Star attribute coins....I have a question.

[Buffalo Head]

I was wondering when NGC started assigning the star to their grading? I have a few coins that I think "should" have the star but they're in the older NGC slabs. Just wondering and I can't find the answer .Anybody know?....Joe

[123cents]

I think around the middle of 2000 but I am not sure.

[kryptonitecomics]

I can find articles on when they expanded the designation to other coin series in the beginning of 2002 but I can't find anything more specific so I would say 2000 to 2001 would be an accurate time frame (thumbs u

[Buffalo Head]

I can find articles on when they expanded the designation to other coin series in the beginning of 2002 but I can't find anything more specific so I would say 2000 to 2001 would be an accurate time frame (thumbs u

 

I wonder where the cut off was? Which slabs were not considered for the stars? The old fatties or later than that? Thanks for the help....Joe

 

This is all I can find...

 

NGC assigns a to coins with exceptional eye appeal for their assigned grade.

 

Eye appeal is the most subjective attribute of a coin, but there are norms and standards shared by numismatists. Exceptional eye appeal may include attributes such as vibrant, colorful toning; intense luster; or, in the case of Proof coins, especially strong cameo contrast. To receive a , coins must be free of any obvious planchet irregularities, and display no bothersome spots or blemishes. Toned coins can be of a single color or multicolored but cannot have any areas that are dark brown, approaching black.

 

It’s important to remember that designated coins can fall anywhere within the grades to which they are assigned. For example, an MS 64-graded coin could be at the lower end, mid-range or higher end of that grade.

 

NGC applies the to qualifying US coins in its normal course of grading. It is not used for non-US coins. As they are already of the ultimate grade, any coin graded MS 70 or PF 70 will not be eligible for the . Coins already certified by NGC can be resubmitted and reviewed for using the Designation Review Service, the fee for which is $10.

 

 

[dimefreak]

I dont know the year but the earliest star I seen was in the 900000 serial numbers

[kryptonitecomics]

There were no fat holder stars...I know that for sure..... (thumbs u

 

 

I am guessing around NGC 8.1 which would put us around mid 2000

[MarkFeld]

I was wondering when NGC started assigning the star to their grading? I have a few coins that I think "should" have the star but they're in the older NGC slabs. Just wondering and I can't find the answer .Anybody know?....Joe

 

If you have a nice looking coin in an NGC fatty holder, you'd be nuts to resubmit it for the star.

[Conder101]

In the Miscellaneous section of the book I show a star coin in what is probably an NGC 7 slab. (can't be absolutely sure because the back of the slab is not pictured) That would put it between 1997 and Sept 2000. The pictured coin also has a W color designation white makes me feel fairly comfortable with the time frame.

[MarkFeld]

In the Miscellaneous section of the book I show a star coin in what is probably an NGC 7 slab. (can't be absolutely sure because the back of the slab is not pictured) That would put it between 1997 and Sept 2000. The pictured coin also has a W color designation white makes me feel fairly comfortable with the time frame.

I was at NGC until January 1998. They had not yet begun to use the star designation as of that time. So that narrows the window, somewhat.

[Buffalo Head]

In the Miscellaneous section of the book I show a star coin in what is probably an NGC 7 slab. (can't be absolutely sure because the back of the slab is not pictured) That would put it between 1997 and Sept 2000. The pictured coin also has a W color designation white makes me feel fairly comfortable with the time frame.

I was at NGC until January 1998. They had not yet begun to use the star designation as of that time. So that narrows the window, somewhat.

 

Thanks, I do have a few but not all in the fattie holders but the ones that are not the "finger" holders and not sure how old they are. I guess it doesn't matter so much. I also have some old pcgs rattlers I need to send in to ngc.....Thanks again for the help...Joe

[MarkFeld]

In the Miscellaneous section of the book I show a star coin in what is probably an NGC 7 slab. (can't be absolutely sure because the back of the slab is not pictured) That would put it between 1997 and Sept 2000. The pictured coin also has a W color designation white makes me feel fairly comfortable with the time frame.

