it as it appeared under the glass. It is an NGC MS64 with gorgeous toning.

 

I took the sellers card, thought about the coin after going home and emailed the seller the next day (Sunday). After a couple of exchanged emails he contacted me Tuesday and quoted a price agreeable to both of us.

 

We had a couple of pleasant conversation by both email and phone before the coin finally showed up at my home via Registered mail. The coin was beautiful and at between arms length and 6 inches away looked spotless and perfect. It wasn't until I took pictures of it did I see the scratch on the obverse between the cap and rim.

 

I contacted the seller, sending him this image of my concern. I offered to send the coin back and use the money for either another coin of equal value or as a deposit for one of higher value. So far I have received no response.

 

Am I being unreasonable? There was no mention of a return policy. Is this common practice of coin show sellers to not have return policies? I could understand if I wanted to return the coin because the color doesn't fit my motif or the color of my eyes, but this is damage and should have been caught during the grading process.

 

[MarkFeld]

Those look like bad scratches, even considering that they are largely magnified by the images.

 

I don't know from your post, precisely when you made payment or when you received the coin, but it sounds as if you have had it for only a few days, at most.

 

It is also unclear, how long after you received it you contacted the seller, and how much time has passed since then.

 

Based on the extremely limited information you have provided, however, my thought is that you should be able to return the coin. My opinion might change based on more details.

 

 

 

 

 

[ldhair]

Toning can sure hide a lot of stuff. I'm shocked that made it in a 64 holder.

Still a great looking coin.

[123cents]

Too much damage to be in anything but a details holder. Return it!

[kryptonitecomics]

I'd return it and hopefully the dealer will work with you even though you didn't outline terms for a return policy...lesson learned eitherway but hopefully things will work out for you.

[nwcs]

I am also surprised this is in a 64 holder. The lighting may also be accentuating things. At the root, if you aren't happy now you won't be later. Try to return it but you may have to negotiate with the seller.

[robec1347]

Those look like bad scratches, even considering that they are largely magnified by the images.

 

I don't know from your post, precisely when you made payment or when you received the coin, but it sounds as if you have had it for only a few days, at most.

 

It is also unclear, how long after you received it you contacted the seller, and how much time has passed since then.

 

Based on the extremely limited information you have provided, however, my thought is that you should be able to return the coin. My opinion might change based on more details.

 

I received his bottom line total after 5 o'clock Oct.25. I put a check in the mail for the coin Oct. 26. At the time the seller was on his way to a show in Hawaii. I received an email upon his return home, Nov.2, saying the check was there and he would be sending the coin out Friday the 3rd. I received the coin Saturday, the 4th, in the late afternoon, immediately took these images and sent him an email after seeing the scratch, all the same afternoon.

 

I really do like the coin, I just wasn't aware of the scratches before hand. Would these marks keep the coin in the market acceptable category as a net 64?

 

As I said earlier, there was no mention of a return policy. I agree worse things could happen than having to keep the coin.

[nwcs]

Worst case scenario if you can't return it is to send it to NGC and see what they would do with it.

[James_OldeTowne]

The shorter scratch at 1:00 is barely permissible for MS-64.

 

The long, intermittent scratch is completely unacceptable, and the coin needs end up back at NGC for reimbursement under the grading guarantee.

 

If it were me, I would be mailing it to NGC, along with a copy of the original invoice. However, the dealer may be willing to take on that responsibility.

[x2rider]

Such a shame but these little coins are so small theat looking at them through a dealers glass is virtually impossible to make a call onit . I would hope the dealer would reimbuse you and maybe should of pointed it out . He would of known that you had not had a chance to look at it closely

 

Apart from that I really like it

[MarkFeld]

Those look like bad scratches, even considering that they are largely magnified by the images.

 

I don't know from your post, precisely when you made payment or when you received the coin, but it sounds as if you have had it for only a few days, at most.

 

It is also unclear, how long after you received it you contacted the seller, and how much time has passed since then.

 

Based on the extremely limited information you have provided, however, my thought is that you should be able to return the coin. My opinion might change based on more details.

