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4 grades higher!?

Started by nangu,

10 posts in this topic

nangu

nangu

Posted
Posted

What explanation can be offered for a modern gold coin being graded 4 grades higher after being conserved ("cleaned") by NCS?

 

I submitted a 1986 South Africa 1/2oz Proof Krugerrand to NGC and it came back PF65UC, which I though was low --- see 2764683-004; don't know if you can see any problems on the images except for the unsightly fingerprint (which I'm pretty sure was not there when I submitted this coin, but that is another issue ... ).

 

I cracked it out and sent it to NCS to get the fingerprint removed along with other surface-marks and graded again; and this time it came back as PF69UC --- see 3540651-004. How can a "cleaning" result in 4 grades higher? Was the initial submission undergraded so much, or is this new submission overgraded? While one might expect a small variance in grades/regrades, such a large change is a surprise. Makes me wonder about the grades received for the other coins in my initial submission.

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FishyOne

FishyOne

Posted
Posted

Take my opinion with a grain of salt but.......after looking at the images, it seems you had an under-graded coin at 65 and now have an over-graded coin at 69.

 

This is based only on the NGC images: A 66 to a 68 seems appropriate here.

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BillJones

BillJones

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A fingerprint can be a very big negative on a coin when you are looking for a high grade. Until it has been removed no one can say that it CAN be removed. Therefore you got a comparatively low grade on your coin. For a modern piece PR-65 is a low grade.

 

After it was conserved they have now called it PR-69 because, I would hope, no trace of the fingerprint can be detected. If it can detected, even slightly, the coin is over graded IMO. The coin looks really nice from the photo, but you can’t determine the difference between PR-67, 68, 69 or 70 from a photo so I can’t comment about how accurate the PR-69 grade is.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted
What explanation can be offered for a modern gold coin being graded 4 grades higher after being conserved ("cleaned") by NCS?

 

I submitted a 1986 South Africa 1/2oz Proof Krugerrand to NGC and it came back PF65UC, which I though was low --- see 2764683-004; don't know if you can see any problems on the images except for the unsightly fingerprint (which I'm pretty sure was not there when I submitted this coin, but that is another issue ... ).

 

I cracked it out and sent it to NCS to get the fingerprint removed along with other surface-marks and graded again; and this time it came back as PF69UC --- see 3540651-004. How can a "cleaning" result in 4 grades higher? Was the initial submission undergraded so much, or is this new submission overgraded? While one might expect a small variance in grades/regrades, such a large change is a surprise. Makes me wonder about the grades received for the other coins in my initial submission.

 

The surfaces underneath were always PR69; however, eye appeal is a large factor in grading. The fingerprints, haze, and ugly debris/toning can all be grade limiting. When removed, the original surfaces are restored. This isn't a surprise to me.

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braddick

braddick

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Posted

What is the value difference between the two grades? When you discover it is negligible then the answer is no longer surprising.

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x2rider

x2rider

Posted
Posted
A fingerprint can be a very big negative on a coin when you are looking for a high grade. Until it has been removed no one can say that it CAN be removed. Therefore you got a comparatively low grade on your coin. For a modern piece PR-65 is a low grade.

 

After it was conserved they have now called it PR-69 because, I would hope, no trace of the fingerprint can be detected. If it can detected, even slightly, the coin is over graded IMO. The coin looks really nice from the photo, but you can’t determine the difference between PR-67, 68, 69 or 70 from a photo so I can’t comment about how accurate the PR-69 grade is.

 

Have to agree 100% with Bill

I have one CBH with a thumbprint on it and I wouldn't of bought it if I had seen it on the images :(

1823cbh112-1.jpg

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
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What explanation can be offered for a modern gold coin being graded 4 grades higher after being conserved ("cleaned") by NCS?

I hope you are not equating "cleaning" to "conservation".

 

The two are entirely different terms, and refer to entirely different processes.

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nangu

nangu

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What is the value difference between the two grades? When you discover it is negligible then the answer is no longer surprising.

Ideally the grade given should be solely according to the Sheldon scale and not influenced at all by the difference in values at various grades!

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gmarguli

gmarguli

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Posted

Fingerprints can continue to etch the surfaces over time. Therefore, the TPG should be careful on the grade assigned for a modern coin. Also, the TPG have no reason to give a high grade to a modern coin that has any problems that could likely be removed with a simple dip.

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