Looks like the NGC forum got the attention of PCGS. 0

[truthteller]

I guess they're a bit nervous.

 

 

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=273690

 

 

TRUTH

[BushMan]

Truth- Hope you noticed that the originator of that thread also posts here:

 

LINK

Obviously, HisRoyalHighness owes the hobby, NGC and PNG a sincere apology. I'm quite sure that will never happen, as he simply doesn't know any better.

[truthteller]

 

Yeah, I see he posts here, although his posts are disingenuous. Just look at the signature line:

 

"This is my Forum of choice (when PCGS is down)."

 

 

 

 

 

 

TRUTH

[truthteller]

WOW, there are now six threads talking about NGC across the street. Maybe tomorrow NGC threads might outnumber PCGS threads. You can't buy better publicity for NGC.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[TomB]

I don't read the PCGS boards anymore, however, I followed the links and read the relevant threads and came away with one overwhelming impression. That is, I'm actually quite saddened and dismayed by some of the statements made by board members on both boards. Broad statements about either company can be attributed to enthusiastic allegiance or ignorance, however, the statements about the board members are petty and mean-spirited. It's depressing...we are all members of a relatively small niche.

[MAULEMALL]

Wow......I just read through all of it and I am a bit surprised by some of the attacking thats going on.

Some of those guys need to go get a breath of fresh air, Rub some sunshine on their face and relax.

 

It's like watching a little league football game.

 

Kinda sad really.

[K6AZ]

As I stated across the street, I don't understand this us vs. them thing. I buy and sell both PCGS and NGC coins, though I think NGC is a bit more lenient in Morgan Dollars graded above 65, as well as some of the key dates. I really could care less who endorses PCGS or NGC.

 

Side note to Patrick - Get a hold of me. I sent you a question through eBay and you never answered me.

[jom]

though I think NGC is a bit more lenient in Morgan Dollars graded above 65, as well as some of the key dates

 

Since you are a dealer in these coins and you seem to be a reasonable guy: Tell me, does NGC being "lenient" on these dollars really mean they aren't as good a grading service as PCGS? Another words do you favor being "tight" rather than being "consistant"?

 

Thanks

 

jom

[ms66quarters]

K6AZ,

 

I agree with you...on the us vs. them scenario.I've been reading some of the post's on both side's,and for the life of me I get this perception that some of these people take this to personal.NGC can't grade..PCGS can't grade....I guess if they can't grade(TPG's) maybe the one's complaining should do all the grading!

 

For me,like some of the people on these board's the endorsement does'nt matter to me.But from a business stand point,NGC has already garnered alot of publicity...so kudo's to them.

 

Rob

[K6AZ]

though I think NGC is a bit more lenient in Morgan Dollars graded above 65, as well as some of the key dates

 

Since you are a dealer in these coins and you seem to be a reasonable guy: Tell me, does NGC being "lenient" on these dollars really mean they aren't as good a grading service as PCGS? Another words do you favor being "tight" rather than being "consistant"?

 

Thanks

 

jom

 

I don't know, I have found both PCGS and NGC to be pretty consistent lately. NGC is on par most of the time with PCGS on circulated coins up through MS65, but very loose above MS65. I find these comments about being consistent interesting, because "consistent" is usually a buzzword for people who submitted and did not get the high grades they wanted.

[BushMan]

don't know, I have found both PCGS and NGC to be pretty consistent lately. NGC is on par most of the time with PCGS on circulated coins up through MS65, but very loose above MS65. I find these comments about being consistent interesting, because "consistent" is usually a buzzword for people who submitted and did not get the high grades they wanted.

Total bs and completely inconsistent with your posts across the street. A hypocrite attempting to appease. You have consistently accused NGC of grading 1/2 point to a full point over that of PCGS. Try again.

[K6AZ]

Total bs and completely inconsistent with your posts across the street. A hypocrite attempting to appease. You have consistently accused NGC of grading 1/2 point to a full point over that of PCGS. Try again.

 

Oh really? Care to provide a link to back up your statement?

 

I see you haven't changed one bit. You are another one of the 'us vs. them' people.

[gmarguli]

I don't know, I have found both PCGS and NGC to be pretty consistent lately. NGC is on par most of the time with PCGS on circulated coins up through MS65, but very loose above MS65. I find these comments about being consistent interesting, because "consistent" is usually a buzzword for people who submitted and did not get the high grades they wanted.