I was at NGC until January 1998. They had not yet begun to use the star designation as of that time. So that narrows the window, somewhat.

 

Thanks, I do have a few but not all in the fattie holders but the ones that are not the "finger" holders and not sure how old they are. I guess it doesn't matter so much. I also have some old pcgs rattlers I need to send in to ngc.....Thanks again for the help...Joe

 

Keep those rattlers, too,

[jesbroken]

According to Max Spiegel, they began using the star system in late 2001. He does not remember which month.

Jim

 

edited to add: Mid to late 2001, my bad--Jim

[jom]

Keep those rattlers, too,

 

As one who made the mistake of thinking that the REALITY of the rattlers being somehow higher grade versus the PERCEPTION of the same, I say I agree with this wholehartedly.

 

 

jom

[TonerGuy]

If you have a nice looking coin in an NGC fatty holder, you'd be nuts to resubmit it for the star.

 

Are fatty holders worth a premium ? Or is there another reason for your reasoning ?

[MarkFeld]

If you have a nice looking coin in an NGC fatty holder, you'd be nuts to resubmit it for the star.

 

Are fatty holders worth a premium ? Or is there another reason for your reasoning ?

 

If a coin is in a fatty holder, it means that it hasn't been messed with or directly exposed to the elements in a very long time. So, it's more likely to be stable.

 

Also, if the coin is obviously of premium quality or under-graded, a seller should should be able to get an appropriate premium for it, without having to have it re-graded, crossed over, etc.

 

The above aside, often potential buyers look at coins in older holders through rose-colored glasses.

[Chris1976]

Alot of buyers feel that most of the fatty holders and rattlers are undergraded. Some may be, but as of lately most that have been available around here (N. GA) have been pretty accurate. More and more of the ones that were most likely undergraded have been resubmited for the upgrade or sent onto CAC to verify that the buyer was either correct or not for feeling it was undergraded. Don't get me wrong as I am sure there are still some out there that are in fact undergraded, but not as many as there used to be.

[jom]

From what I've seen the "old rattler" thing is a fantasy in terms of the grading. They have held up well but it isn't some repository of undergraded material.

 

Mark is correct though. If it's in an old holder it at least hasn't been tampered with in a long time.

 

Which begs the question: Why don't the TPG's label the DATE when the coin was graded. It's probably not in their best interest but I think the rest of us would benefit.

 

jom

[Buffalo Head]

If you have a nice looking coin in an NGC fatty holder, you'd be nuts to resubmit it for the star.

 

Are fatty holders worth a premium ? Or is there another reason for your reasoning ?

 

If a coin is in a fatty holder, it means that it hasn't been messed with or directly exposed to the elements in a very long time. So, it's more likely to be stable.

 

Also, if the coin is obviously of premium quality or under-graded, a seller should should be able to get an appropriate premium for it, without having to have it re-graded, crossed over, etc.

 

The above aside, often potential buyers look at coins in older holders through rose-colored glasses.

 

True and well said. Here;s a VERY pretty Buff in a rattler and it's a 38-D a very common Buff, for sure it is. I have a few of these 38-D's, this one's in a rattler but that's not why I purchased it. I bought this one because I feel it is grossly under graded and even if it weren't I still would have bought it as I feel it's one of the nicest ones I ever seen, hands down. This one's graded 65, well I have a 66 that's no where near the quality and over all eye appeal this one displays.

 

 

I also have a 67 same date and may be less than this one.....Joe

[Buffalo Head]

Here's a Buff I feel should have a star next to the grade. This 25-S I purchased from one of our forum members and it's the prettiest 25-S I've seen regardless what the grade is....I have no idea when it was graded. NGC MS-62

 

 

[coinman_23885]

Here's a Buff I feel should have a star next to the grade. This 25-S I purchased from one of our forum members and it's the prettiest 25-S I've seen regardless what the grade is....I have no idea when it was graded. NGC MS-62

 

Why don't you send it in for a designation review with your next submission provided that it is not in a collectible holder? The cost for this service is only $10, and you should be able to have them reholder it too. The coins looks excellent, the holder not so much (it has scuff marks).

