Daniel Carr Peace - Graded

[bsshog40]

So what's the difference between the DCarr coins and this Ebay Copy coin? Besides the word Copy on the coin.

[robec1347]

So what's the difference between the DCarr coins and this Ebay Copy coin? Besides the word Copy on the coin.

 

DCarr's is an authentic Peace dollar that is overstruck. The eBay Peace is probably not even silver, let alone a real Peace dollar.

[TheMightyDuke]

So what's the difference between the DCarr coins and this Ebay Copy coin? Besides the word Copy on the coin.

 

DCarr's is an authentic Peace dollar that is overstruck. The eBay Peace is probably not even silver, let alone a real Peace dollar.

 

There is a question to the seller, and the seller states that it is clad, silver layered. I DID run across a seller that is allegedly doing the 'struck on silver planchets' thing, though.

[PerryHall]

I didn't ask for your opinion.

 

Posting on a message board is a de facto "asking for one's opinion."

 

Welcome to the internet!

 

(thumbs u

 

Agree. We don't need your permission to express an opinion.

[jerseycat10]

I didn't ask for your opinion.

 

Posting on a message board is a de facto "asking for one's opinion."

 

Welcome to the internet!

 

(thumbs u

 

Agree. We don't need your permission to express an opinion.

 

Wrong, I asked a specific question, and his flame-baiting effectively hijacked my thread.

 

In case you didn't notice, my original question was instantly lost in translation.

[JStull]

So what's the difference between the DCarr coins and this Ebay Copy coin? Besides the word Copy on the coin.

 

They're both junk!

[JStull]

 

Wrong, I asked a specific question, and his flame-baiting effectively hijacked my thread.

 

In case you didn't notice, my original question was instantly lost in translation.

 

Your thread, regardless of what was asked in the OP, is about a highly controversial item that has a large buzz on more than 1 numismatic forum, and as such opens the door for any and all opinions.

 

If you think ANACS is anything to brag about because they slabbed your junk piece, it means nothing. The label is marked accordingly, REPLICA as that is what this is.

 

Good thing PCGS and NGC have better sense to allow garbage like that under their labels.

 

[BillJones]

 

Wrong, I asked a specific question, and his flame-baiting effectively hijacked my thread.

 

In case you didn't notice, my original question was instantly lost in translation.

 

Your thread, regardless of what was asked in the OP, is about a highly controversial item that has a large buzz on more than 1 numismatic forum, and as such opens the door for any and all opinions.

 

If you think ANACS is anything to brag about because they slabbed your junk piece, it means nothing. The label is marked accordingly, REPLICA as that is what this is.

 

Good thing PCGS and NGC have better sense to allow garbage like that under their labels.

 

Bravo!!!!!!!

 

Mr. Carr is far from done with his exploits. ATS he indicated that he is thinking about minting a 1975 quarter. For those who are new to the hobby, no 1975 dated quarters were minted because all of the 1975-6 quarters, half dollars and dollar coins were minted with the Bicentennial era date 1776-1976. This 1975 quarter would be a “fantasy piece” presumably without the word “COPY” or “REPLICA” or any other notation that it is not a U.S. Government minted coin.

 

Mr. Carr has also issued a one ounce “20 Trade Dollar” coin. Within its design are the words, “United States of America,” “Liberty,” and “E Pluribus Unum.” There is no indicator that this piece is not a United States Government product. Even though the design is not from any U.S. coin past or present, it still begs that question as to whether it is legal to issue a piece with the phrases from U.S. coinage and denomination on it without some marking that it is not U.S. coinage.

 

[Arizonadesertrat]

Carr is playing a dangerous game. He is making money now, but could easily lose all of it (and more) should he need legal representation.

 

Regardless, there will be uninformed people who will get taken by these fantasy pieces. There are already fantasy $50 gold slugs (made from recovered S.S. America gold, George Morgan $100 Gold Union, etc.), and I know of people who paid significant premiums to buy them (partly because the slabs added an aura of respectability), only to discover afterwards that reputable dealers view them as little more than bullion items.

 

This may titilate some coin collectors, but it really isn't good for the hobby.

[bsshog40]

Yes I do believe there will be a lot more contraversial issues pertaining to these replica, fantasy pieces coming out. When makers start taking letters belonging to US Minted Coins, I think soon there will be some retaliation form the Gov't before too much of it gets out of hand. There are too many counterfieters as it is to have to worry about people making up thier own american coins to confuse unknowledgeable buyers in the market.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I didn't ask for your opinion.

 

Posting on a message board is a de facto "asking for one's opinion."

 

Welcome to the internet!

 

(thumbs u

 

Agree. We don't need your permission to express an opinion.

 

Wrong,

 

No, that's pretty much dead on correct.

 

I asked a specific question, and his flame-baiting effectively hijacked my thread.

 

In case you didn't notice, my original question was instantly lost in translation.

