David Hall owes NGC an apology.

[truthteller]

Under terms of PNG contract membership, David Hall, PCGS, et al, has violated the terms. I wholehearted recommend he or an official at PCGS apologize to NGC for detrimental comments made on his website before NGC takes PCGS to arbitration. It would not be in the interest of PCGS to be booted from PNG on the acts of a sole company spokesman.

 

 

TRUTH

[MAULEMALL]

He is certainly showing a lack of class.

[truthteller]

Under article 14 of the PNG code of ethics;

 

 

14. To refrain from intentionally defaming the character of a fellow member or the quality of that member's products or services for commercial advantage.

 

 

David Hall, please apologize to NGC for the benefit of the numismatic community.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[gmarguli]

I also looked up the rules and I even saved a copy of his message should it somehow get deleted. I looked at the PNG site to see if I could find out how to report an abusive member, but didn't see it. Hopefully someone knows if a third party can report an abuse or if it has to be the victim.

[truthteller]

Any complaints? Abusers hotline:

 

Robert Brueggeman

Executive Director

3950 Concordia Lane

Fallbrook, CA 92028

Tel. (760) 728-1300

Fax (760) 728-8507

eMail: info@pngdealers.com

 

 

 

 

TRUTH

[Leothelion]

Under terms of PNG contract membership, David Hall, PCGS, et al, has violated the terms. I wholehearted recommend he or an official at PCGS apologize to NGC for detrimental comments made on his website before NGC takes PCGS to arbitration. It would not be in the interest of PCGS to be booted from PNG on the acts of a sole company spokesman.

 

 

TRUTH

 

SSSSHHHHHIIIIIITTTT!!! Dave owes thousands an apology! He's been a loudmouth

since the 1970's! How many would just love to see him get BOOTED!

 

Leo

[jom]

OK, what the hell are you people talking about?

 

jom

[gmarguli]

OK, what the hell are you people talking about?

 

jom

 

 

Where is that graemlin of smacking some sense into someone?

[IrishMike]

David Hall apologize.....now that would be

[jom]

Where is that graemlin of smacking some sense into someone?

 

OK, what the hell are YOU talking about?

 

jom

[gmarguli]

Where is that graemlin of smacking some sense into someone?

 

OK, what the hell are YOU talking about?

 

jom

 

Nevermind, I'll show you that graemlin in person at the next show.

[jom]

You are NO help...but it seems I found what I was looking for. I just saw Hall's post at PCGS which is something I missed earlier when I visited the PCGS board.

 

jom

[gmarguli]

You could have just looked one thread above or below this one and found the answer.

[jom]

You could have just looked one thread above or below this one and found the answer.

 

Let me see if I can explain this to you better, DINGUS!

 

When I saw TT's post about what Hall said I had NO IDEA what he was talking about. I knew about the PNG thing but I saw no post or news story or ANYTHING about a David Hall "reaction". Therefore, I had NO idea what you guys were talking about.

 

THEN...I went to the PCGS board a couple of time before I noticed Hall's post. My mistake for missing it I guess....

 

Quit being a dork, Marguli.

 

jom

[jom]

Now a more serious response: I didn't see the post at PCGS by Hall simply because it would NEVER occur to me he (or anyone in his type of position) would DO such a thing. Nor did I would I look for such a thread.

 

To me (IMO) Hall showed a complete lack of class for someone who is a person in that type of position with a publicly traded company. It was a TOTAL shock to me when I saw that thread earlier tonight. It's like the guy is a 15 year old kid whining to his mommy. I mean he was actually DISCLOSING the amount of the bids IN PUBLIC!!! Unbelieveable actually....

 

jom

[oreville-migration]

I would be the first one to say so on the PCGS threads.

 

Keep in mind that PCGS has made some definitive and strong moves recently as I had suggested over the past 3 years to eliminate other internal problems.

 

NGC has certainly closed in rapidly in many areas of the industry but I believe PCGS has totally awoken. This will be good for the coin collector!

 

The only reason I don't visit this site more is I still can't get the hang of the message board set up here.

 

 

Best to all.

[Oldtrader3]

HRH has edited his remarks in his original post. What did he originally say?

[spy88]

Greg, DH edited out a portion of his original statement and I for one do not remember exactly what it might have been. Please post the original so we can compare it to his edited version that is below...

 

" For the past 5 years or so, PCGS has been the "official grading service" of the Professional Numismatists Guild (PNG.) We had been paying the PNG $40,000 per year, or $120,000 per three years.