 

I received his bottom line total after 5 o'clock Oct.25. I put a check in the mail for the coin Oct. 26. At the time the seller was on his way to a show in Hawaii. I received an email upon his return home, Nov.2, saying the check was there and he would be sending the coin out Friday the 3rd. I received the coin Saturday, the 4th, in the late afternoon, immediately took these images and sent him an email after seeing the scratch, all the same afternoon.

 

I really do like the coin, I just wasn't aware of the scratches before hand. Would these marks keep the coin in the market acceptable category as a net 64?

 

As I said earlier, there was no mention of a return policy. I agree worse things could happen than having to keep the coin.

 

If I understand you correctly, you only saw the coin through a case at a show and, once you had it in hand, very quickly contacted the seller. If that is so, unless you and the dealer had previously agreed that no return of the coin was allowed, you should be able to return it for a full refund.

 

You are, in essence, wanting a (less than) one day return privilege, from the time you got to view the coin in hand. Unless there is more to the story, an honorable dealer would allow a return and refund. And don't complicate things by taking a credit against future purchases or trade.

 

Edited to add:

 

I didn't get an in hand look at the coin other than viewing it as it appeared under the glass.

 

Does "glass" mean a magnifier, or display case? If the former and you viewed the coin in hand at the show before agreeing to the purchase, I don't feel as strongly about the dealer being obligated to allow a return. Still, I think he SHOULD allow it.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

If I may offer a thought:

 

One of the most difficult items to evaluate at a coin show/store,etc., is the 1/2D., with the 3c.S an equal partner.

 

I have done exactly what you described.

 

It is darn near impossible to view this type of damage under questionable lighting conditions, thru a glass case, and in a TPG Holder.

 

Time Table:

Saturday you "view" the coin at a Show.

 

Sunday you email interest.

 

Tuesday a mutually acceptable verbal agreement on the price is agreed to by Seller and Buyer.

 

Interim: payment was sent/received/cleared, etc. Allow 6 days, making it the following Monday.

 

Interim: Time unknown for Registered Delivery; allow 7 days, making it following Monday.

 

At this point, 2 weeks have elapsed, since the coin was first viewed and time it was received.

 

What is unknown is how long before the pictures were taken and the Dealer contacted. Assuming this was a few days, then I do not see any complaint as untimely.

 

Now, it is stated that there were at least 4 conversations with the Seller prior to receiving the coin. I would think (and hope) that the Seller looked at the coin carefully prior to sending, or certainly should have. My bet is he did, and he had the same difficulty as you in identifying this damage, or, (I hope not) he did see the damage and failed to tell you.

 

You have offered a very equitable solution to the problem.

 

Silence from the Seller could be a number of things-Power out, computer/telephone damage, vacation, etc.

 

These are easy enough to verify, maybe by contacting the person that organized the Show.

 

The Seller has, in some regard , the same problem-he has a damaged coin and he had to have obtained it from somebody. Maybe he is trying to rectify on the other end.

 

No, you are not being unreasonable.

 

Yes, the damage should have been caught by the TPG, and it may be they would give consideration to your present situation, especially in light of the coin being a 1/2D. I can't even find flaws 2X the size of that damage on a certain part of my anatomy, in good light and with a pleasant assistant. Size does matter, is my point (no pun intended).

 

The existence or not of a Return Policy in this transaction does not apply, in my opinion. There is certainly a right of reliance by both the Seller and Buyer, of a TPG coin. When the Seller doe not identify the damage, either because of tacit knowledge or no knowledge, the Seller does not have the option of not making the Buyer whole.

 

It doesn't matter if the toning hid it, dog poop hid it or dirt hid it and the dirt fell off.

 

The Seller is still offering a Product that the Buyer has the right to rely upon.

 

While the Seller is allowed to be lazy/uninformed/less than observant/etc., the Seller is not allowed to not exercise Integrity.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

[MarkFeld]

If I may offer a thought:

 

One of the most difficult items to evaluate at a coin show/store,etc., is the 1/2D., with the 3c.S an equal partner.

 

I have done exactly what you described.

 

It is darn near impossible to view this type of damage under questionable lighting conditions, thru a glass case, and in a TPG Holder.

 

Time Table:

Saturday you "view" the coin at a Show.

 

Sunday you email interest.