 

Your other concerns aside, when you post on a public message board, you take what comes, including the "hijacking" of a thread. If you don't like that method of communication, there are always private messages. Again...welcome to the internet!

[rrantique]

I didn't ask for your opinion.

 

Posting on a message board is a de facto "asking for one's opinion."

 

Welcome to the internet!

 

(thumbs u

 

Agree. We don't need your permission to express an opinion.

 

 

 

[bsshog40]

Cute Irvin!

[TonerGuy]

So what's the difference between the DCarr coins and this Ebay Copy coin? Besides the word Copy on the coin.

 

About $300....

 

 

[TheMightyDuke]

I'll say this...alot of his past series/pieces have done quite well in the secondary market. And all the discussion, whether good or bad, is a boon to what he's already made. Whether he's treading on dangerous ground with the 'potential' '75 Washie, I have no idea....but I do know he's no dummy, and I don't see him actually crossing that line knowingly (he does alot of homework, but if you're not thorough enough, well, anything can happen). I'm not saying anything negative, or ill-wishes to/about Mr. Carr. I think if he knew it shouldn't be made, he wouldn't. His homework on his '64-D Peace dollar overstrike w/out 'copy' or 'replica' must have, well, HAD to have been, impeccable.

 

As an aside, to have your OWN coining press, and being able to make ANYTHING, ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING you wanted to.....that must be cool (I know there's the argument 'is it legal'...I'm not going that deep...I'm just sayin' it must be cool).

 

 

I'll edit this to add......I HAVE made some good $ on my original investment on some of his pieces (the '64-D Peace was good to me), and I know the current prices realized on some other pieces of his that I own...not too bad overall, not too bad at all.

[dcarr]

I know this coin/token is polarizing, but I am ok with it for the following reasons.

 

1) No 1964-D coins exists according to the US govt, so this can't be considered a countetfeit.

 

This is completely false. A known example is not needed for a coin to be counterfeit. The government considers the nonexistent date Mercury dimes to be counterfeit. Also, what happens if the Smithsonian suddenly discovers an example of this coin. Do these Carr coins suddenly go from being not counterfeit to counterfeit?

 

2) This coin contains special die markers indicating it's origin.

 

So do the Omega counterfeit 1907 HR $20. I guess those aren't counterfeit anymore?

 

 

Bravo! gmarguli (thumbs u

 

Mr. Carr is a regular participant ATS, and he showed up yesterday commenting about what his next project might be. There could be a 1975 quarter in your future. For those who might not realize it, all quarters that were minted in 1975 carried the duel date “1776-1976”

 

I felt like responding to this brazen counterfeiter with a piece of my mind, but I held my fingers. I figured I’d get banned over there for attacking another member.

 

Here are my opinions of Mr. Carr’s enterprise.

 

If he makes the 1975 quarter, he will be one step ahead of the Chinese counterfeits. Since he home grown, I see no reason why the government should not shut his operation down.

 

"Brazen Counterfeiter" is a harsh term. Falsely claiming that someone or some company is engaged in a felony is a very serious form of libel/slander.

 

The fact is, there is nothing illegal about what I do, since I produce the coins by altering genuine Peace Dollars (without adding or removing any metal and without heating or melting). I offer the "1964-D" over-struck Peace Silver Dollars with full disclosure of the relevant facts of origin. I made sure the numismatic world knew all the particulars (via internet articles, Coin World, etc.). For anyone thinking of buying one in the future, all they have to do is a quick search on the internet and they will see several articles about the "Carr" Peace Dollars right at the top of the search results.

 

If I take a "1971" quarter and carve it to look like a "1975" (which is a date that was never produced by the US Mint), it is no different than a "Hobo" nickel.

 

If I make "1975" quarters, they will be counter-stamped on genuine Washington Quarter coins.

[bsshog40]

From my understanding, altering of coins can be done as long as they aren't altered to represent a coin that can be mistaken for a circulating coin. Am I right? The hobo nickel would definitely never be mistaken for a regular nickel, however, I do think that a 1975 Quarter could be, especially from people who have never given it a thought or don't have that much numismatic knowledge. I think it would be easy to take a 1975 quarter and spend it anywhere without anyone noticing any difference between it or a regular quarter. JMO

[dcarr]

From my understanding, altering of coins can be done as long as they aren't altered to represent a coin that can be mistaken for a circulating coin. Am I right? The hobo nickel would definitely never be mistaken for a regular nickel, however, I do think that a 1975 Quarter could be, especially from people who have never given it a thought or don't have that much numismatic knowledge. I think it would be easy to take a 1975 quarter and spend it anywhere without anyone noticing any difference between it or a regular quarter. JMO

 

Yes, that could be possible (to spend one without really noticing it).

But there would be no harm done since it would be a full-weight regular legal-tender quarter which was counterstamped.

