NGC Named Official Grading Service of the PNG

[dena]

NGC Named Official Grading Service of the PNG

[TomB]

That's pretty cool. Will the logos be on one hologram?

[Android]

Congratulations to NGC! Has the PNG ever endorsed another grading service?

[Hoot]

Wow! Fantastic! How did you wrest that away from PCGS? Good job!

 

Hoot

[BushMan]

All those pcgs posters, blinders fully in place, are just dying over this endorsement. They try to just dismiss it. They try to make excuses for it. They attempt to imply something improper. This is just KILLING them. Pretty humerous.

[chinook]

Congrats NGC. Hard work is always rewarded.

[spy88]

Dedication to quality service, hands-down best customer support and satisfaction, adherence to given turn-around times, fair pricing and a genuine concern to do the best job possible are only some of the reasons NGC deserves this "recognition".

 

PCGS has had a VERY bumpy ride with its constituants and the public arena of numismatics for quite some time now. Heeding the concerns, opinions and ideas of these voices is what puts NGC at the top of the TPGS list!

 

Congratulations to one and all at NGC! Well deserved as it is a team effort!

 

David

[BillJones]

NGC Named Official Grading Service of the PNG

 

Good! One more thing to get David Hall & Co angry. Maybe some day they will come down off of their high horse and treat people with some respect.

[Tradedollarnut]

All those pcgs posters, blinders fully in place, are just dying over this endorsement. They try to just dismiss it. They try to make excuses for it.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the thinking here. It's a paid endorsement. PNG allowed NGC and PCGS to bid on the endorsement and NGC bid more. That's supposed to reflect differently between PCGS and NGC how exactly?

 

The fact that both companies were allowed to bid reinforces my belief that the differences between the two companies are very small.... in this instance about $5,000 per year!

[IrishMike]

yeah but TDN the hissy fit will be fun to watch, I see it already started.

[Leothelion]

Here's what so and so had to say about losing the bid to be PNG's official grading service!

 

For the past 5 years or so, PCGS has been the "official grading service" of the Professional Numismatists Guild (PNG.) This month the png accepted bids for a three year exclusive contract to be their "official grading service." PCGS bid $504,000 for the three year period in the form of $60,000 a year in cash and the remaining amount in free grading slots for png members. NGC bid $544,000 for the three year period in the form of $65,000 a year cash the first year and small increases in that cash amount for the second and third year along with free grading slots for png members. The bids were supposedly "sealed."

 

 

So NGC outbid PCGS for the right to claim they are the "official grading service" of the png. NGC is also the "official grading service" of the ANA. That too is a paid endorsement, and NGC outbid PCGS on that endorsement too. Apparently NGC values these paid endorsements more than we do. Perhaps they feel they help the TV sales of NGC modern 70 coins.

 

The bottom line is that an endorsement can be bought. Respect and value in the marketplace must be earned.

 

David Hall

 

I'm assuming that 5 years ago pcgs had to outbid NGC to earn it's rights to be PNG's official grading service for those last 5 years! If this is true.....why does a president of a TGC make moronic statements about why they lost?

 

Leo

[ccr-migration]

Here`s the link for David Halls announcement on the forums across the street.

 

NGC is now PNG "Official Grading Service"

[Leothelion]

Is it just me or do I hear some pcgs kool-aid stirring in the background!

 

Leo

[truthteller]

I truly can't believe David Hall is whining about this. I remember when he lost out to NGC on the ANA endorsement. David Hall went absolutely ballistic and began complaining about his 'open checkbook', that it wasn't fair since ANA didn't negotiate on good faith with PCGS and it would have written any size check to get the ANA endorsement. Now DH is complaining he lost out because of $5000 per year. C'mon, man. This is furtherance that PCGS cannot step up to the plate when required. Thumbs down PCGS, thumbs up NGC. Brilliant marketing strategy for NGC.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[Tradedollarnut]

PCGS bid $504,000 for the three year period in the form of $60,000 a year in cash and the remaining amount in free grading slots for png members. NGC bid $544,000 for the three year period in the form of $65,000 a year cash the first year and small increases in that cash amount for the second and third year along with free grading slots for png members.