 

Tuesday a mutually acceptable verbal agreement on the price is agreed to by Seller and Buyer.

 

Interim: payment was sent/received/cleared, etc. Allow 6 days, making it the following Monday.

 

Interim: Time unknown for Registered Delivery; allow 7 days, making it following Monday.

 

At this point, 2 weeks have elapsed, since the coin was first viewed and time it was received.

 

What is unknown is how long before the pictures were taken and the Dealer contacted. Assuming this was a few days, then I do not see any complaint as untimely.

 

Now, it is stated that there were at least 4 conversations with the Seller prior to receiving the coin. I would think (and hope) that the Seller looked at the coin carefully prior to sending, or certainly should have. My bet is he did, and he had the same difficulty as you in identifying this damage, or, (I hope not) he did see the damage and failed to tell you.

 

You have offered a very equitable solution to the problem.

 

Silence from the Seller could be a number of things-Power out, computer/telephone damage, vacation, etc.

 

These are easy enough to verify, maybe by contacting the person that organized the Show.

 

The Seller has, in some regard , the same problem-he has a damaged coin and he had to have obtained it from somebody. Maybe he is trying to rectify on the other end.

 

No, you are not being unreasonable.

 

Yes, the damage should have been caught by the TPG, and it may be they would give consideration to your present situation, especially in light of the coin being a 1/2D. I can't even find flaws 2X the size of that damage on a certain part of my anatomy, in good light and with a pleasant assistant. Size does matter, is my point (no pun intended).

 

The existence or not of a Return Policy in this transaction does not apply, in my opinion. There is certainly a right of reliance by both the Seller and Buyer, of a TPG coin. When the Seller doe not identify the damage, either because of tacit knowledge or no knowledge, the Seller does not have the option of not making the Buyer whole.

 

It doesn't matter if the toning hid it, dog poop hid it or dirt hid it and the dirt fell off.

 

The Seller is still offering a Product that the Buyer has the right to rely upon.

 

While the Seller is allowed to be lazy/uninformed/less than observant/etc., the Seller is not allowed to not exercise Integrity.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

 

John, does this affect your thinking at all?:

 

I received the coin Saturday, the 4th, in the late afternoon, immediately took these images and sent him an email after seeing the scratch, all the same afternoon.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

If I may offer a thought:

 

One of the most difficult items to evaluate at a coin show/store,etc., is the 1/2D., with the 3c.S an equal partner.

 

I have done exactly what you described.

 

It is darn near impossible to view this type of damage under questionable lighting conditions, thru a glass case, and in a TPG Holder.

 

Time Table:

Saturday you "view" the coin at a Show.

 

Sunday you email interest.

 

Tuesday a mutually acceptable verbal agreement on the price is agreed to by Seller and Buyer.

 

Interim: payment was sent/received/cleared, etc. Allow 6 days, making it the following Monday.

 

Interim: Time unknown for Registered Delivery; allow 7 days, making it following Monday.

 

At this point, 2 weeks have elapsed, since the coin was first viewed and time it was received.

 

What is unknown is how long before the pictures were taken and the Dealer contacted. Assuming this was a few days, then I do not see any complaint as untimely.

 

Now, it is stated that there were at least 4 conversations with the Seller prior to receiving the coin. I would think (and hope) that the Seller looked at the coin carefully prior to sending, or certainly should have. My bet is he did, and he had the same difficulty as you in identifying this damage, or, (I hope not) he did see the damage and failed to tell you.

 

You have offered a very equitable solution to the problem.

 

Silence from the Seller could be a number of things-Power out, computer/telephone damage, vacation, etc.

 

These are easy enough to verify, maybe by contacting the person that organized the Show.

 

The Seller has, in some regard , the same problem-he has a damaged coin and he had to have obtained it from somebody. Maybe he is trying to rectify on the other end.

 

No, you are not being unreasonable.

 

Yes, the damage should have been caught by the TPG, and it may be they would give consideration to your present situation, especially in light of the coin being a 1/2D. I can't even find flaws 2X the size of that damage on a certain part of my anatomy, in good light and with a pleasant assistant. Size does matter, is my point (no pun intended).