[coinman_23885]

From what I've seen the "old rattler" thing is a fantasy in terms of the grading. They have held up well but it isn't some repository of undergraded material.

 

Mark is correct though. If it's in an old holder it at least hasn't been tampered with in a long time.

 

Which begs the question: Why don't the TPG's label the DATE when the coin was graded. It's probably not in their best interest but I think the rest of us would benefit.

 

jom

 

Knowing when the coin was certified is also advantageous for copper coins given that NGC's copper guarantee expires after 10 years. In fact, I contacted NGC previously and asked whether the date a coin was slabbed could be found in the public record (e.g. using the certification verification tool) and the response was that NGC hoped to offer this sometime in the future.

[jom]

Here's a Buff I feel should have a star next to the grade. This 25-S I purchased from one of our forum members and it's the prettiest 25-S I've seen regardless what the grade is....I have no idea when it was graded. NGC MS-62

 

For no apparent reason I can think of, I'd also like to know whether this coin would get a STAR was well.

 

Also, based on good authority which was actually a little bird, I can say the coin has not been graded since September of 2004. Again, based on what a bird told me.

 

jom

[coinman_23885]

Here's a Buff I feel should have a star next to the grade. This 25-S I purchased from one of our forum members and it's the prettiest 25-S I've seen regardless what the grade is....I have no idea when it was graded. NGC MS-62

 

For no apparent reason I can think of, I'd also like to know whether this coin would get a STAR was well.

 

Also, based on good authority which was actually a little bird, I can say the coin has not been graded since September of 2004. Again, based on what a bird told me.

 

jom

 

I'm not a betting person, but if I was, I would put money on the 1925-s Buffalo Nickel receiving a star. I have seen multiple nickels with star designations that don't even compare.

[Buffalo Head]

Here's a Buff I feel should have a star next to the grade. This 25-S I purchased from one of our forum members and it's the prettiest 25-S I've seen regardless what the grade is....I have no idea when it was graded. NGC MS-62

 

For no apparent reason I can think of, I'd also like to know whether this coin would get a STAR was well.

 

Also, based on good authority which was actually a little bird, I can say the coin has not been graded since September of 2004. Again, based on what a bird told me.

 

jom

 

I happen to know for sure that little bird has some very nice coins and this 25-S is testimony of that!! If this coin was graded in 2004 and I'm sure the little bird is right, I wonder why no star?

 

 

I'm not a betting person, but if I was, I would put money on the 1925-s Buffalo Nickel receiving a star. I have seen multiple nickels with star designations that don't even compare.

 

Thanks for sayin!! I love this Buff that Jom sold me and I think he misses it. But I must agree I have also seen some buffs with stars that has nowhere near the eye appeal this coin does. Thanks again for the kind words......Joe

[MarkFeld]

Here's a Buff I feel should have a star next to the grade. This 25-S I purchased from one of our forum members and it's the prettiest 25-S I've seen regardless what the grade is....I have no idea when it was graded. NGC MS-62

 

For no apparent reason I can think of, I'd also like to know whether this coin would get a STAR was well.

 

Also, based on good authority which was actually a little bird, I can say the coin has not been graded since September of 2004. Again, based on what a bird told me.

 

jom

 

I happen to know for sure that little bird has some very nice coins and this 25-S is testimony of that!! If this coin was graded in 2004 and I'm sure the little bird is right, I wonder why no star?

 

 

I'm not a betting person, but if I was, I would put money on the 1925-s Buffalo Nickel receiving a star. I have seen multiple nickels with star designations that don't even compare.

 

Thanks for sayin!! I love this Buff that Jom sold me and I think he misses it. But I must agree I have also seen some buffs with stars that has nowhere near the eye appeal this coin does. Thanks again for the kind words......Joe

 

So, you think that some coins without stars should have received them (and presumably, that some with stars didn't necessarily deserve them).