 

Hmmmm. As owner of a construction subcontracting company that submits large bids almost daily, I'm completely amazed at the similarity of the bids. Did the PNG request them in that specific format? Seems that similarity is what's gotten HRH a bit hot....

[gmarguli]

For the past 5 years or so, PCGS has been the "official grading service" of the Professional Numismatists Guild (PNG.) This month the png accepted bids for a three year exclusive contract to be their "official grading service." PCGS bid $504,000 for the three year period in the form of $60,000 a year in cash and the remaining amount in free grading slots for png members. NGC bid $544,000 for the three year period in the form of $65,000 a year cash the first year and small increases in that cash amount for the second and third year along with free grading slots for png members. The bids were supposedly "sealed."

 

So NGC outbid PCGS for the right to claim they are the "official grading service" of the png. NGC is also the "official grading service" of the ANA. That too is a paid endorsement, and NGC outbid PCGS on that endorsement too. Apparently NGC values these paid endorsements more than we do. Perhaps they feel they help the TV sales of NGC modern 70 coins.

 

The bottom line is that an endorsement can be bought. Respect and value in the marketplace must be earned.

 

David Hall

 

 

Oh my god does Chipmunk sound extremely bitter. I love it. His stomach must be turning. Whose head will roll over this?

 

Had PCGS won Chipmunk would have been chirping about it in press releases and on his forums like it was the second coming. Now that they were outbid it's a meaningless thing. If it's so meaningless, why bid now and why bid 5 years ago? Another major public embarrassment to PCG$ and Chipmunk. The most embarrassing thing is Chipmunk opening his mouth and bashing NGC over this. A smart business person would have said nothing or made a neutral comment (i.e. our contract expired and another company valued this endorsement more than us).

 

It sounds like Chipmunk is also intimating that the bids weren't on the level with his "sealed" comment. Does he assume every business is run as unethically as his?

 

As for that comment about the endorsement helping the sales of the modern 70 coins, why does PCGS need the endorsement? Perhaps to help quite some of the talk about the unethical relationship between Chipmunk Rare Coins and Chipmunk being the head of the grading service?

[gmarguli]

PCGS bid $504,000 for the three year period in the form of $60,000 a year in cash and the remaining amount in free grading slots for png members. NGC bid $544,000 for the three year period in the form of $65,000 a year cash the first year and small increases in that cash amount for the second and third year along with free grading slots for png members.

 

Hmmmm. As owner of a construction subcontracting company that submits large bids almost daily, I'm completely amazed at the similarity of the bids. Did the PNG request them in that specific format? Seems that similarity is what's gotten HRH a bit hot....

 

Similar? There is an 8% difference. Would you consider two bids (one of them by your company) that were 8% apart to be similar? Sure they are both in the same ballpark, but 8% isn't exactly amazingly similar.

 

The PNG had to state that cash and gradings as a bid was acceptable. They probably also released the previous winning bid from 5 years ago. Both companies likely bid based on that old winning bid. Had NGC won with a bid of $505,000 then I would think something might be odd about it, but there was a $40,000 difference.

 

Now the real question, should NGC file a complaint with the PNG about Chipmunk intimating the bids weren't sealed and there was something unethical about the bidding process? I seem to remember a certain coin company owners making some comments about another giving away free Saints and they were (wrongly, IMHO) smacked by the PNG. Chipmunk clearly did something worse. I'd like to see him be forced to make a public apology.

[BushMan]

Seems that similarity is what's gotten HRH a bit hot....

WHAT? Something more like LOSING is what has him posting his whining little message. I've had youngsters lose a basketball game and show more maturity than did HisRoyalHighness. Just another nail for the coffin.