 

The existence or not of a Return Policy in this transaction does not apply, in my opinion. There is certainly a right of reliance by both the Seller and Buyer, of a TPG coin. When the Seller doe not identify the damage, either because of tacit knowledge or no knowledge, the Seller does not have the option of not making the Buyer whole.

 

It doesn't matter if the toning hid it, dog poop hid it or dirt hid it and the dirt fell off.

 

The Seller is still offering a Product that the Buyer has the right to rely upon.

 

While the Seller is allowed to be lazy/uninformed/less than observant/etc., the Seller is not allowed to not exercise Integrity.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

 

John, does this affect your thinking at all?:

 

I received the coin Saturday, the 4th, in the late afternoon, immediately took these images and sent him an email after seeing the scratch, all the same afternoon.

 

No Sir.

 

If anything, it supports the reasonableness of a timely complaint.

I saw the follow up Post after I had finished typing my opinion.

The only thing that changes is the amount of time in my timetable. It has been reduced in facvor of the Buyer.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

[robec1347]

 

Edited to add:

 

I didn't get an in hand look at the coin other than viewing it as it appeared under the glass.

 

Does "glass" mean a magnifier, or display case? If the former and you viewed the coin in hand at the show before agreeing to the purchase, I don't feel as strongly about the dealer being obligated to allow a return. Still, I think he SHOULD allow it.

 

The coin was in a glass enclosed display case. I never asked to have the coin taken out for inspection. The reason being, I thought it would be more than I was willing to pay out. It turned out to be less than I thought.

[MarkFeld]

 

Based on what you have posted, the dealer should allow a return and full refund. And if he is an ANA member, I believe that he is obligated to do so.

 

 

[robec1347]

For what it's worth, I have just received contact from the seller. He has graciously agreed to exchange this for another similarly price coin of the same type and grade. In his email to me he expressed the fact that he always wants his customers to be happy, which is the same impression I had in talking to him before the purchase was made.

 

I don't know if this thread had any impact on his email at this time, but thank you all for your input. It is greatly appreciated.

 

Here are a couple of images of the reverse.

 

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

I will add that I don't care if the Seller/Dealer belongs to ANA or PNG or any other local or national numismatic club.

 

He/She/It is obligated to do so because of Integrity.

 

He/She/It promised to conduct themselves with Integrity the moment they decided to deal with the Public, if they had not promised to do so beforehand, on the basis of being a responsible Human Being.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

 

 

[MarkFeld]

For what it's worth, I have just received contact from the seller. He has graciously agreed to exchange this for another similarly price coin of the same type and grade. In his email to me he expressed the fact that he always wants his customers to be happy, which is the same impression I had in talking to him before the purchase was made.

 

I don't know if this thread had any impact on his email at this time, but thank you all for your input. It is greatly appreciated.

 

That sounds very good SO FAR. But hopefully you learned an important lesson and discussed a return privilege for the second/exchange coin.

[robec1347]

For what it's worth, I have just received contact from the seller. He has graciously agreed to exchange this for another similarly price coin of the same type and grade. In his email to me he expressed the fact that he always wants his customers to be happy, which is the same impression I had in talking to him before the purchase was made.

 

I don't know if this thread had any impact on his email at this time, but thank you all for your input. It is greatly appreciated.

 

That sounds very good SO FAR. But hopefully you learned an important lesson and discussed a return privilege for the second/exchange coin.

 

Loud and clear.

[MarkFeld]

For what it's worth, I have just received contact from the seller. He has graciously agreed to exchange this for another similarly price coin of the same type and grade. In his email to me he expressed the fact that he always wants his customers to be happy, which is the same impression I had in talking to him before the purchase was made.

 

I don't know if this thread had any impact on his email at this time, but thank you all for your input. It is greatly appreciated.

 

That sounds very good SO FAR. But hopefully you learned an important lesson and discussed a return privilege for the second/exchange coin.

 

Loud and clear.

 

Whew!

 

[RGT]

The coin was in a glass enclosed display case. I never asked to have the coin taken out for inspection. The reason being, I thought it would be more than I was willing to pay out. It turned out to be less than I thought.

 

Maybe you now know the reason it turned out to be less than you thought it would be.