 

Then why wonder and/or worry about it? Forget about the stinking stars and enjoy the COINS, with or without the (subjective and inconsistent) stars.

[Buffalo Head]

Here's a Buff I feel should have a star next to the grade. This 25-S I purchased from one of our forum members and it's the prettiest 25-S I've seen regardless what the grade is....I have no idea when it was graded. NGC MS-62

 

For no apparent reason I can think of, I'd also like to know whether this coin would get a STAR was well.

 

Also, based on good authority which was actually a little bird, I can say the coin has not been graded since September of 2004. Again, based on what a bird told me.

 

jom

 

I happen to know for sure that little bird has some very nice coins and this 25-S is testimony of that!! If this coin was graded in 2004 and I'm sure the little bird is right, I wonder why no star?

 

 

I'm not a betting person, but if I was, I would put money on the 1925-s Buffalo Nickel receiving a star. I have seen multiple nickels with star designations that don't even compare.

 

Thanks for sayin!! I love this Buff that Jom sold me and I think he misses it. But I must agree I have also seen some buffs with stars that has nowhere near the eye appeal this coin does. Thanks again for the kind words......Joe

 

So, you think that some coins without stars should have received them (and presumably, that some with stars didn't necessarily deserve them).

 

Then why wonder and/or worry about it? Forget about the stinking stars and enjoy the COINS, with or without the (subjective and inconsistent) stars.

 

I've NEVER seen a "star" coin that did not deserve it, never said that. All I'm saying is I think the 25-S is star worthy and "should" have received one..

Trust me I do enjoy my coins, everyday, with or without a star attached to them. I would not be honest if I were to say I don't care if it has a star or not, I do, but I'll still appreciate the coin without it.....Joe

[MarkFeld]

Here's a Buff I feel should have a star next to the grade. This 25-S I purchased from one of our forum members and it's the prettiest 25-S I've seen regardless what the grade is....I have no idea when it was graded. NGC MS-62

 

For no apparent reason I can think of, I'd also like to know whether this coin would get a STAR was well.

 

Also, based on good authority which was actually a little bird, I can say the coin has not been graded since September of 2004. Again, based on what a bird told me.

 

jom

 

I happen to know for sure that little bird has some very nice coins and this 25-S is testimony of that!! If this coin was graded in 2004 and I'm sure the little bird is right, I wonder why no star?

 

 

I'm not a betting person, but if I was, I would put money on the 1925-s Buffalo Nickel receiving a star. I have seen multiple nickels with star designations that don't even compare.

 

Thanks for sayin!! I love this Buff that Jom sold me and I think he misses it. But I must agree I have also seen some buffs with stars that has nowhere near the eye appeal this coin does. Thanks again for the kind words......Joe

 

So, you think that some coins without stars should have received them (and presumably, that some with stars didn't necessarily deserve them).

 

Then why wonder and/or worry about it? Forget about the stinking stars and enjoy the COINS, with or without the (subjective and inconsistent) stars.

 

I've NEVER seen a "star" coin that did not deserve it, never said that. All I'm saying is I think the 25-S is star worthy and "should" have received one..

Trust me I do enjoy my coins, everyday, with or without a star attached to them. I would not be honest if I were to say I don't care if it has a star or not, I do, but I'll still appreciate the coin without it.....Joe

 

That's why I wrote "presumably", rather than that you had said you had seen star coins that you didn't think deserved the stars.

 

Most people I know, who have seen a lot of star coins, have disagreed with a number of them. And that's not the least bit surprising, as we are dealing with a subjective designation.

 

Why do you care that some of your coins don't have the star designation? Does it make you less confident in your OPINION that the coins are especially eye-appealing?