 

NGC is slightly looser above MS65, but I believe that is a good thing. With PCGS you have a grade distribution like this:

 

MS66: 131

MS67: 52

MS68: 0

 

With NGC it is frequently:

MS66: 127

MS67: 43

MS68: 7

 

Some people point to this as NCG being looser or PCGS be more conservative. I believe it shows that NGC is being more accurate in its grading. With PCGS they have lumped a bunch of coins into one top grade. Perhaps all those coins do technically grade MS67. However, the marketplace values the higher quality examples more than the lower quality examples. With PCGS you have to take the dealers word or know how to grade them. With NGC they have put the top few "possibly technically MS67", yet superb for the grade coins into a higher grade slab to separate them from the rest. Basically, they have helped rank the quality of the coins. PCGS has taken MS66.8-to-MS68.2 coins and put them in MS67 slabs. NGC has taken the MS67.8+ coins and put them in MS68 slabs.

[MAULEMALL]

don't know, I have found both PCGS and NGC to be pretty consistent lately. NGC is on par most of the time with PCGS on circulated coins up through MS65, but very loose above MS65. I find these comments about being consistent interesting, because "consistent" is usually a buzzword for people who submitted and did not get the high grades they wanted.

Total BS and completely inconsistent with your posts across the street. A hypocrite attempting to appease. You have consistently accused NGC of grading 1/2 point to a full point over that of PCGS. Try again.

 

Hey Bushman ,I know Eric personally and I say Eric is one of the good guys.

 

 

He is very knowledgeable and shares his knowledge with anyone who would ask.

He is also loyal and isn't afraid to speak his mind even when Al H was threatening lawsuits.

He gave me the heads up on ACG and has gone above and beyond for this Hobby.

[K6AZ]

Greg, you may be correct. I try to stay away from supergrade Morgans, and in fact, my two 66s were coins that I thought were 65s. No matter how you slice it though, on the 66s and above, the market signigicantly discounts the coins in NGC holders, with the exception of sight seen bids at auction.

 

One more thing I should add for the people that think I am a total PCGS supporter. Since Jan 1 2003, I have submitted 24 coins to PCGS. In that same time frame, I have submitted 186 coins to NGC.

[K6AZ]

Thanks Patrick, appreciate that.

 

I sent you a PM with my phone number, you can call anytime.

[jom]

Some people point to this as NCG being looser or PCGS be more conservative.

 

And who are those "some people"? They are newbies who collect moderns and other such newer material you would normally see in such high grades. And there are even veterans who would complain about this because they think they can really tell the difference between a 67 and a 68 on a CONSISTANT basis when they really can't. I can't but I don't complain about it.

 

After being in this market for 12 years now I can say the only problem I've seen with NGC coins was there previous tendancy to overgrade dull/lifeless toned pieces. I believe that hasn't been a problem for a number of years now BUT many of the coins still linger in their holders it it gives them a bad rep even to this day.

 

jom

[BushMan]

Oh really? Care to provide a link to back up your statement?

Here is just one example.

"There is no question that PCGS Morgans are overall nicer for the same grade in PCGS holders, and this goes for the keys, semi-keys, and grades over 65. I have had good luck crossing NGC coins by cracking them out first, but most of these were common dates. If you look closely at the better dates in AU grades, there is simply no comparison."

 

From this thread:

LINK

[K6AZ]

Selective quote there busman. Where did I say NGC overgrades by half a point all the time? And you claimed I say it all the time, you only provided one link.

 

I stand by that statement. It is true when it comes to Morgan Dollars.

[BushMan]

Selective quote there busman. Where did I say NGC overgrades by half a point all the time? And you claimed I say it all the time, you only provided one link.

 

I stand by that statement. It is true when it comes to Morgan Dollars.

That was too easy. It was necessary to go back only 3 pages to find the above comment. I have no interest in going back into your hundreds of posts to point out the many comments about NGC. Your comments are known by many. Try as you may, you can't go over there and say one thing, only to come over here and make inconsistent, hypocritical and contrasting statements over here.

 

 

[LucyBop]

Selective quote there busman. Where did I say NGC overgrades by half a point all the time? And you claimed I say it all the time, you only provided one link.

 

I stand by that statement. It is true when it comes to Morgan Dollars.