 

People spend "Where's George" dollar bills all the time without noticing or caring.

Same for the recipient of them.

 

[johnny9434]

I didn't ask for your opinion.

 

Posting on a message board is a de facto "asking for one's opinion."

 

Welcome to the internet!

 

(thumbs u

 

Agree. We don't need your permission to express an opinion.

 

 

 

the current economy?

[rrantique]

"Graded - F[ake]"

 

 

Just saying

 

 

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/usc.cgi?ACTION=RETRIEVE&FILE=$$xa$$busc15.wais&start=9182341&SIZE=2553&TYPE=TEXT

 

b) Coins and other numismatic items

 

The manufacture in the United States, or the importation into the

United States, for introduction into or distribution in commerce of any

imitation numismatic item which is not plainly and permanently marked

``copy'', is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or practice in

commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act [15 U.S.C. 41 et seq.].

 

 

[JStull]

"Graded - F[ake]"

 

 

Just saying

 

 

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/usc.cgi?ACTION=RETRIEVE&FILE=$$xa$$busc15.wais&start=9182341&SIZE=2553&TYPE=TEXT

 

b) Coins and other numismatic items

 

The manufacture in the United States, or the importation into the

United States, for introduction into or distribution in commerce of any

imitation numismatic item which is not plainly and permanently marked

``copy'', is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or practice in

commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act [15 U.S.C. 41 et seq.].

 

 

Except for Danny boy!

[robec1347]

"Graded - F[ake]"

 

 

Just saying

 

 

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/usc.cgi?ACTION=RETRIEVE&FILE=$$xa$$busc15.wais&start=9182341&SIZE=2553&TYPE=TEXT

 

b) Coins and other numismatic items

 

The manufacture in the United States, or the importation into the

United States, for introduction into or distribution in commerce of any

imitation numismatic item which is not plainly and permanently marked

``copy'', is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or practice in

commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act [15 U.S.C. 41 et seq.].

 

 

Except for Danny boy!

 

I think the difference here is that it is not illegal to deface or alter a coin if not attempting or intending to pass the coin off as, in this case an authentic U.S. Mint manufactured 1964-D Peace dollar. Mr. Carr did not manufacture this coin, it is an authentic, US mint made Peace dollar from the years 1922-1935. It has just been defaced or altered with well documented descriptions and diagnostics showing his intent is not one of deception.

[RWB]

B.S. A selfserving rationalization.

[robec1347]

B.S. A selfserving rationalization.

 

Please explain how I'm being selfserving? Do I have a partnership I don't know about?

 

You are entitled to your opinion, as is the case with all of us. The only opinion that counts will be in a court of law, if that even happens. Attacking my opinion with your rude and rather childish remark will not change it.

[JStull]

"Graded - F[ake]"

 

 

Just saying

 

 

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/usc.cgi?ACTION=RETRIEVE&FILE=$$xa$$busc15.wais&start=9182341&SIZE=2553&TYPE=TEXT

 

b) Coins and other numismatic items

 

The manufacture in the United States, or the importation into the

United States, for introduction into or distribution in commerce of any

imitation numismatic item which is not plainly and permanently marked

``copy'', is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or practice in

commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act [15 U.S.C. 41 et seq.].

 

 

Except for Danny boy!

 

I think the difference here is that it is not illegal to deface or alter a coin if not attempting or intending to pass the coin off as, in this case an authentic U.S. Mint manufactured 1964-D Peace dollar. Mr. Carr did not manufacture this coin, it is an authentic, US mint made Peace dollar from the years 1922-1935. It has just been defaced or altered with well documented descriptions and diagnostics showing his intent is not one of deception.

 

Danny, manufactured the date, and did so for a profit.

[robec1347]

Wouldn't be much point to run a business without profit.

 

I don't think there is much chance in anyone purchasing one of these thinking they are getting the real thing. If anyone wants to spend millions to get one thinking they are the real deal, I wouldn't feel bad for them in the least.

[RWB]

crooks make "profits" too.....they just don't do it legitimately.

 

PS: the substrate used is immaterial - it is the final product that counts.

[robec1347]

crooks make "profits" too.....they just don't do it legitimately.

 

PS: the substrate used is immaterial - it is the final product that counts.

 

So you're calling Dan Carr a crook? I guess you are judge, jury and executioner.

[RWB]

The comment is yours, not mine.

 

Emotional, aren't you? Often a sign of guilty feelings...

[dcarr]

The comment is yours, not mine.

 

Emotional, aren't you? Often a sign of guilty feelings...

 

 

I see that you edited your previous post and removed the "porkchop" and "PMS" references you made about another poster. That ranked right up there on the disturbing meter along with your post about putting cats in meat grinders.

 

You are entitled to your opinion as we all are. But falsely accusing someone or some company of a felony or of being a crook is a very serious form of libel.