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Re: SEGS (Sovereign Entities Grading Service)

Started by coinman_23885,

18 posts in this topic

coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted

How reliable are they? How much do their grading standards differ from PCGS/NGC? Do they have a reputation for being accurate with designations on the holder (i.e. are all problem coins clearly noted, are the designations reliable, etc.)? Are their attributions accurate (generally and more specifically for Buffalo Nickels)?

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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

Posted
Posted
How reliable are they? How much do their grading standards differ from PCGS/NGC? Do they have a reputation for being accurate with designations on the holder (i.e. are all problem coins clearly noted, are the designations reliable, etc.)? Are their attributions accurate (generally and more specifically for Buffalo Nickels)?

 

I've seen some nice coins in SEGS slabs, but you still have to buy the coin, not the holder.

 

I bought this Pan Pac in a SEGS. It is graded MS63, but I got a substantial discount since it is more likely AU. I love the toning, though.

 

Chris

116087.jpg.4ef2950901d2771d555a719d51fd2bef.jpg

116088.jpg.9b5e7fb160a655d29241c428627a1cb6.jpg

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BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted

SEGS does well with attributions from what I've seen, and I've seen some nice coins in SEGS holders.

 

Sometimes coins go into SEGS holders because they specific problems. For example I once had an 1866 With Rays Shield nickel on consignment in an MS-64 SEGS that was a solid MS-64. The trouble was it had a big lamination on the obverse that was very close to dropping off the coin. The "big boys" probably refused to grade it.

 

I also once had an 1847-C quarter eagle in an MS-64 SEGS holder on consignment. A dealer I knew had an example of same date and mint in a PCGS MS-64 holder. The SEGS coin was $6,000 while the PCGS coin was priced at $20,000. Between the two they were almost identical although the SEGS coin did have a tiny mark, but was still an MS-64 IMO. I sold that SEGS piece to a leading dealer, and I can guarantee you that that piece was cracked out in short order. My advice is to treat SEGS coins as raw coins. Some are potential bargains others give reason to be weary.

 

BTW I think that that Panama – Pacific half dollar is a “slider” with a light rub on the high points. Here is an MS-64 example with which you can compare it. The Pan-Pac half dollar is not an easy coin to grade.

 

PanPacO.jpgPanPacR.jpg

 

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Buffalo Head

Buffalo Head

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Posted

My advice is to treat SEGS coins as raw coins. Some are potential bargains others give reason to be weary.

 

I agree 100% with that statement....GREAT advice....Joe

 

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jom

jom

Posted
Posted
SEGS many times overgrades coins and fails to detect problem coins

 

I think you can replace "SEGS" with "PCGS" or "NGC" in that sentence and not be too far off.

 

jom

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Mr.Mcknowitall

Mr.Mcknowitall

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SEGS many times overgrades coins and fails to detect problem coins

 

I think you can replace "SEGS" with "PCGS" or "NGC" in that sentence and not be too far off.

 

jom

 

Or possibly any of us on any given day.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

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PerryHall

PerryHall

Posted
Posted
My advice is to treat SEGS coins as raw coins.

 

I treat ALL slabbed coins as raw coins. I insist on examining all coins prior to purchasing them including PCGS and NGC. If they were perfect then CAC would go out of business.

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted
How reliable are they? How much do their grading standards differ from PCGS/NGC? Do they have a reputation for being accurate with designations on the holder (i.e. are all problem coins clearly noted, are the designations reliable, etc.)? Are their attributions accurate (generally and more specifically for Buffalo Nickels)?

As with any certified coin, do not buy sight-unseen, and make sure you agree with the grade on the slab before committing to the purchase.

 

SEGS attributions are outstanding, and I doubt there's anything anyone can throw at them that they can't attribute. And despite a mistake discussed here on the boards a couple of years ago, they are superb at determining authenticity correctly.

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jom

jom

Posted
Posted
My advice is to treat SEGS coins as raw coins.

