CICF 2011 Observations

[gmarguli]

The just concluded CICF show was interesting. What was being billed as the largest CICF show appeared to be no larger than last year. Perhaps the number of dealers attending was larger, but not the overall size of the floor? I noticed several dealers that used to occupy a section of the floor now having the same sized section, but having one or two other dealers sharing it.

 

Wholesale seemed to be decent. Lots of dealers were saying that they were doing decent buying/selling with other dealers. However, the most repeated complaint was that there were very little new coins on the floor. The auctions also didn't have a lot of exciting material. Not awful, but just not a lot of exciting coins.

 

Retail was awful. The retail crowd was nonexistent. On Saturday there are usually 50-75 people waiting for the doors to open. This time I saw under 10. Dealers seemed really stunned at this. I never had trouble getting a seat at the popular dealers table. Aisles were empty. Shockingly fee retail buyers. Heritage put on a large auction and there was some chatter that while they did a great job of the auction, it may have had a negative affect on the attendance of the show. Many dealers left early. I saw a lot of empty booths on Saturday afternoon. The fact that it is fairly (relatively) inexpensive to do the show was probably the best thing for dealers as few seemed to be making a lot of money.

 

Many of the international dealers did not show up for this show. They didn't just not take a table, but they skipped the entire show altogether which was a little surprising given the very weak dollar.

 

A thief was working the room. I'm sitting at a dealer's table with the case propped open and he and his assistant are behind the table. I'm pulling out coins to look at and while examining one I notice a hand very quickly reach into the case. I look up to see someone walking away and then look into the case to see that the coin I was just looking at is now gone. I yell to the dealer to get security and explain to the assistant what happened while we watch the guy move around the room. Security brought him over to the table to empty his pockets, but the coin was not to be found.

[World Colonial]

I have neve been to the CICF or the NYINC but have always wanted to go. However, aside form the expense, I have bene rather dubious that I would have much success in finding much for what I collect anyway.

 

As for the Heritage auction, I only look at the countries that I have any interest and for those, there were a few coins that were really interesting but not many and I am not buying now anyway. Particularly the 1855 and 1857 Ecuador 4R in AU-58 and MS-61. Those are almost impossible to find in any decent grade and I have only seen a handful in 10 years like those two.

[WinstonWare]

Interesting. Thanks for the report.

[EVillageProwler]

Greg,

 

When I was at PK's table looking at stuff, he had his case wide open for me. Some tire-kicker was inappropriately reaching into the case and I had shift my arm and body to obstruct the guy.

 

EVP

[Conder101]

The overall size of the show floor was larger, they did add another ballroom to the floor. I don't think the number of dealers was greater though since many of the tables in that extra room were taken up by the Krause tables and some other club tables.

 

I had an enjoyable time, but as usual didn't find anything. Only two dealers had more than a few Conders. Moneta had a nice selection and in very nice condition but nothing I didn't already have. Harlen Berk had some very nice pieces but almost all of them were Angelesy which I don't collect. Most of them weren't attributed either, and of the ones that were about 20% were misattributed.

 

For me the interesting story of the show was the Mint State Athenian Tetradramn from the Heritage auction. Lot 45, MS with a photocertificate from NGC sold for 600K, and then came back the next day because it was a fake. (it had a real big multi-page write up in the printed catalog, Unfortunately you can't see it because they have already pulled it out of the online catalog.)

[JCM-Houston]

Thanks for the report. I did not get to make it up due to work requirments but hope to make NYINC and CICF next year.

 

I bought a couple of things in the Heritage sale which I needed for some sets. My view was there were a lot of regular average grade things, for example in the British section quite a few Victoria pieces in MS64/65, and these seemed to sell pretty cheap. Scarce and really high grade (MS66 and up) seemed to sell for decent money though. I bought the 1935 VIP Halfpenny in PF 66 (Freeman 425, R18 , 6-15 known, finest of the 2 graded) and had to pay up for that one, I also bought the 1806 Farthing in 66BN (pop 3/0 including a 66RB) and did not get it for a bargain price, but the 1745 Lima Shilling in 63 (not rare and not particularly high grade) I thought I got for a very good price.

[physics-fan3.14]

I bought a couple of really nice and hard to find shillings in the Heritage auction. Scored a Phillip and Mary and a Commonwealth type shilling. They went for what I thought were pretty strong prices, but the ones I got are almost impossible to find in mid-circulated grades with problem free surfaces and original condition.

[Taler Universe]

I wonder if this is a fundamental change in market structure given the mass presence of online sellers (with solid photography) along with auctions held at the venue.

[JCM-Houston]

I was also watching the Phillip and Mary Shilling but it got out of my comfort zone pretty quickly, that was a very nice coin.

[HiHoAudio]

I wonder if this is a fundamental change in market structure given the mass presence of online sellers (with solid photography) along with auctions held at the venue.

 

Good observation. I used to go to every single NYC coin and paper money show but these days I find myself making excuses.

 

Once you find a few good online sellers that specialize in your collecting area you really don't need to go to the big shows anymore. :frown:

[HiHoAudio]

Greg,

 

When I was at PK's table looking at stuff, he had his case wide open for me. Some tire-kicker was inappropriately reaching into the case and I had shift my arm and body to obstruct the guy.

 

EVP

 

If I were a dealer at shows these days I would have a video camera on a tall tripod constantly feeding a laptop that would record all activity at my table.

 

It doesn't cost that much and it may deter the bad guys from shoplifting at your table.

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

I was also watching the Phillip and Mary Shilling but it got out of my comfort zone pretty quickly, that was a very nice coin.

 

 

It went for quite a bit more than I was originally hoping. However, I know how scarce these are, especially in a nice original condition. Just look at the heritage archives - even the ones they have sold almost all have problems. So, I raised my bid a bit just to make sure I got it. This one is going deep into the permanent collection.

[shirohniichan]

For me the interesting story of the show was the Mint State Athenian Tetradramn from the Heritage auction. Lot 45, MS with a photocertificate from NGC sold for 600K, and then came back the next day because it was a fake. (it had a real big multi-page write up in the printed catalog, Unfortunately you can't see it because they have already pulled it out of the online catalog.)