That was too easy. It was necessary to go back only 3 pages to find the above comment. I have no interest in going back into your hundreds of posts to point out the many comments about NGC. Your comments are known by many. Try as you may, you can't go over there and say one thing, only to come over here and make inconsistent, hypocritical and contrasting statements over here.

 

 

 

We don't need this over here. Quit making these forums a bad place to be.

If you have nothing good to offer, don't come.

[K6AZ]

I see, so you are going to make accusations without proof. I went through this with you over there. You love the controversy and the us vs. them thing. I'm not going to play with you over here. Back up your statements or don't make them.

[BushMan]

We don't need this over here. Quit making these forums a bad place to be.

If you have nothing good to offer, don't come.

NGC has warned you a number of times about your baiting techniques LouSeal. You don't have veto power around here and your bossy little attitude is not appreciated. You've turned the forums across the street into a bad place and seem interested in expanding your influence. Walk across the street and continue your game-playing over there.

 

 

[Leothelion]

OK, you three need to break it off and make out..........I mean.....make up!

K6AZ you need to apologize to Lucy!

Bushman, if you don't want to confess, than that's fine! We can all very easily read everyones past posts and come to our own conclusions.

And Don, I thought you had these folks under control......you're slipping MAN!

 

Now that I got all this mess straighten out, just what the heck were we discussing here in the first place.

And just to show you have a change of hearts here, I want each of you to send 10 of your best coins to NGC if they are not in them now!

 

Cheers,

Leo

[LucyBop]

We don't need this over here. Quit making these forums a bad place to be.

If you have nothing good to offer, don't come.

NGC has warned you a number of times about your baiting techniques LouSeal. You don't have veto power around here and your bossy little attitude is not appreciated. You've turned the forums across the street into a bad place and seem interested in expanding your influence. Walk across the street and continue your game-playing over there.

 

 

 

what a liar...... NGC has warned me..... NGC moderators, you know this is a lie... This person is again bringing down the forum...

 

your the one with the strike......

 

Quit bringing down this forum, NGC moderators can search everything you have ever posted and see if its been of value....

 

Your dragging this forum down, please stop, nobody here needs it, in fact, how many do you see agreeing with you?

 

If you can't be productive for the good of the forum, then please leave, the other collectors here will do just fine....

 

You don't fool anybody.... really you don't.....

 

Sorry to the rest of the Cats, I know you all don't care for this, to you I apologize for my role in it....

[LucyBop]

K6AZ you need to apologize to Lucy

 

hey cat, K6 was addressing DCamfranklin er I mean bushytroll...

[spy88]

Total bs and completely inconsistent with your posts across the street. A hypocrite attempting to appease. You have consistently accused NGC of grading 1/2 point to a full point over that of PCGS. Try again.

NGC has warned you a number of times about your baiting techniques LouSeal. You don't have veto power around here and your bossy little attitude is not appreciated. You've turned the forums across the street into a bad place and seem interested in expanding your influence. Walk across the street and continue your game-playing over there.

 

BushMan, there is absolutely no reason for you to post such feelings and name-calling here. It just isn't tolerated. You can do all the flaming you want @ the Water Cooler or across the street, but the Coin Tangents and U.S. Coins are off-limits for these types of posts.

 

See DonHeath thread 4 threads below this one. We pride ourselves in and have saluted NGC for the separation of topical interests on this board. Please adhere to them. If YOU cannot/will not do so, YOU can jaywalk across the street and stay there.

 

David

[DonHeath]

And Don, I thought you had these folks under control......you're slipping MAN!

 

Leo, this is a tough bunch to control.They're all pretty smart about coins though.

[Leothelion]

And Don, I thought you had these folks under control......you're slipping MAN!

 

Leo, this is a tough bunch to control.They're all pretty smart about coins though.

 

A chair and whip might do it! It always worked on me!

 

Leo

[Dry]

After reading Hall's thread accross the street, I think he sounds like a very poor loser in regards to the bidd loss for PNG affiliation. He now says slab buyers should know that PNG affiliation is bought. I wonder why he didnt make this announcement when PCGS was the "official grading service"?

 

As far as leading the reader to believe some cheating went on in the bidding, it sounds like he got outsmarted by NGC at worst. With his recent business decisons, I find that that might be fairly easy to do.

 

After all that DH has said, both before and after the PNG deal, Im sure they (PNG) are feeling quite comfortable with their new business partner. Arrogance will eventually bite you in the butt. Chomp Chomp...