 

CONGRATS to you everyone at NGC!

[Tradedollarnut]

Greg: your bias is showing and the name calling is unbecoming. Let's discuss this rationally and leave the tirades behind.

 

You state: The PNG had to state that cash and gradings as a bid was acceptable. They probably also released the previous winning bid from 5 years ago. How do you know this is true? If it isn't true, don't the similarities strike you as odd?

 

The structure is what troubles me. You state the bids are 8% apart and use that as evidence of independence. But you completely gloss over the tremendous similarities of the bids:

 

PCGS: $60,000 per year for three years plus $324,000 in grading.

 

NGC: $65,000+/- per year for three years plus $344,000+/- in grading

 

If PNG called for the bidding to be in that specific format, then it's certainly within reason that those numbers could be independently arrived upon. However, there's no way two bids would be structured like that independently unless required by the bidding party.

[Hoot]

PCGS bid $504,000 for the three year period in the form of $60,000 a year in cash and the remaining amount in free grading slots for png members. NGC bid $544,000 for the three year period in the form of $65,000 a year cash the first year and small increases in that cash amount for the second and third year along with free grading slots for png members.

 

Hmmmm. As owner of a construction subcontracting company that submits large bids almost daily, I'm completely amazed at the similarity of the bids. Did the PNG request them in that specific format? Seems that similarity is what's gotten HRH a bit hot....

 

Similar? There is an 8% difference. Would you consider two bids (one of them by your company) that were 8% apart to be similar? Sure they are both in the same ballpark, but 8% isn't exactly amazingly similar.

 

The PNG had to state that cash and gradings as a bid was acceptable. They probably also released the previous winning bid from 5 years ago. Both companies likely bid based on that old winning bid. Had NGC won with a bid of $505,000 then I would think something might be odd about it, but there was a $40,000 difference.

 

Now the real question, should NGC file a complaint with the PNG about Chipmunk intimating the bids weren't sealed and there was something unethical about the bidding process? I seem to remember a certain coin company owners making some comments about another giving away free Saints and they were (wrongly, IMHO) smacked by the PNG. Chipmunk clearly did something worse. I'd like to see him be forced to make a public apology.

 

No doubt, there's an NGC mole at PCGS in the upper echelon of management! Start the rumor!

 

Hoot

[gmarguli]

No doubt, there's an NGC mole at PCGS in the upper echelon of management! Start the rumor!

 

Well, I don't know if they are pro-NGC, but someone high up at CU emailed me once to give me some "interesting facts" on how loved Chipmunk is.

 

As for the rumors, they've already started over there.

[TomB]

I'm surprised DH would have commented on it at all. If anything, I think a gracious, short statement would have gone much farther, in terms of looking good, than this.

[DonHeath]

It is an amazingly competitive business isn't it.

[gmarguli]

Greg: your bias is showing and the name calling is unbecoming. Let's discuss this rationally and leave the tirades behind.

 

Thanks, it's been almost a week since you called me biased. Mind if I point out that your PCGS pom-poms are waving in the wind a little too much?

 

Come on, every time *I* post something that isn't pro-PCGS you call it biased. Was I biased when I posted the same stuff a year ago or 3 years ago? The fact is that Chipmunk (yes, I will call him that. If *he* has a problem with it, let him say it to my face), is running the business without care for the outside consumer. That's what sucks. Changing grading standards, favors for certain people, lies, failure to back the grading guarantee, perception of unethical behavior, competition with dealers, etc. run rampant there. Until that changes I will have a problem with PCGS.

 

You were the one who came on the forums complaining about Chipmunk screwing you by refusing to cross your 1885 and then by screwing you with the fake set weightings. Obviously something changed. What changed? What made you so biased in favor of PCGS? A bride? Special favors? An extra registry set award? Promises to show off your set at a major show? Biased, biased, biased! See how easy it is to throw that term around. No facts, no backing, no nothing, just a thrown out word.