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Here's a Buff I feel should have a star next to the grade. This 25-S I purchased from one of our forum members and it's the prettiest 25-S I've seen regardless what the grade is....I have no idea when it was graded. NGC MS-62

 

For no apparent reason I can think of, I'd also like to know whether this coin would get a STAR was well.

 

Also, based on good authority which was actually a little bird, I can say the coin has not been graded since September of 2004. Again, based on what a bird told me.

 

jom

 

I happen to know for sure that little bird has some very nice coins and this 25-S is testimony of that!! If this coin was graded in 2004 and I'm sure the little bird is right, I wonder why no star?

 

 

I'm not a betting person, but if I was, I would put money on the 1925-s Buffalo Nickel receiving a star. I have seen multiple nickels with star designations that don't even compare.

 

Thanks for sayin!! I love this Buff that Jom sold me and I think he misses it. But I must agree I have also seen some buffs with stars that has nowhere near the eye appeal this coin does. Thanks again for the kind words......Joe

 

So, you think that some coins without stars should have received them (and presumably, that some with stars didn't necessarily deserve them).

 

Then why wonder and/or worry about it? Forget about the stinking stars and enjoy the COINS, with or without the (subjective and inconsistent) stars.

 

 

 

A logical suggestion.

 

Should this suggestion apply to enhanced grading, similar to CAC?

 

If we eliminate the TPG "Market" equation from our numismatic pursuits, should this suggestion be accepted and considered as an alternative to TPG coins?

 

Does not the same subjectivity and inconsistency apply to TPG and enhanced grading labeled coins?

 

To paraprase the words of a person that is multiples above my meager knowledge,

is the Subject not one of those "...I don't know how to describe it, but I know it when I see it..." issues?

 

Now, who REALLY decides the basis of the enjoyment?

 

What is the basis of enjoyment...The TPG encapsulation, the enhanced grading stickers, our fellow collector's admiration, or what it can be sold for?

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

[Buffalo Head]

Here's a Buff I feel should have a star next to the grade. This 25-S I purchased from one of our forum members and it's the prettiest 25-S I've seen regardless what the grade is....I have no idea when it was graded. NGC MS-62

 

For no apparent reason I can think of, I'd also like to know whether this coin would get a STAR was well.

 

Also, based on good authority which was actually a little bird, I can say the coin has not been graded since September of 2004. Again, based on what a bird told me.

 

jom

 

I happen to know for sure that little bird has some very nice coins and this 25-S is testimony of that!! If this coin was graded in 2004 and I'm sure the little bird is right, I wonder why no star?

 

 

I'm not a betting person, but if I was, I would put money on the 1925-s Buffalo Nickel receiving a star. I have seen multiple nickels with star designations that don't even compare.

 

Thanks for sayin!! I love this Buff that Jom sold me and I think he misses it. But I must agree I have also seen some buffs with stars that has nowhere near the eye appeal this coin does. Thanks again for the kind words......Joe

 

So, you think that some coins without stars should have received them (and presumably, that some with stars didn't necessarily deserve them).

 

Then why wonder and/or worry about it? Forget about the stinking stars and enjoy the COINS, with or without the (subjective and inconsistent) stars.

 

 

 

A logical suggestion.

 

Should this suggestion apply to enhanced grading, similar to CAC?

 

If we eliminate the TPG "Market" equation from our numismatic pursuits, should this suggestion be accepted and considered as an alternative to TPG coins?

 

Does not the same subjectivity and inconsistency apply to TPG and enhanced grading labeled coins?

 

To paraprase the words of a person that is multiples above my meager knowledge,

is the Subject not one of those "...I don't know how to describe it, but I know it when I see it..." issues?

 

Now, who REALLY decides the basis of the enjoyment?

 

What is the basis of enjoyment...The TPG encapsulation, the enhanced grading stickers, our fellow collector's admiration, or what it can be sold for?

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

 

The TPG encapsulation, the enhanced grading stickers, our fellow collector's admiration, or what it can be sold for?

All of the above.....Joe

[lcoopie]

if you would like a star

you might like a gold sticker more?