 

This month the PNG accepted bids for a three year exclusive contract to be their "official grading service." They accepted bids from two grading services, PCGS and NGC. We made the business decision to bid a lot higher than the previous contract because of the competitive positions of the two grading services involved. PCGS bid $504,000 for the three year period in the form of $60,000 a year in cash and the remaining amount in free grading slots for PNG members. NGC bid $544,000 for the three year period in the form of $65,000 a year cash the first year and small increases in that cash amount for the second and third year along with free grading slots for PNG members. The bids were supposedly "sealed."

 

So NGC outbid PCGS for the right to claim they are the "official grading service" of the PNG. NGC is also the "official grading service" of the ANA. That too is a paid endorsement, and NGC outbid PCGS on that endorsement a few years back. We are not upset that we did not get this endorsement as we bid what we thought it was worth to us, all things considered. We did however, feel that buyers of third party certified coins deserve to know that these are paid endorsements...hence this post.

 

The bottom line is that an endorsement can be bought. Respect and value in the marketplace must be earned.

 

David Hall

Evidently, what was deleted from his original post was the statement...

 

"Perhaps they feel they help the TV sales of NGC modern 70 coins."

 

Is this all that he changed/deleted?

[truthteller]

I wonder if David Hall actually got a call from Bruggeman at PNG forcing him to edit his post? Do you think DH picked up the phone and apologized to Mark Salzburg? Anyway, DH's post should not reveal the monetary terms of the PNG contract unless it were also authorized by NGC.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[gmarguli]

Greg, DH edited out a portion of his original statement and I for one do not remember exactly what it might have been. Please post the original so we can compare it to his edited version that is below...

 

Evidently, what was deleted from his original post was the statement... "Perhaps they feel they help the TV sales of NGC modern 70 coins."

 

Is this all that he changed/deleted?

 

His original post:

 

For the past 5 years or so, PCGS has been the "official grading service" of the Professional Numismatists Guild (PNG.) This month the png accepted bids for a three year exclusive contract to be their "official grading service." PCGS bid $504,000 for the three year period in the form of $60,000 a year in cash and the remaining amount in free grading slots for png members. NGC bid $544,000 for the three year period in the form of $65,000 a year cash the first year and small increases in that cash amount for the second and third year along with free grading slots for png members. The bids were supposedly "sealed."

 

 

So NGC outbid PCGS for the right to claim they are the "official grading service" of the png. NGC is also the "official grading service" of the ANA. That too is a paid endorsement, and NGC outbid PCGS on that endorsement too. Apparently NGC values these paid endorsements more than we do. Perhaps they feel they help the TV sales of NGC modern 70 coins.

 

The bottom line is that an endorsement can be bought. Respect and value in the marketplace must be earned.

 

David Hall

[truthteller]

 

 

"We are not upset that we did not get this endorsement"

 

 

 

David Hall, why post this whiney statement instead of a congratulatory post??

 

 

 

TRUTH

[rkkay-migration]

David Hall's self-serving, disingenouous comments are disgusting. If he felt collectors have the right to know these are "paid endorsements," why did he wait five years, until after PCGS lost that position, to tell everyone?

[Leothelion]

I wonder if David Hall actually got a call from Bruggeman at PNG forcing him to edit his post? Do you think DH picked up the phone and apologized to Mark Salzburg? Anyway, DH's post should not reveal the monetary terms of the PNG contract unless it were also authorized by NGC.

 

 

 

TRUTH

 

Who wants to wager Dave and Carol are working on an apology right now! Will we hear something tomorrow to that effect! I bet he got enough calls and posts about it

especially from NGC and PNG and others to warrant one. The sad thing is, it will lack credibility!

 

Leo

 

P.S. ME think I'll get some auctions up on ebay that will include the DH smear of PNG and NGC! What an opportunity!

[gmarguli]

P.S. ME think I'll get some auctions up on ebay that will include the DH smear of PNG and NGC! What an opportunity!

 

I was going to write some eBay auctions tonight to start in a few days. I was thinking of referring to the coin as slabbed by "The Ex-Official Grading Service of the PNG" and noting it was a paid endorsement.

[Leothelion]

P.S. ME think I'll get some auctions up on ebay that will include the DH smear of PNG and NGC! What an opportunity!

 

I was going to write some eBay auctions tonight to start in a few days. I was thinking of referring to the coin as slabbed by "The Ex-Official Grading Service of the PNG" and noting it was a paid endorsement.

 

Do it! And also mention that Bear is a pcgs kool aid guzzling baboon!

 

Leo

[BushMan]