 

I believe I addressed his post rationally. Chipmunk is obviously VERY pissed-off that NGC got this endorsement. If it were as meaningless as he pretends it to be, then why the hissy fit over it? Why bid in the first place? Why bid last time? Why the bashing of NGC. Why make a post on it at all? Why the cheap shot about the modern 70 TV sales? Could it be that he is scared about the increasing number of moderns going to NGC? (BTW, the PCGS-only would be extremely surprised to find out that for circulation strike moderns, NGC is on par with PCGS and for the proofs, NGC currently has a tougher cam/ucan standard).

 

And if this endrosement means so little, why this: PROUD DISPLAY OF PNG ENDORSED PCGS. I'm sure that won't last long, so I took a capture of it.

 

BTW, think Chipmunk is biased?

 

 

You state: The PNG had to state that cash and gradings as a bid was acceptable. They probably also released the previous winning bid from 5 years ago. How do you know this is true? If it isn't true, don't the similarities strike you as odd?

 

The structure is what troubles me. You state the bids are 8% apart and use that as evidence of independence. But you completely gloss over the tremendous similarities of the bids:

 

PCGS: $60,000 per year for three years plus $324,000 in grading.

 

NGC: $65,000+/- per year for three years plus $344,000+/- in grading

 

If PNG called for the bidding to be in that specific format, then it's certainly within reason that those numbers could be independently arrived upon. However, there's no way two bids would be structured like that independently unless required by the bidding party.

 

The PNG had to state that bidding in that format was acceptable and/or that was the winning type bid type last time. Until I hear otherwise, I will assume that is so. Chipmunk didn't say that that it wasn't and all I got from his tirade was that the bids were close in value.

 

And I leave you with out thought. Chipmunk said "Respect and value in the marketplace must be earned.". Has he earned your respect?

[dakra]

I just read DH's comments, we definately have a sore loser across the street. Definately comments I would not expect from a President of a company.

 

"The bids were supposedly "sealed.""

Hmm, sounds as though he is a bit insecure and looking for a conspiracy theory.

 

"So NGC outbid PCGS for the right to claim they are the "official grading service" of the PNG."

 

Just like PCGS did 5 years ago?

 

"NGC is also the "official grading service" of the ANA. That too is a paid endorsement, and NGC outbid PCGS on that endorsement too."

 

Very nice of DH to point that out. Sort of like down playing something you do not have.

 

"Apparently NGC values these paid endorsements more than we do."

Apparently not if you are crying like a baby about it.

 

"Perhaps they feel they help the TV sales of NGC modern 70 coins."

Perhaps DH could walk into the grading room and make suggestions on grades.

 

"The bottom line is that an endorsement can be bought. Respect and value in the marketplace must be earned."

 

Respect? Hahaha DH has none in my book. How long is your turn around times? How many complaints have we seen on the PCGS board in the past year? Take care of your own house DH. You continue to suffer from "Foot In Mouth Disease"!

 

Dave

[MAULEMALL]

Ya know.......Ever since Rick came to the light side Mr Hall has had his panties all bunched up.

It also seems that PCGS has had a lot more problems.

 

I would like to know how NGC came up with the numbers for their bid Mr Montgomery.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Deeennnnnnaaaaaaa......

[CarlWohlforth]

I think PNG should have auctioned off the endorsement on eBay. Then we would all have witnessed the terms

[mark]

Greg:

 

When you were listing reasons why you thought TDN might have become pro-PCGS, one reason you suggested was that PCGS gave him a "A bride". Is PCGS actually this powerful???

 

Mark

[truthteller]

Rick Montgomery was the best person at PCGS as a grader and goodwill ambassador. When Rick joined NGC, it was the first thing in many brilliant moves NGC has made over the last few years. Kinda related PCGS to GM and NGC to Toyota. GM bloated, and arogant, Toyota, smart, lean and nimble.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[MAULEMALL]

I'm not sure I like agreeing with you truith.