 

I treat ALL slabbed coins as raw coins. I insist on examining all coins prior to purchasing them including PCGS and NGC. If they were perfect then CAC would go out of business.

 

Just CAC? I would think NGC and PCGS would have a difficult go at it as well with the lack of resubmissions. Which makes you wonder if that is a conflict of interest.

 

jom

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mrearlygold

mrearlygold

Posted
Posted

This coin started it's slabbed life in a SEGS 61 holder. I can also post images showing me opening the segs slab with my bare hands! Wanna see? :sumo:

 

d6a61_1813_$5_ANACS_AU55_Tooled_74782289_o.jpg

 

There's also a thread ats that has a lot of replies with grade guesses hm. There's a big difference in values and this coin probably would have sold for more had I left it in the segs holder. I couldn't let the coin sit like that.

 

BTW, IMO they are all wrong.

 

 

 

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noow

noow

Posted
Posted
SEGS many times overgrades coins and fails to detect problem coins

 

I think you can replace "SEGS" with "PCGS" or "NGC" in that sentence and not be too far off.

 

jom

^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted

The one SEGS slab I have is that of a token in an MS-64 holder. Without a doubt the obverse of the token is cleaned and lost its cartwheel luster, so way overgraded. I have heard others express similar issues with tokens/coins in SEGS slabs.

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mhomei

mhomei

Posted
Posted

I really dont think intentional over grading is an issue at SEGS

but these overgrading slabbed coins can be found and posted in all the

top tier graders slabs.

that is the main reason people say buy the coin not the holder

and I am also sure there are people here who got undergraded graded coins and resubmitted after they cracked it out.

their attributions are excellent and their slab are extremely tough to open and are durable as well, so maybe it is an older slab or a fake slab

its a very very nice coin either way.

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted
I really dont think intentional over grading is an issue at SEGS

but these overgrading slabbed coins can be found and posted in all the

top tier graders slabs.

that is the main reason people say buy the coin not the holder

and I am also sure there are people here who got undergraded graded coins and resubmitted after they cracked it out.

their attributions are excellent and their slab are extremely tough to open and are durable as well, so maybe it is an older slab or a fake slab

its a very very nice coin either way.

 

Sorry mate, so overgraded because of the harshly cleaned obverse that even a caveman could see it - I have never seen this kind of whacked out way out of reality grade for a cleaned coin in an PCGS or NGC holder. So that to me, albeit with one very obvious example, is called blatant overgrading in the worst sense because it mis-represents. Having said that, maybe SEGS knocked off two points (i.e. from 66) because of the harsh cleaning? :roflmao:

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Houston Investor

Houston Investor

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Posted

I treat SEGS coins as raw coins (MS 60 Bid and lower). They are rated lower by the CDN Certified Market indicator compared to all 4 grading services accepted by Ebay and Teletrade ANACS, PCGS, NGC, ICG.

 

NGC tops PCGS 82.18% vs 81.73% (Sep 30 Greysheet). SEGS at 47.53%. So a buy offer of 50% of Bid on SEGS coins if that much would be a likely buy offer IMO.

 

At a recent show a guy had a slab box full of SEGS coins. I initially thought it was a joke when he offered them to a dealer next to me as almost nobody I know of had that many SEGS coins. The deaker's buy offer was areound 40% of CDN Bid and the buyer made a comment about being lowballed. The dealer told him laughing "well go shop them around then." The seller then offered them to me and after briefly looking, I simply told him no interest and pointed him in the direction of a guy that might buy them. Many of the ones SEGS graded unc looked AU ish or seemed problem and I am skittish of non mainstream TPG's.

 

We were glad we did not buy any of the SEGS coins as a guy came up and had a box full of mainly PCGS slabs with the rest NGC slabs, some really nice coins. The dealer next to me bought a few at 75% of CDN Bid. He flipped some later in the show to a dealer who has a website of big ticket material. I picked up almost all the rest myself as the price was right and all I had to do was follow the lead block to complete my deal.

 

The 1813 $5 Gold is an interesting example - thanks for sharing.

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